Opinion The Rebuild Thread

[HARKER]

Was anyone else slightly concerned with what Malthouse said on Footy Classified last night about wanting to have another trade/draft period like we did last year, alluding to the fact that we will go after more players like Everitt, Docherty, Daisy rather than trying to accumulate high draft picks which would be my preferred option.

Not at all.

Malthouse knows the types he wants and a blend of both would/could be the only way to go.

There's no way we're just going to bring in ten 18y.o. kids. The mix has to be right...ages...types..characters etc etc

 

[RedFury]

A family member of mine use to work at the club (they left the club January this year), and often commented on it's poor culture, not just the player culture, but the general workplace culture as well. The players are treated like gods, regular staff (admin, membership assistants) can't even say hi to them (it's actually a rule). This is the first problem, the players are just one part of a much bigger team within the club, but they are not taught that when they walk in the door for the 1st time. I was at the Westpac center once, God help me know lol, and Chris Dawes walked in, smiled at the receptionist and said good morning Sandra (or whatever her name was). There was a sense of unity, everyone in the club is part of the team, not just the players.

I find parts of that very difficult to believe yet extremely disturbing if true.

 

[The Edukator]

Was anyone else slightly concerned with what Malthouse said on Footy Classified last night about wanting to have another trade/draft period like we did last year, alluding to the fact that we will go after more players like Everitt, Docherty, Daisy rather than trying to accumulate high draft picks which would be my preferred option.

If they come from the GCS and GWS then no worries

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Not at all.

Malthouse knows the types he wants and a blend of both would/could be the only way to go.

There's no way we're just going to bring in ten 18y.o. kids. The mix has to be right...ages...types..characters etc etc

Yeah agree we cant have 10 kids, but also don't want it to effect any compensation for Gibbs if we let him go and as identified we need more A graders and almost exclusively they come from top 10 picks in the draft, so would rather try and get 2 picks in the top 10 and another 2 inside the top 30, and then a bit of cream.

Also the quiet nature of our team has become an excuse given again, who are gettable players in the AFL who have a presence and are loud? and don't say Harry O... I would legit stop supporting Carlton if we signed him.

 

[thylacine60]

Here's where part of any rebuild comes from.

Nice bunch of guys.

Love it, what a 2 minute tonic that was.

 

[Broadside]

notice a few people have suggested we put kreuzer up for trade .............

think this would be a big mistake ..... given a decent run with no injuries kreuzer has the ability to be our no.1 ruckman for the next decade

agree you can turn mids over pretty quickly but the big men take time ...

the time to trade him is past, has little currency now, too injury prone...may as well stick with him and hope he gets over his injuries.

 

[angelsgal]

I find parts of that very difficult to believe yet extremely disturbing if true.

Unfortunately, this is true. The family member is a football follower, more just a job for them. Told me I'd be devastated at the state of the club as a passionate supporter. Sounds like it runs very 80's old school still, and very shocked to hear what happens behind closed doors. On a positive, despite all of this they did tell me that "the boys" love Mick and have a high respect for him (despite it not looking like that no field at the moment)

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Unfortunately, this is true. The family member is a football follower, more just a job for them. Told me I'd be devastated at the state of the club as a passionate supporter. Sounds like it runs very 80's old school still, and very shocked to hear what happens behind closed doors. On a positive, despite all of this they did tell me that "the boys" love Mick and have a high respect for him (despite it not looking like that no field at the moment)

Have heard this from a friend who knows Luke Williams who left our recruiting department that he thought it was just one giant boys club from Sticks to Adrian Gleeson to Andrew McKay all just looking after there mates and no one really questioning anything that is happening. He said that Mick Malthouse and to a part Greg Swan were the only ones that actually have any idea.

