Mega Thread The Random Thoughts Thread Part 1

[chiwigi]

It's not the old days anymore, just can't live in a tin shack. Dwellings have to meet code these days which costs money and expertise otherwise anyone living there will be evicted. You need professions and trade people and materials, all of which costs money. Are the migrants pockets well lined?

We spend far more on keeping them out than it would cost to let them in and work. It's a political exercise not an economic one.

 

[edgie]

We spend far more on keeping them out than it would cost to let them in and work. It's a political exercise not an economic one.

I'm aware of this, I just don't think it is as simple as let them and she'll be right, and I seriously doubt the competence of all levels of Government in Australia in managing any proposed refugee intake effectively.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

whaddaya mean

Tongue in cheek m8, just funny how not liking star wars, foo fighters & wolfmother translates to Beer Cans hates everyfink.... jeez I'm getting sensitive somebody stop me

 

[StuMan]

Tongue in cheek m8, just funny how not liking star wars, foo fighters & wolfmother translates to Beer Cans hates everyfink.... jeez I'm getting sensitive somebody stop me

Haha, it was said in jest dude.
Sorry if I did offend you though, it was not my intention.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

Haha, it was said in jest dude.
Sorry if I did offend you though, it was not my intention.

It's been an emotional day I've run out of japanese peanut crackers from costco

 

[Contested Marx]

We spend far more on keeping them out than it would cost to let them in and work. It's a political exercise not an economic one.

Sharia law paranoia guaranteed

 

[Portia]

It's not the old days anymore, just can't live in a tin shack. Dwellings have to meet code these days which costs money and expertise otherwise anyone living there will be evicted. You need professions and trade people and materials, all of which costs money. Are the migrants pockets well lined?

I think its a bit odd to think that every refugee has no useful skills whatsoever. Electricians and plumbers are as likely to be fleeing as anyone else, and the less `first world' the country is, the more likely it is that people have practical vocational skills.

They also won't need to meet the requirements of the leafy suburbs of Adelaide in building their houses either. A fair chunk of Australia live in shitty little units.

 

[edgie]

I think its a bit odd to think that every refugee has no useful skills whatsoever. Electricians and plumbers are as likely to be fleeing as anyone else, and the less `first world' the country is, the more likely it is that people have practical vocational skills.

They also won't need to meet the requirements of the leafy suburbs of Adelaide in building their houses either. A fair chunk of Australia live in shitty little units.

I'm not saying there's no skills, I'm saying they won't be licensed to work those jobs in Australia, not quickly anyway. Practical vocation skills doesn't always hold up when the council building inspector is going over the housing plans and explains that the ceilings are too low, or the walls too thin.

 

[I Dont Care]

Being descended from wartime refugees myself, I have mixed feelings on the whole subject. A lot of these people come from situations we wouldn't wish on anybody and just need a hand up. I feel though that the really needy don't even make it to refugee status, only those with money make the trip

 

[Portia]

Yeah I'm going to stop discussing this with you edgie, because you're being reduced down to the most finicky possible reasons not to help people and families whose lives are on the line; as far as I can tell, the jist of your reduced argument is `if we can't do it instantly in ten minutes, we shouldn't try'.

Yeah, it might take time for everything to be perfect & working (like any major project), but if we don't start projects like this, we won't finish them either, which I guess is what you're angling for - its more comforting to blame logistics than to acknowledge what shit humans many Australians are on these issues.

 

[Dylan8]

Being descended from wartime refugees myself, I have mixed feelings on the whole subject. A lot of these people come from situations we wouldn't wish on anybody and just need a hand up. I feel though that the really needy don't even make it to refugee status, only those with money make the trip

Refugees aren't hobos, they're people escaping persecution. They give up literally every possession they own and give all of their money to people smugglers in order to get them out of the country.

 

[Lagooner]

Yeah I'm going to stop discussing this with you edgie, because you're being reduced down to the most finicky possible reasons not to help people and families whose lives are on the line; as far as I can tell, the jist of your reduced argument is `if we can't do it instantly in ten minutes, we shouldn't try'.

Yeah, it might take time for everything to be perfect & working (like any major project), but if we don't start projects like this, we won't finish them either, which I guess is what you're angling for - its more comforting to blame logistics than to acknowledge what shit humans many Australians are on these issues.

There are a lot of shit humans out there. I think the saddest part in Australia's case though is that we could be making a difference to a relatively small amount of people, but we're not. We have the resources, but we choose not to help because we're greedy. We've got it good and we don't want to share it.

We know it too. I reckon if you asked every Australian if they would do a random swap with anyone on the planet, knowing that they could become a multi-millionaire in the Italian Riviera or one of millions in an Indian slum, that no one would do the deal. It's almost impossible for any of us to accept the wager and improve our standard of living, so we all know that we've been kissed on the doodle.

