The Phantom Menace

[Dan26]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
Well Dan its all a matter of perspective and if you continue to insist that this film has merit - then well, thats your problem.

Of course it has merit. You're the small minded fool who INSISTS that 100% of the film has no merit. Get your head back in the real world, and be objective. Your comment that The Phantom Menace doesn't have interesting or beautiful design is ludicrous and flat out wrong. Shabby set design? Hahahahaha. Not once have you acknolwedged that you might be wrong with those comments, and if you watch the movie you will see that you are? Shabby set design and crappy designing my ass!!

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
But hey - you love it and thats OK - god knows Hollywood really needs more people like you who are happy to consume without thinking too much about what you are consuming.

What an insulting comment. I never said I loved it. I said I gave it a 6.5 out of 10 and said it was average. How many times do you need that drilled into you? 100? 120?

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
Who else is gonna watch this standard of material ?

People like you and oh...I don't know...maybe a billion others.

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
Oh and btw - what about John Williams' score ? - Its just more John Williams, bland and utterly forgettable aural wallpaper.

So, now you're criticise John Williams! My God man...is this the tall poppy syndrome gone to extroadrinary extremes? He is the master movie composoer, backed up by several Academy award wins. If you don't rate Star Wars music, then you don't know much about movie music. Even if classical is not your thing, you'd have to acknowledge that the music is a strength of all four movies. It's not often the music plays such an important role. Did you know that it constantly plays for the entire 2 hours?

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
Its not personal Daniel - but your taste in films is bluddy awful.

Bullcrap. Why are my tastes awful? Because I rated it 6.5 out of 10? This is your conclusion to my generic tatse in films? The fact that I said Phamtom Menace was average with some bad bits, some good bits, but overall an enjoyable popcorn flick, makes my overall taste in films bloody awful? Just make sure I agree with you next time, because If we are of differing opinons on ONE film it seems you judge someone's overall tatse on that ONE opinion.

As far as I see it, you're the one making big sweeping statements after clearly knowing very little about the film, the actors or the set design. If you sit down and watch the film again, you will see amongst the bits you don't like, some of the redeeming features as well. The fact that you would criticise the story of the film is beyond belief. Yes, the script had some choice lines, and the acting wasn't great from SOME actors, but the story of the movie itself is strong. You seem to think it is as simple as good guys vs bad guys. You're wrong, because it's not just about that at all. I'm not asking you to change your opinion - I'm asking you to use some bloody common-sense and some objectivity. Criticsing the music, and the visuals of a Star Wars flick shows little understanding.

You've just decided to get on your high horse and criticise every single aspect of the movie. Every bit!!! What the hell are you thinking?

 

[Booze Hound]

Re "The Phantom Menace" you shouldn't forget that George Lucas was doing something very difficult in producing Part 1 of a story where Parts 4, 5 and 6 were already made and liked, to whatever extent by many people. This is a very dificult thing to do I would imaging.

I didn't see it straight away but the general view of my friends who did was that it was not at all bad. A couple thought it awful but, interestingly, both have now taken a much more positive view of it. I thought it quite good on first showing and happened to see it again on TV recently and found it very enjoyable (it is not meant to be 'deep' it's meant to be fun).

Jar Jar Binks is over the top but I found the character much less annoying 2nd time round. The acting is not of Oscar standard but better than some that claims to be (Crowe in "A Beautiful Mind" for example - that'll annoy the Antipodeans!).

Of this film had been the 1st one made of the series I think the critics would be a lot kinder to it.

I understand that Part 2 is awesome btw.

 

[speedy]

I agree it is the worst episode by far. Jar-Jar is the main culprit. I also think that knowing what lies ahead is a big handicap for the prequeals. Episode one didn't really tell us anything new about the Star Wars saga that wasn't half obvious to viewers with knowledge of the first 3 movies. Aniken's origin is the only thing I gained from it, but that was pretty cliche. The next 2 might be interesting to see how/why Aniken crosses over to the "dark side". The problem is we already know its going to happen.

I think the real excitment will be in the last 3 episodes. Just hope Mark Hamill doesn't get a gig.

