Mega Thread The Random Thoughts Thread Part 1

[tribey]

Any worthwhile technology comes with teething problems and requires a few decades of trial, error and evolution before becoming fully fleshed out, but Uncle Tone's and Cousin Joe's shameless brazzers blowjibber of the coal industry would've seen us in bed with Big Horse & Cart at the turn of the century.

 

[HaroldOliver]

Incorrect. Renewables are far too intermittent as a power supply.
France and Germany have dumped Nuclear in favour of renewables and as a result their usage of coal plants has gone through the roof to cover for times of low generation from renewables.
Renewables are only feasible with energy storage, and at the moment the lead acid batteries are by far the most advanced energy storage method and they have environmental problems of their own and aren't economically feasible for large scale storage.

In the 50s/60s Australia lead the way in electronics technology and manufacturing because we invested heavily in these areas.
For me, the key to MrSpeaker's post was the phrase 'invest heavily'.

 

[tribey]

In the 50s/60s Australia lead the way in electronics technology and manufacturing because we invested heavily in these areas.
For me, the key to the Speaker's post was the phrase 'invest heavily'.

1. Gut the CSIRO's funding
2. Pledge $4,000,000 to a Dutch climate change denialist
3. ?????
4. STRAYA!

 

[Chrizzt]

Denmark can operate on100% wind power*. We have wind.

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...wind-windfarm-power-exceed-electricity-demand

Australia gets more sun than France or Germany obviously

Yep, SA has had 100% of its demand met by wind power on a single day too.
However even though wind and solar can account for nearly 40% of generation capacity in SA, it often falls to supply rates of only 7-10% at times of low wind and at night.
This is an important point due to the high demand during summer nights when people keep their air conditioners on overnight.
SA (and Aus in general) have done a very good job of supporting renewables, however they are only part of the answer.

 

[StuMan]

And... scene.

Why is Kane Mitchell beating up turtles?


But seriously, I love that movie.

 

[philthy05]

The thing I've never understood ....

Is if you can put solar panels on a roof of a house , and have it supply enough electricity for that house and more back into the system while you have daylight ....

Why the hell do I work in a factory that must use more electricity then 2000 homes ( I kid you not , one machine has 16 motors on it , and we have plenty of those. and a furnace with electrical elements that runs 18 hrs of the day and heats up to like 600 degrees , and this place runs at its peak during sunlight....but can't put solar panels on its literal thousands of square metres roof space?

I mean I understand that the problem with house solar panels is it doesn't work at night , when there can be high usage as people are home , but in a factory that pretty much runs almost entirely in sunlight hours and a minimal crew when not ?

How can solar panels on a house roof to supplement the tiniest fraction of our carbon emissions and power usage be cost economical and environmentally beneficial but not have the same or greater benefits on our factories that would far greater outweigh energy requirements of a hundred houses. Solar panels on the spacious roof of your neighbourhood Woolworths / Coles / food land would probably save more electricity then putting solar panels on half their customers houses. So it kind of seems strange to me we were funding and encouraging people to put a few up on their houses here and there....


And don't get me started on water in our industrial sector . We talk about water shortages and droughts , walk into most factories and watch more water flush down the drain then your house would use in year.


It's bloody crazy ... If you wanna change how Australia uses electricity and water , don't target houses and tell us if we all (22million) save 1% that will mean X amount over the entire population over a year. Two industrial factories could make that same saving with some smart planning...

 

[Chrizzt]

The thing I've never understood ....

Is if you can put solar panels on a roof of a house , and have it supply enough electricity for that house and more back into the system while you have daylight ....

Why the hell do I work in a factory that must use more electricity then 2000 homes ( I kid you not , one machine has 16 motors on it , and we have plenty of those. and a furnace with electrical elements that runs 18 hrs of the day and heats up to like 600 degrees , and this place runs at its peak during sunlight....but can't put solar panels on its literal thousands of square metres roof space?

Probably because its a high capex cost that could take a long time to make the money back on. Companies are usually quite adverse to those sorts of investments that take longer than 5 years to see a return on.
Additionally, it could be a current issue with the equipment requiring a larger current than can be provided by solar panels?

 

[philthy05]

Probably because its a high capex cost that could take a long time to make the money back on. Companies are usually quite adverse to those sorts of investments that take longer than 5 years to see a return on.
Additionally, it could be a current issue with the equipment requiring a larger current than can be provided by solar panels?

Yeah I know my work apparently took one look at it and said nah. They did install rainwater tanks 5 years ago. If they had done that like 20 years ago when the building was built I wonder what that adds up to?