And yet somehow our society has come to this conclusion that helping out a few thousand refugees is going to send us to Baghdad in a hand basket. Bullshit. People are just greedy and they would rather spend $10 a day on lattes and friand cakes than contribute a few tax dollars to help out their fellow humans.

 

[El_Scorcho]

It is obscenely more expensive to detain refugees in Nauru than it is to process them in the community, and the outcomes are far, far worse. For everyone.

It's both the major parties fostering xenophobia and then creating a super expensive solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The fact that this is so politicised is sickening.

The r*ped pregnant refugee being sent back to Nauru to send a message was about as embarrassed as I've ever been to be Australian. What a disgusting, disgraceful thing for Dutton and the other subhuman garbage working in that department to have done.

 

[Dylan8]

To put things into perspective

Lebanon and Turkey have taken in a total of 3.3 million Syrian refugees alone. We've accepted what like 14,000?

 

[I Dont Care]

Refugees aren't hobos, they're people escaping persecution. They give up literally every possession they own and give all of their money to people smugglers in order to get them out of the country.

Don't know where the 'hobo' description developed from? As I wrote, they generally have money. My family who were refugees had money, they escaped the Nazi's and the Communists to get to Australia...my father was definitely not a hobo, nor was my grandfather

 

[Dylan8]

Don't know where the 'hobo' description developed from? As I wrote, they generally have money. My family who were refugees had money, they escaped the Nazi's and the Communists to get to Australia...my father was definitely not a hobo, nor was my grandfather

What I'm saying is that people with money - money they've raised through giving up everything they own - are entirely deserving of the refugee status bestowed upon them.

 

[Lagooner]

It is obscenely more expensive to detain refugees in Nauru than it is to process them in the community, and the outcomes are far, far worse. For everyone.

It's both the major parties fostering xenophobia and then creating a super expensive solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The fact that this is so politicised is sickening.

The r*ped pregnant refugee being sent back to Nauru to send a message was about as embarrassed as I've ever been to be Australian. What a disgusting, disgraceful thing for Dutton and the other subhuman garbage working in that department to have done.

In 30 years time this shit will be viewed in the same way that we think about the Stolen Generation today.

All while committing some other atrocity no doubt.

 

[I Dont Care]

What I'm saying is that people with money - money they've raised through giving up everything they own - are entirely deserving of the refugee status bestowed upon them.

Yes. But so are those who can't...and that is the conundrum

 

[philthy05]

Like most people the first thing I would think about when refugees come to mind would be but

A) we have problems already here we are not fixing

B ) what about my job ?

C) what about the Australian way?


And then I wake up and realise

A) the liberal governments defense expenditure will be $160 billion dollars for the next 3/4 years.

Think about that for a moment. 1 billion is 1000 million. That is $160,000,000,000 if you want it in digits.

That could employ 62,000 people for 50 years on my salary. That is absolutely un-friggin believable . They just piss away money because people are stupid. If our smart people outnumbered the idiots we would not have a government that could do something like that.

If we had a functioning government that wanted to fix any problem we have in Australia I think we could do it.


B ) there are already unemployed Australians who could take my job , and foreigners already in the country looking for work , I have my job because I'm good at it ..


C) just look around these bloody forums if you wanna talk about the 'Australian ' way. What the shit is that anymore anyway. World wide media sees everyone sharing everything , and I'm not sure too many Australians from a recent time gone by would recognise it.

Change is happening all the time , Australia and the world has changed since I was a kid .

It's gonna continue to change whether we take any action or not , at least we might as well try to do some actions we can be proud of and see what change comes from that. Maybe positive , maybe some negative , but shit is gonna change one way or the other.

 

[I Dont Care]

Like most people the first thing I would think about when refugees come to mind would be but

A) we have problems already here we are not fixing

B ) what about my job ?

C) what about the Australian way?


And then I wake up and realise

A) the liberal governments defense expenditure will be $160 billion dollars for the next 3/4 years.

Think about that for a moment. 1 billion is 1000 million. That is $160,000,000,000 if you want it in digits.

That could employ 62,000 people for 50 years on my salary. That is absolutely un-friggin believable . They just piss away money because people are stupid. If our smart people outnumbered the idiots we would not have a government that could do something like that.

If we had a functioning government that wanted to fix any problem we have in Australia I think we could do it.


B ) there are already unemployed Australians who could take my job , and foreigners already in the country looking for work , I have my job because I'm good at it ..