He is the only thing I'd change from the original Star Wars. He's too much of a snot-nosed little sh*t to be a hero.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

If you honestly think John Williams work is that of a 'Master Composer"

then I'm sorry Daniel - I don't know why I'm wasting my time

Williams is successful because he is bland, because his music is un-adventerous, because his music doesn't upset anybody, because he is a nice guy for the Studio heads to get along with.

The fact that he has won Aacademy Awards merely confirms my critique of his work. The Academy is a very conservative body of people Dan, they don't necessarily confer awards on merit, they confer awards based more on whether a candidate toes the line or not.

Williams is a perfect example, thats why I refer to his music as aural wallpaper - its is just so utterly foirgettable, utterly bland and utterly middle-of-the-road.

Its enough to put anybody asleep.

Take away the pictures from the music and what are you left with ? - 2 plus hours of MUZAK

Can you appreciate the difference between MUZAK and MUSIC Dan ?

Enrico Morricone, Stewart Copeland, Imre Penderecki, Milos Foreman heck even good old boring Jerry Goldsmith (who has won far more Oscars than Williams btw) are all substantially better composers than Williams.

Williams get the gigs and the gongs because he doesn't push the envelope - he's just a nice, safe, boring, middle of the road film composer.

Just the way the Academy likes it.

cheers

 

[Dr Zaius]

I can only hope that sometime in the future George decides to release a "digitally directors cut remastered special never before viewed scenes edition" of TPM and removes the first 120 minutes of footage, to replace it with something watchable.

Please George, I promise I'll buy the merchandise.

 

[SydneyBomber]

Much worse the second time around - I was disappointed seeing it at the movies, but the special effects looked good if little else.

On the small screen the other night, it showed me how truly abysmal this movie was.

George, hang your head in shame.

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
If you honestly think John Williams work is that of a 'Master Composer"

then I'm sorry Daniel - I don't know why I'm wasting my time

If you can't acknolwedge that John Williams is a great movie music composer (he doesn't have to be your favourite) then you are a fool. The man has written some of the greatest movie scores in history and you know it.

Try puting on Jaws, and turning the music off. You will see how effective John Williams is. When he showed Spielberg his two note recurring theme, Spielberg thought he was joking. But, if there has ever been a theme that has better SUITED a movie and made the movie better than Jaws, then I'd like you to name that movie. The music makes the movie 20% better.

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
Williams is successful because he is bland, because his music is un-adventerous, because his music doesn't upset anybody, because he is a nice guy for the Studio heads to get along with.

God you're a softc*ck. Bland? Unadventurous? Exactly how would you define it as bland?

Try watching the opening of Star Wars as the words blast onto the screen and tell me you don't get goose bumps. That's unadventurous? His music doens't upset anybody? Well, how about Lucas hires a composer who DOES upset everybody. Gee, that would work. Idiot.

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
The fact that he has won Aacademy Awards merely confirms my critique of his work. The Academy is a very conservative body of people Dan, they don't necessarily confer awards on merit, they confer awards based more on whether a candidate toes the line or not.

I agree they often give awards to those who toe the line, but for you to have the gall to use that as a criticism of Williams is idiotic and disrespectful. Ever thought he might have actually earned those awards? The Score for the first Star Wars is one of the greatest scores in movie history.

Ever watched the original Superman? That theme IS Superman. Williams is so good at choosing the right music for the right movie and the right scene that one cannot imagine any other music respresenting Superman. Music is a strange thing. You can analyse it, but it essentially comes down to how it instinctively reacts with the listener. If it instinctively reacts successfully, then the music is good. No other MOVIE composer's music instinctively reacts with the audience as well as Williams.

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
Williams is a perfect example, thats why I refer to his music as aural wallpaper - its is just so utterly foirgettable, utterly bland and utterly middle-of-the-road.

Its enough to put anybody asleep.

You have no ability to understand movie music if you would call it "utterly forgettable" What did I warn you about your little world of black and white?

His music is not "bland." Very few scores so vividly paint musical pictures of such precision that one becoems aware of the narrative through the music alone. In Star Wars at ANY GIVEN MOMENT, there is no mistaking the desert for the detention block, or spaceprot for sandcrawler. The music tells the story. John Williams tells the story. It connects to the audience like few other composers can do.