 

[JuddsABlue]

A family member of mine use to work at the club (they left the club January this year), and often commented on it's poor culture, not just the player culture, but the general workplace culture as well. The players are treated like gods, regular staff (admin, membership assistants) can't even say hi to them (it's actually a rule). This is the first problem, the players are just one part of a much bigger team within the club, but they are not taught that when they walk in the door for the 1st time. I was at the Westpac center once, God help me know lol, and Chris Dawes walked in, smiled at the receptionist and said good morning Sandra (or whatever her name was). There was a sense of unity, everyone in the club is part of the team, not just the players.

people will take this with a grain of salt because because you've signed up this month and could just be a troll account

but I could only describe that rule is strange. So if an admin worker is walking down a hall and Murphy is walking past him, is the admin worker meant to not make eye contact or something? Surely being two human beings they are allowed to acknowledge each others presence with a hi or head bob etc

Maybe the 'no talking' rule has been taken out of context and is more of a rule to not annoy players while training etc because the gym is close to offices, or some other restriction to ensure the admin operation and football operation dont clash

kind of like "office workers stay out of the warehouse" rule that you would find amongst millions of workplaces around the world, but its more of a practical thing than a seperation thing

 

[Azul]

I never said Kreuzer was a failure; however Carlton has more pressing needs. You have to give up quality to gain quality.

We've already given up Jacobs and Hampson, so our ruck depth is at a low. Only at round 5 and already various ingrates are calling for Warnock to be delisted...

So I'm perplexed how anyone could contemplate trading Kreuzer. They don't grow on trees - our abject desperation in rookie drafting former Malthouse protege Wood speaks volumes.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

people will take this with a grain of salt because because you've signed up this month and could just be a troll account

but I could only describe that rule is strange. So if an admin worker is walking down a hall and Murphy is walking past him, is the admin worker meant to not make eye contact or something? Surely being two human beings they are allowed to acknowledge each others presence with a hi or head bob etc

Maybe the 'no talking' rule has been taken out of context and is more of a rule to not annoy players while training etc because the gym is close to offices, or some other restriction to ensure the admin operation and football operation dont clash

kind of like "office workers stay out of the warehouse" rule that you would find amongst millions of workplaces around the world, but its more of a practical thing than a seperation thing

I would think the 'no talking' might be referring to footy discussions, ie Marc Murphy wouldn't be discussing who is injured or likely to play, tactics etc with the clubs accountant. Obviously the players would be well versed on how quickly things can get out through this site and other social media so would be reluctant to talk about footy within the admin team at the club.

 

[JuddsABlue]

I would think the 'no talking' might be referring to footy discussions, ie Marc Murphy wouldn't be discussing who is injured or likely to play, tactics etc with the clubs accountant. Obviously the players would be well versed on how quickly things can get out through this site and other social media so would be reluctant to talk about footy within the admin team at the club.

Considering the trouble Maxwell got in for telling his mum hes starting forward in their next game, I'd imagine all clubs have a policy of not telling admin staff about game/player specifics

 

[Azul]

Was anyone else slightly concerned with what Malthouse said on Footy Classified last night about wanting to have another trade/draft period like we did last year, alluding to the fact that we will go after more players like Everitt, Docherty, Daisy rather than trying to accumulate high draft picks which would be my preferred option.

I have no qualms about selecting Docherty - 2 years development at another club. Everitt is no star but for a slight pick downgrade we get an honest battler who at worst is a mature body to replace Duigan in our 22. The Thomas decision may come back to bite us. If he doesn't recover pre-injury fitness and form, is he really worth the potential 10 year player from a 2nd round pick we would have received for Betts?

In saying that, we ought attempt to conjure a few more draft picks in the first 3 rounds. e.g. Bell, Cachia and Curnow can't fit in the same 22, high picks Lucas, Watson or Bootsma may need a change of club to realise their potential, whether Armfield and Robinson part of long term plans etc.

 

[fine wines]

A family member of mine use to work at the club (they left the club January this year), and often commented on it's poor culture, not just the player culture, but the general workplace culture as well. The players are treated like gods, regular staff (admin, membership assistants) can't even say hi to them (it's actually a rule). This is the first problem, the players are just one part of a much bigger team within the club, but they are not taught that when they walk in the door for the 1st time. I was at the Westpac center once, God help me know lol, and Chris Dawes walked in, smiled at the receptionist and said good morning Sandra (or whatever her name was). There was a sense of unity, everyone in the club is part of the team, not just the players.

Sounds like working for Newscorp

 

[blue healer]

Carlton’s capitulation against Essendon and insipid performance against Melbourne was difficult to stomach.

Making decisions whilst angry usually ends badly, therefore I implore the club takes a deep breath, re-groups and works through the issues systematically. More importantly, keep the media at bay. The attention is damaging the club’s stability and player confidence. Richmond is no better at present, yet they escape the media’s scrutiny.