 

[CharlieKelly]

great story over on Reddit

guy on his first holiday in New York happens to bump into Brad Ebert and his new wife in a small bar that only fits about 20 people, shouts them drinks all night

 

[edgie]

I skipped a page or 2 so forgive me if it already addressed, but migrants are most definitely taking a lot of skilled labour jobs, not necessarily from applicable local workers, but from the next generation, as not as many are being trained up to work these areas because of the "mature age talent", to use a sporting analogy.

 

[El Zorro]

Incorrect. Renewables are far too intermittent as a power supply.
France and Germany have dumped Nuclear in favour of renewables and as a result their usage of coal plants has gone through the roof to cover for times of low generation from renewables.
Renewables are only feasible with energy storage, and at the moment the lead acid batteries are by far the most advanced energy storage method and they have environmental problems of their own and aren't economically feasible for large scale storage.

Wow, so much bullshit. It's blinding!

 

[Chrizzt]

Wow, so much bullshit. It's blinding!

Yet you fail to point out a single thing that is incorrect with what I said.

 

[LukeSA]

Incorrect. Renewables are far too intermittent as a power supply.
France and Germany have dumped Nuclear in favour of renewables and as a result their usage of coal plants has gone through the roof to cover for times of low generation from renewables.
Renewables are only feasible with energy storage, and at the moment the lead acid batteries are by far the most advanced energy storage method and they have environmental problems of their own and aren't economically feasible for large scale storage.

Tesla are coming are releasing their powerwall sometime soon which uses lithium ion batteries to store power generated from solar panels. It's not much at the moment but it does open the door to further research on more efficient batteries and energy storage.

ATM... nuclear is the only option for large scale power generation that isn't based on coal, Australia would be a prime candidate for nuclear power, we live in a geologically stable area so accidents like fukushima aren't going to happen and we will have access to the latest designed plants. Scientists are even developing a method that any waste products from a nuclear plant can be turned into glass which can be stored safely without the risk of containments leaking into the environment.

Fusion power is never likely to happen.

 

[Forzaport]

The thing I've never understood ....

Is if you can put solar panels on a roof of a house , and have it supply enough electricity for that house and more back into the system while you have daylight ....

Why the hell do I work in a factory that must use more electricity then 2000 homes ( I kid you not , one machine has 16 motors on it , and we have plenty of those. and a furnace with electrical elements that runs 18 hrs of the day and heats up to like 600 degrees , and this place runs at its peak during sunlight....but can't put solar panels on its literal thousands of square metres roof space?

I mean I understand that the problem with house solar panels is it doesn't work at night , when there can be high usage as people are home , but in a factory that pretty much runs almost entirely in sunlight hours and a minimal crew when not ?

How can solar panels on a house roof to supplement the tiniest fraction of our carbon emissions and power usage be cost economical and environmentally beneficial but not have the same or greater benefits on our factories that would far greater outweigh energy requirements of a hundred houses. Solar panels on the spacious roof of your neighbourhood Woolworths / Coles / food land would probably save more electricity then putting solar panels on half their customers houses. So it kind of seems strange to me we were funding and encouraging people to put a few up on their houses here and there....


And don't get me started on water in our industrial sector . We talk about water shortages and droughts , walk into most factories and watch more water flush down the drain then your house would use in year.


It's bloody crazy ... If you wanna change how Australia uses electricity and water , don't target houses and tell us if we all (22million) save 1% that will mean X amount over the entire population over a year. Two industrial factories could make that same saving with some smart planning...

It has happened but there are few examples. CSIRO have done it at a couple of sites resulting in savings of hundreds of thousands of dollars annually. I think there are a couple of private enterprises that have done similar but uptake at the moment is still low. There is a large capital outlay, not to mention several factories would get their power at reduced rates to domestic consumers and may lose that discount if they installed solar.

 

[Chrizzt]

Tesla are coming are releasing their powerwall sometime soon which uses lithium ion batteries to store power generated from solar panels. It's not much at the moment but it does open the door to further research on more efficient batteries and energy storage.

ATM... nuclear is the only option for large scale power generation that isn't based on coal, Australia would be a prime candidate for nuclear power, we live in a geologically stable area so accidents like fukushima aren't going to happen and we will have access to the latest designed plants. Scientists are even developing a method that any waste products from a nuclear plant can be turned into glass which can be stored safely without the risk of containments leaking into the environment.

Fusion power is never likely to happen.