John Williams weaves various chartacer themes and storylines into one huge musical whole. He connects them. This is called "letimotif." This means Williams can invent a theme, then play is fast, slow, soft, loud, flatten a note to make it mounful, or joyus depending on the scene in the film. Prior to the 1960's very few composers did this. It was done in the 30's by Steiner, Korngold and Waxman but, since then, it has been done sparingly. In fact, beofreStar Wars, a full symphonic score was very rare. Williams can play the Imperial March (Darth Vader's theme in The Empire Strikes Back) at different speeds, and with different instruments in different moods. This is all done to connect the viewer with the scene in the movie to help tell the stroy.

If you can't acknolwedge the Imperial March or Jaws as great pieces of music which SUIT the movie, then you are on another planet to the rest of us. I'd never sit down and listen to Jaws on CD, but when it is played during the movie, you realise just how good and EFFECTIVE Williams' is. Like I said, he doesn't have to your favourite (that's your opinion) but if you can't admit he is great at what he does, then you simply don't know very much.

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
Enrico Morricone, Stewart Copeland, Imre Penderecki, Milos Foreman heck even good old boring Jerry Goldsmith (who has won far more Oscars than Williams btw) are all substantially better composers than Williams.

Perhaps you'd care to explain why. None of them use letimotif to the extent or effect of John Williams, and none of them have created music as frequently as Williams that is as famous or as well-known by those who listen to it. Inevitably, the people that will decide whether they like the music will be those who sit and listen to it, and John Williams has created more signature movie themes and "spine tingling" music of film than any other compser in movie histroy. Your exaggerations are childish. "Subsatantaily better" Hahahahahahahahahaha!!! Substantially? Gee, the opening music when the Star Wars words appear on the screen is so poor. Gee, Jaws really doesn't suit the movie does it? :rolleyes Idiot.

Any chance of saying, "John Williams is a magnificent compser who is not my favourite, but he is obviosuly a fine musician who has created some great scores"? Any chance of saying something a little objective like that?

Instead of saying somethign comendable like that, you come up with the absolute drivle and crap that you posted. That's all it is BSA - drivel and crap.

Nice of you to cowardly dodge my other post by the way. Still waiting on hearing which of the set designs were shabby. Still waiting to hear on which of the academy award nominated costume designs were poor. Hahahahahahahahaha.

 

[Asgardian]

Originally posted by Dan26

Try puting on Jaws, and turning the music off. You will see how effective John Williams is. When he showed Spielberg his two note recurring theme, Spielberg thought he was joking. But, if there has ever been a theme that has better SUITED a movie and made the movie better than Jaws, then I'd like you to name that movie. The music makes the movie 20% better.

In my humble uneducated opinion, the fusion of music and art achieved by Sergio Leone & Ennio Morricone, on the "Good the Bad and the Ugly" & "Once Upon a Time in the West" works the best on all levels. These guys wove a web where each component increases the value of all other components.

Then if you'd prefer to just go to a single musical piece which represents a film, how on earth could you go past "Singin' in the Rain"?

 

[daicos4ever]

Originally posted by Nerd Police



Please pull over to the side of the road

Whose paying for all these new police departments?

 

[Nerd Police]

Originally posted by daicos4ever


Whose paying for all these new police departments?

your taxes!!!

Wait till you see the donut bill

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
If you honestly think John Williams work is that of a 'Master Composer"

then I'm sorry Daniel - I don't know why I'm wasting my time

Williams is successful because he is bland, because his music is un-adventerous, because his music doesn't upset anybody, because he is a nice guy for the Studio heads to get along with.

The fact that he has won Aacademy Awards merely confirms my critique of his work. The Academy is a very conservative body of people Dan, they don't necessarily confer awards on merit, they confer awards based more on whether a candidate toes the line or not.

Williams is a perfect example, thats why I refer to his music as aural wallpaper - its is just so utterly foirgettable, utterly bland and utterly middle-of-the-road.

Its enough to put anybody asleep.

Take away the pictures from the music and what are you left with ? - 2 plus hours of MUZAK

Can you appreciate the difference between MUZAK and MUSIC Dan ?