The list as it stands has 5 players over 30, 4/28 year olds and 3/27 year olds. If you consider the number and caliber of players approaching their twilight years, Carlton will be in a spot of bother in the next year or two, especially if our current crop of youngsters don’t step up and our recruiting/development doesn't improve.

(30 +) - Carrazzo (31), Judd (31), Scotland (34), Simpson (30), Waite (31)
(28) – Armfield, McLean, Jamieson, Walker
(27) – Murphy, Rowe, Warnock

A clean out and proper rebuild is long overdue; however, Carlton has to remain competitive and should adopt a Hawthorn like approach. Target players who are not getting game time and can potentially fill some of our immediate needs (30+ replacements).

Our spine is our weakest link and has been neglected far too long, our foot skills are deplorable, we consistently put team mates under pressure and turn overs have become the norm. No more athletes, pure footballers only.

KPP’s are a must over the next 2 years. The midfield desperately needs 2 - 3 A graders, capable of playing inside/outside and kicking goals when resting forward. An established ruckman wouldn't go astray.

Free Agency is flawed. Short term fix with long term repercussions for clubs not close to challenging for a flag.

Delist/Retire/Trade – Armfield, Carrazzo, Casboult, Garlett, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Judd, McInnes, McLean, Robinson, Rowe, Scotland, Waite, Warnock & White.

I know many will shoot me down regarding Gibbs & Kreuzer (perhaps a few others) but Carlton has a tendency to hang on to under-performing players. Carlton must be brave and take task to players who want to hold the club to ransom and do not meet club expectations. They must not reward mediocrity.

I respected Rattan as a player but he failed to build a team capable of winning a premiership. He relied too heavily on Judd and turned Gibbs into a quarter back when he was recruited as a midfielder. The club should have embraced the draft and recruited according to needs and not best available. A comprehensive skills academy is paramount as is a player’s welfare program. Draftees need to be nurtured so that they feel part of a family, not just a football club.

Geelong & Hawthorn have proven how astute drafting and player development can achieve long term, sustained success. Our recruiting over the past 5 – 6 years has been questionable. Whilst I don’t agree with Bruce Mathieson’s public criticism of our list, he is without doubt correct. Far too many failures which has put pressure on our older players to perform week in, week out, because we lack depth and have no real talent coming through.

The Blues drafted McLean (11) & Lucas (12) in 2009 when the likes of Talia (13), Griffiths (19), Fyfe (20), Carlisle (24), Black (25), Gunston (29) & Reid (38) slipped through. Makes you wonder what our recruiting department were thinking or couldn't identify? The only positive was Henderson and Lucas might yet prove us wrong?

Drafting Watson (18), McCarthy (34) & Mitchell (42) in 2010 was a complete failure as far as I’m concerned, while Smith (19), Guthrie (23), Darling (26), Lester (28), Howe (33), Horlin-Smith (37) and Parker (40) are performing for their respective clubs. Will hurt Carlton long term, considering McCarthy & Mitchell have been delisted and no KPP was drafted/traded to replace them.

Malthouse has the right to make the hard decisions at years end and I for one don’t care which players are delisted or traded, providing it strengthens and galvanizes the club going forward.

If the board has no faith in Malthouse and Rogers, then pursue one of Thompson/Clarkson and one of Wells/Wright at all costs.

If supporters have no faith in the board, they should vote with their feet. They’ll get the message soon enough. If they don’t, Carlton will become the next Melbourne and under achieve for the next 10 years.

1995 is but a distant memory.

In your list of 15 you include both Kreuzer and Warnock, so who do you think we're going to use as ruckmen? Particularly when you also include Casboult and Rowe who are our current backups, is your name Grant Thomas?

I have no doubt that some on that list won't be wearing our colours next year but we will be incredibly uncompetitive if we are to cut that deep. Not to mention the difficulties of trying to blood draftees with that kind of experience gone.

Carrazzo, Garlett, Gibbs , Kreuzer, Judd, McLean, Robinson, Scotland and Waite are deadset walkins to our best 20 players if fit and in form. I think Armfield, Casboult, Rowe and McInnes, on the best we've seen from them, can contribute as lesser players in a pinch.