C) just look around these bloody forums if you wanna talk about the 'Australian ' way. What the shit is that anymore anyway. World wide media sees everyone sharing everything , and I'm not sure too many Australians from a recent time gone by would recognise it.

Change is happening all the time , Australia and the world has changed since I was a kid .

It's gonna continue to change whether we take any action or not , at least we might as well try to do some actions we can be proud of and see what change comes from that. Maybe positive , maybe some negative , but shit is gonna change one way or the other.

The 160 billion is not just thrown away though...it does employ a lot of people. The 'Australian way' I was brought up on was to help others, whether it was someone whose car had broken down, or some poor bugger from the other side of the globe whose country had been wrecked to pieces. We are blessed in this country, and there is a lot to share, but we really have to do something about our water

 

[philthy05]

The 160 billion is not just thrown away though...it does employ a lot of people. The 'Australian way' I was brought up on was to help others, whether it was someone whose car had broken down, or some poor bugger from the other side of the globe whose country had been wrecked to pieces. We are blessed in this country, and there is a lot to share, but we really have to do something about our water

our Australian defense force stands at around 80,000 people.

There would be other jobs created by that although a lot of the money would also be sent overseas for machines and parts etc.

As I said , 160 billion could employ 62,000 people for 50 years at my pay rate , but for Australian defense force it maintains 80,000 people for 3/4 years?

That ridiculous.

What has that billions of dollars gotten us in the past ? A bunch of leaky subs , a handful of helicopters that were obsolete by the time they were delivered , a couple of warships we parade up and down the coast ironically watching people drown in leaky boats. Fighting some wars in some place nine of us have ever been , because some American told us there were wmds there that never actually existed.

The best thing I've ever seen the defense force do was help the locals after the tradegy in East Timor. Using our defense force to help people in terrible situations is a great idea. We have all these talented , fit and highly trained individuals in a massive work force and most of the time they are just parading about or going to fight some guys in some distant place. Imagine all the lives 80,000 trained and equipped people could save if that was their mandate.

Australian rescue force.

Do it with half the budget as we dont need no friggin helicopters with laser targeting systems and spend the 80 billions dollars over 3/4 years on hospitals , medical care , our pensioners , funding schools , medical research , science and innovation , infrastructure and yeah maybe Bringing in a few refugees won't seem like such a bad idea. Between the extra jobs that 80 billion over the next few years could create , the jobs they create themselves as they want for housing , food , travel etc maybe even some of them want to join the new Australian rescue force ? ....

 

[demon inda sack]

Well written philthy05.
If we want to look at some of our biggest waste of money look no further than our prison system, 600 dollars a day per prisoner it is costing the Australian tax payer, there are currently 33000 people incarcerated that's 7,227,000,000 a year. Our prisons offer no re-education and in turn it becomes a revolving door to educate and influence future criminals. It's obviously important to try and fix the major cause of crime (poverty) but if we are looking at dollars fixing our prison system is of major importance.

Same but different, legalize euthanasia. Enough said.

 

[philthy05]

To give you an idea on what that 80 billion I suggested cutting would buy you ,

It would buy you 5 new state of the art hospitals around Australia (2.1 bil each to 10.6 billion)

5 new Adelaide ovals (600mil each to 3.6 billion)

You couldve forked out the 200k a year loss the mallala hospital was taking and kept its 42 employees in a job


Spend 5 billion upgrading schools

Employ 15,000 teachers over the next four years (5 billion )

Employ 15,000 extra nurses over the next four years (5 billion)

Employ 15,000 extra police and emergency services over the next 4 years (5 billion)

Extra 5 billion of funding to emergency services



I'm literally now running out of ways to spend 80 billion dollars.

I'm up to around 39 billion.

I've created 35,000 new jobs and countless more to building companies and countless more jobs that would be created by people newly flushed spending money etc.


And shit all of that money has had to go to Germany for some laser targeting system , or China for some parts , or anywhere else.

 

[I Dont Care]

What has that billions of dollars gotten us in the past ? A bunch of leaky subs

Those 'leaky subs' injected a massive amount into the South Australian economy though, hell I even did some of the manufacturing work myself. Defence contracts like the motor industry keep a lot of people employed...a lot more than the 80,000 defence workforce you mentioned. Not saying your opinion is wrong, but you have to paint the whole picture not just what you are looking at

 

[demon inda sack]

Those 'leaky subs' injected a massive amount into the South Australian economy though, hell I even did some of the manufacturing work myself. Defence contracts like the motor industry keep a lot of people employed...a lot more than the 80,000 defence workforce you mentioned. Not saying your opinion is wrong, but you have to paint the whole picture not just what you are looking at

That money isn't disappearing into thin air. philthy's creating many more jobs that have actual social impact.