NY times labelled the Powerwall as "another rich man's gadget". They're a step in the right direction but they don't look likely to be economically feasible anytime soon. Flow cell batteries seem the more likely technology for battery storage, although they are very new and have a long way to go to compete with lead acid.

Vitrification (turning waste into glass) has been available for a long time now, as a matter of fact Australia was a pioneer in imobilising nuclear waste with synroc technology.

Fusion power will happen, it's just that it's at least 30 years away from commerical realisation.

 

[edgie]

My point being we are subsidizing the destruction of our environment and people are worried about the cost of saving others from war torn countries.

Devils advocate here, but basically mining subsidies are so generous in Aus because Mining so damn expensive, compared to elsewhere in the world and what costs of mining represents relatively in those countries to other industries.

It's one of a few industries that is over unionised in the current day and age, and I'm a very pro union's lefty for the most part.

But mining and car manufacturing hires people.

Or something.

And that's another one, albeit one treated a bit differently by the distributors of the tax payers $$$ by the men with blue ties.

 

[edgie]

We could do all of those and more if we wanted to.

- We have huge amounts of land to settle people in
- Australia produces enough everything to feed every one of those people if we prioritised it.
- We have the best conditions for solar power in the world, water falls from the sky.

A place to call home, enough food to live on, and a bit of opportunity. If thats all we promised those refugees, they'd take it, I'm sure.

Definitely something I'm no expert on, but the amount of land and the infrastructure required to build a community isn't going to magically appear.

Apart from Antartica, we have the least population density by some margin in the world, our population is so sparse across a huge island continent, and there just isn't the taxes rolling in to properly provide these services without some serious rearranging. There's already established communities that are given nothing and the aboriginal settlements are being closed down. Unless these refugees are going to fund and build a community themselves, I don't see it being feasible.

 

[tribey]

Definitely something I'm no expert on, but the amount of land and the infrastructure required to build a community isn't going to magically appear.

Apart from Antartica, we have the least population density by some margin in the world, our population is so sparse across a huge island continent, and there just isn't the taxes rolling in to properly provide these services without some serious rearranging. There's already established communities that are given nothing and the aboriginal settlements are being closed down. Unless these refugees are going to fund and build a community themselves, I don't see it being feasible.

Pissing the mining boom away so middle class people who pay tax could get Centrelink benefits because they pay tax wasn't the brightest thing the übereconomic rockstars ever did

 

[_VXV]

Pissing the mining boom away so middle class people who pay tax could get Centrelink benefits because they pay tax wasn't the brightest thing the übereconomic rockstars ever did

Should of been spent on high speed rail or some other massive scale project. Rudd giving the people what they "need".
Rucci level campaigner.

 

[El Zorro]

Should of been spent on high speed rail or some other massive scale project. Rudd giving the people what they "need".
Rucci level campaigner.

I think he was referring to Howard and Costello's middle class welfare.

 

[Steve Dore]

Tony Abbott slashed the Renewable Energy Target because wind farms are "visually awful" and "noisy".



Coal fired power stations on the other hand are a thing of great aesthetic value and completely silent.



Not to mention those beautiful coal mines.

 

[edgie]

I think he was referring to Howard and Costello's middle class welfare.

how I interpreted it

 

[_VXV]

I think he was referring to Howard and Costello's middle class welfare.

That too.

 

[Portia]

Definitely something I'm no expert on, but the amount of land and the infrastructure required to build a community isn't going to magically appear.

Apart from Antartica, we have the least population density by some margin in the world, our population is so sparse across a huge island continent, and there just isn't the taxes rolling in to properly provide these services without some serious rearranging. There's already established communities that are given nothing and the aboriginal settlements are being closed down. Unless these refugees are going to fund and build a community themselves, I don't see it being feasible.

1. Regional populations are in decline; populations for which infrastructure already exists.
2. You don't need to put refugees out where Aboriginal communities have been set up, country NSW/QLD/VIC/SA has plenty of places. I dare say there's a good bit of room around Casterton for example.
3. Snowy Mountain River Scheme was probably a stopover for more than one Port board poster's ancestors, or another regional settlement initiative. Most of Australia has operated under such scheme, especially the creation of Adelaide from nothing. Migrants will build their own homes if they have the chance.
4. We are probably due for some serious rearranging; if we want to live in a peaceful country, change is something that we must choose to initiate, rather than just wait for conditions to deteriorate until you have war or revolution.

 

[edgie]

There's 1100 unoccupied homes in Broken Hill, but ain't nobody renting them for less than 300pw, or selling for less than 300k. There's room and there's infrastructure, **** there's even then oldest inland Mosque in Australia, but houses will still need to be built.