I think other names that wouldn't go astray on your list are Lucas, Bell, Watson, Bootsma and Ellard. All of these players have more to prove to save their careers at Carlton than many that you've named.

Scotland will, no doubt, retire but as far as I'm concerned Judd can stay here until he, and he alone, decides he's had enough.

As I said in a post last week, I'm a glass half full kinda guy, and I still don't think that our problems are as dire as they are being made out. We do have some, potentially, good kids coming through Cripps, Menzel, Buckley, Graham, Temay, Docherty, Holland etc and the acquisition of Thomas and Everitt. The rebuild has started and it's likely that we will see more significant changes at year end.

Many of our players are, no doubt, playing for their careers so I'd just like to see us support them and the m/c give them a realistic chance to prove themselves.

I think our depth problem is a bit overstated. I think it only looks bad because our top 10 players are not playing to their full potential for whatever reason. Perhaps it is simply that we work our guts off to get the ball into the forward line only to see a plethora of players miss easy goals, it becomes a cancer and saps confidence out of the entire group. I'm a golfer and I know what it eventually does to the rest of your game when you start missing easy putts, you just get desperate and try too hard in other areas or throw the toys out of the pram and write the day off. And I think I've seen a bit of that defeatest attitude in our players of late.

We won't make the finals, but we are not as bad as we've seen to date. Are the Swans, Richmond and Adelaide going much better than us? And they were all regarded as shoe-in top eight.

 

[inyourcool]

I bet the receptionist didn't ask Dawes whether he wanted to buy a membership!

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I have no qualms about selecting Docherty - 2 years development at another club. Everitt is no star but for a slight pick downgrade we get an honest battler who at worst is a mature body to replace Duigan in our 22. The Thomas decision may come back to bite us. If he doesn't recover pre-injury fitness and form, is he really worth the potential 10 year player from a 2nd round pick we would have received for Betts?

In saying that, we ought attempt to conjure a few more draft picks in the first 3 rounds. e.g. Bell, Cachia and Curnow can't fit in the same 22, high picks Lucas, Watson or Bootsma may need a change of club to realise their potential, whether Armfield and Robinson part of long term plans etc.

I think the high pick thing with Bootsma is a bit overplayed, yes he was our first round pick but it was in the year that GWS had 11 picks in the top 14 and then throw in the Omera & Crouch priority picks, so in a normal draft year that pick would have been pick 9 and we end up with Tomlinson or might have taken Taylor Adams or perhaps Chad Wingard would have slipped through to us and it wouldn't seem like such a wasted pick.. When really Bootsma was more like a 2nd round pick, and his output would seem okay for a 2nd round pick.

Watson is the same he was pick 18, GC had 9 picks before our first pick, so in a normal year we have pick 9 and end up with Prestia.

I think this has been the underplayed card amongst how whole recruitment issues crisis discussion. Imagine what our side would look like with Tomlinson and Prestia in it.

Of course this is all on the premise that we would have taken the right players and developed them, but I reckon there is a huge difference between the top 10 player in the draft to the 20th player..

 

[serenityNow]

Was in the Carlton shop over summer, saw Waite walk in he clearly said "Hello (name escapes), hows it going?" to the lady behind counter, and also gave a polite smile and wink to my wife and i as we walked by them.

 

[SBYM]

I find parts of that very difficult to believe yet extremely disturbing if true.

Exactly what I was going to say.

I'm always wary of making anecdotes speak for larger situations…if true though, not good at all...

 

[SBYM]

Also the quiet nature of our team has become an excuse given again, who are gettable players in the AFL who have a presence and are loud? and don't say Harry O... I would legit stop supporting Carlton if we signed him.

What about Heritier Lumumba?