Enrico Morricone, Stewart Copeland, Imre Penderecki, Milos Foreman heck even good old boring Jerry Goldsmith (who has won far more Oscars than Williams btw) are all substantially better composers than Williams.

Williams get the gigs and the gongs because he doesn't push the envelope - he's just a nice, safe, boring, middle of the road film composer.

Just the way the Academy likes it.

cheers

This is just wrong BSA....

Williams is responsible for some of the most recognized scores in the world today. I will say a couple a movies and the theme instantly pops into your head....Star Wars.....Jurassic Park....Schindlers List.....Indiana Jones.....all classics. IMO the only 2 guys that come close to John Williams is Hans Zimmer and James Horner.

 

[Asgardian]

Originally posted by Asgardian


In my humble uneducated opinion, the fusion of music and art achieved by Sergio Leone & Ennio Morricone, on the "Good the Bad and the Ugly" & "Once Upon a Time in the West" works the best on all levels. These guys wove a web where each component increases the value of all other components.

Then if you'd prefer to just go to a single musical piece which represents a film, how on earth could you go past "Singin' in the Rain"?

Comon Dan26, you issued a challenge, I answered it, now you've gone and disappeared from this thread, what gives?

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by Asgardian


In my humble uneducated opinion, the fusion of music and art achieved by Sergio Leone & Ennio Morricone, on the "Good the Bad and the Ugly" & "Once Upon a Time in the West" works the best on all levels. These guys wove a web where each component increases the value of all other components.

Then if you'd prefer to just go to a single musical piece which represents a film, how on earth could you go past "Singin' in the Rain"?

Chris, whetehr a score works well is up to opinion, and the movies you mentioend all have scores which suit the film (although Singin' in the rain is more the words than the tune that suits) I agree with you about the score"The Good the bad and the Ugly" and it suits the film

But if there has been a movie score that better suits a film than Jaws, then I'm yet to see it. That music MAKES the film. Spielberg showed the execs the film in 1974 before Williams had added his score, and they were non-plussed about it. Add the score to the film, and the entire dynamic of the movie changes.

 

[Asgardian]

That's my point Dan, "The Good, The Bad and the Ugly" plus "Once Upon a Time in the West" did not need outstanding scores to be great movies.
The scores for those two movies did not need outstanding movies to be great scores.
Each is capable of standing alone and be considered leaders in their genre.

BUT

When you combine the two movies with their individual scores, it becomes a fusion of greatness.
In my opinion, "Once Upon a Time in the West" is just ever so slightly the better, so I'll focus on that movie.
The movie did not need a tremendous score to be an absolute winner, yet it got the best score in movie history, IMO.
The score is instantly recognisable as a stand alone, yet it works in conjunction with the movie it is almost symbiosis in action.
Whereas Jaws works probably because of the score.

Just a question Dan, have you seen "Once Upon a Time in the West"?

 

[Dan26]

No, I havn't seen it Chris, but I'm searching for the score now to download.

I wouldn't say Jaws doesn't work without the score - it just works better with it - something BSA clearly doesn't understand.

 

[Rohan_]

This is more proof that dorks still exist.

 

[Asgardian]

If you get the chance, grab it from your local video shop Dan, I don't believe it's out on DVD yet, just wait till you see Henry Fonda's performance, absolutely breathtaking.

Also if you can, borrow "Once Upon a Time in America", again by Leone and Morricone, it is a haunting tale, one you need to concentrate on, the censors and studio exec's have done it no favours by way of cuts.

Hence I believe "Once Upon a Time in the West" is slightly superior

 

[Asgardian]

Originally posted by Rohan_
This is more proof that dorks still exist.

Just goes to show that no matter how much education and degrees that you buy, if it never sinks in, it was wasted money

 

[Bulldog1954]

Originally posted by Rohan_
This is more proof that dorks still exist.

You took the words from my mouth

 

[Bluey]

Rohan, BD1954 - do not troll. I am getting sick of it. Contribute to the conversation or keep out of it.

 

[PeteLX]

Hmm. After seeing Episode 4 last night, my thoughts on annoying characters has changed.

A new question: Is C Threepio more or less annoying than Jar Jar? I think more.