 

[angelsgal]

people will take this with a grain of salt because because you've signed up this month and could just be a troll account

but I could only describe that rule is strange. So if an admin worker is walking down a hall and Murphy is walking past him, is the admin worker meant to not make eye contact or something? Surely being two human beings they are allowed to acknowledge each others presence with a hi or head bob etc

Maybe the 'no talking' rule has been taken out of context and is more of a rule to not annoy players while training etc because the gym is close to offices, or some other restriction to ensure the admin operation and football operation dont clash

kind of like "office workers stay out of the warehouse" rule that you would find amongst millions of workplaces around the world, but its more of a practical thing than a seperation thing

I understand I am only new, but can assure you that I am a passionate Carlton member who was fortunate enough to have a family member work at the club for a little over 12 months. I would specify the role, but they still have friends at the club and don't want to get the family member or former coworkers in trouble. They were told on day one not to approach or distract players. They just cant go up to them and be be like "high Marc, can you sign this for a friend". I'm not saying if the player walked passed them they wouldn't actively say hi to each other, just that employees cant actively seek out a chat to a player. They told me out of the big players, Jamison, Henderson, Gibbs and Kruizer are quite easy going and friendly, will say hi have a chat kind of thing. Players don't know, nor are they taught to care who lower level membership staff are, while a club like Richmond (my family member was told this by a then co-worker who use to work at Richmond prior) that players are taught who all staff, even a trainee, are. Mick Malthouse went to the membership team Christmas lunch, not a single player turned up to thank any of the staff who helped the club get to 50k members. I think it comes down to general player attitude, they have been made allowed by the club to think they are more important than they are off the field, which I think is contributing the the current on field perfomance.

 

[SBYM]

Love it, what a 2 minute tonic that was.

Holman needs to lay off the weights…that poor bench is groaning under his massive frame...

 

[Old Dark Blues]

I understand I am only new, but can assure you that I am a passionate Carlton member who was fortunate enough to have a family member work at the club for a little over 12 months. I would specify the role, but they still have friends at the club and don't want to get the family member or former coworkers in trouble. They were told on day one not to approach or distract players. They just cant go up to them and be be like "high Marc, can you sign this for a friend". I'm not saying if the player walked passed them they wouldn't actively say hi to each other, just that employees cant actively seek out a chat to a player. They told me out of the big players, Jamison, Henderson, Gibbs and Kruizer are quite easy going and friendly, will say hi have a chat kind of thing. Players don't know, nor are they taught to care who lower level membership staff are, while a club like Richmond (my family member was told this by a then co-worker who use to work at Richmond prior) that players are taught who all staff, even a trainee, are. Mick Malthouse went to the membership team Christmas lunch, not a single player turned up to thank any of the staff who helped the club get to 50k members. I think it comes down to general player attitude, they have been made allowed by the club to think they are more important than they are off the field, which I think is contributing the the current on field perfomance.

I don't think you are the first person to raise the idea that the players think they are rock stars.

There was a guy on here who was warning of this very fact and got hounded from the boards. Literally no one would even entertain the idea that the players were ahead of themselves or that there was anything wrong. Now look where we are at.

Can't remember who it was, but pretty sure it was something about hair cuts and footy boots.

Now Betts is gone, Garlett is gone, and so are the hair cuts. He / She might of had a point I suppose.

 

[blue healer]

I don't think you are the first person to raise the idea that the players think they are rock stars.

There was a guy on here who was warning of this very fact and got hounded from the boards. Literally no one would even entertain the idea that the players were ahead of themselves or that there was anything wrong. Now look where we are at.

Can't remember who it was, but pretty sure it was something about hair cuts and footy boots.

Now Betts is gone, Garlett is gone, and so are the hair cuts. He / She might of had a point I suppose.

Definitely improved our football!

 

[SBYM]

I understand I am only new, but can assure you that I am a passionate Carlton member who was fortunate enough to have a family member work at the club for a little over 12 months. I would specify the role, but they still have friends at the club and don't want to get the family member or former coworkers in trouble. They were told on day one not to approach or distract players. They just cant go up to them and be be like "high Marc, can you sign this for a friend". I'm not saying if the player walked passed them they wouldn't actively say hi to each other, just that employees cant actively seek out a chat to a player. They told me out of the big players, Jamison, Henderson, Gibbs and Kruizer are quite easy going and friendly, will say hi have a chat kind of thing. Players don't know, nor are they taught to care who lower level membership staff are, while a club like Richmond (my family member was told this by a then co-worker who use to work at Richmond prior) that players are taught who all staff, even a trainee, are. Mick Malthouse went to the membership team Christmas lunch, not a single player turned up to thank any of the staff who helped the club get to 50k members. I think it comes down to general player attitude, they have been made allowed by the club to think they are more important than they are off the field, which I think is contributing the the current on field perfomance.

This clarification makes the situation sound far better than your original post.