The Toon Army Thread Part 2

[ShearMagic9]

I think Ashley has got to take a lot of the blame for the relegation, even the mess he made of the managers position was probably the difference between staying up and going down.

He takes a portion of the blame, yes. As do the players, coaching staff, various managers (who Ashley appointed) etc.

The appointment of Kinnear was a big WTF moment, but I'm not even too sure he did that bad a job, and who else was going to come in on an interim basis with the club in turmoil?

FWIW, he picked up 25 points in 26 games, which is far from convincing, but it would have kept us up if we'd done the same for the other 12.

However, for the last 3/4 years we've been terrible and flirted with relegation pretty much every year. Ever since SBR left and was replaced by Graeme Souness, we've been on a downhill spiral with only one outcome ever likely to happen.

We were mis-managed well before Ashley came in.

£80m for Newcastle is a bargain IMO, there will never be a better time to go to the support and preach patience, and start doing things the right way. And when they do go back up, without the highly paid wasters, and the marquee names that'll never live up to their pricetag that £80m is starting to look very cheap

Yet if we don't sign any big name players or 'marquee' names, the fans complain that we're not being ambitious enough.

 

[Ry009]

I fail to see that because previous owners/admin were to blame, that totally absolves Ashley from any responsibility.

I admire your passion for the club, but never understood how someone who shits on em so much defends Ashley at every chance possible.

I don't get it.

 

[ShearMagic9]

I fail to see that because previous owners/admin were to blame, that totally absolves Ashley from any responsibility.

I admire your passion for the club, but never understood how someone who shits on em so much defends Ashley at every chance possible.

I don't get it.

I never absolved him from any responsibility (perhaps I didn't make this clear enough).

But the way people go in it's like he's the only one responsible for it, which is far from the case. Most people are saying that if he was never our owner we'd never be in the Championship, which is also far from the case, since he took over a sinking ship and we were destined for the Championship no matter who was in charge (IMO).

I'm also not really defending Ashley so to speak, but I just fail to see what good 'z0mg Mike Ashley is a fat cockney twat h00 got us relegated lulz!11one!1' or 'z0mg less boycott, that'll teach the fat bastard! cockney mafia 0utttt!11one' does.

He's still in charge, so at the end of the day people have to start supporting him if they want the club to move forward.

To be totally honest, I wouldn't say I'm glad we got relegated, but there are a lot of positives to come out of it.

 

[Masss#10]

I never absolved him from any responsibility (perhaps I didn't make this clear enough).

But the way people go in it's like he's the only one responsible for it, which is far from the case. Most people are saying that if he was never our owner we'd never be in the Championship, which is also far from the case, since he took over a sinking ship and we were destined for the Championship no matter who was in charge (IMO).

I'm also not really defending Ashley so to speak, but I just fail to see what good 'z0mg Mike Ashley is a fat cockney twat h00 got us relegated lulz!11one!1' or 'z0mg less boycott, that'll teach the fat bastard! cockney mafia 0utttt!11one' does.

He's still in charge, so at the end of the day people have to start supporting him if they want the club to move forward.

To be totally honest, I wouldn't say I'm glad we got relegated, but there are a lot of positives to come out of it.

FC the hole you have been digging has become the size of the grand canyon.

So your're saying when KK was appointed you still thought we would end up in the Championship? We all thought we would be atleast top 6 or 7 last season. We brought in players such as Coloccini and Gutierrez who impressed against Man Utd on that first day, and did you still think we would fall down to the Championship?

We were all excited about last season, we all thought this could be the year we press our claims for Europe. Then when KK resigned (100% the fault of Ashley's) thats when our season went into a nose dive.

Previous seasons may have had some impact but not the impact your're suggesting. No-one could've predicted we get relegated and for you to say you knew we would is a bit rich.

 

[ShearMagic9]

FC the hole you have been digging has become the size of the grand canyon.

So your're saying when KK was appointed you still thought we would end up in the Championship? We all thought we would be atleast top 6 or 7 last season. We brought in players such as Coloccini and Gutierrez who impressed against Man Utd on that first day, and did you still think we would fall down to the Championship?

Because Coloccini and Gutierrez have turned out to be such fantastic signings haven't they?

They're yet another example of 'big name' flops who are on ridiculously high wages, just the latest in a very long line.

When KK left we'd drawn against Man Utd (good result), got an arsey win against Bolton, and gone to the Emirates and been belted.

He was in charge for 21 games, and picked up 27 points at a win rate of 28.57%. That's hardly top 6 or 7 material.

One good result does not mean that we wouldn't have got relegated.

We were all excited about last season, we all thought this could be the year we press our claims for Europe. Then when KK resigned (100% the fault of Ashley's) thats when our season went into a nose dive.

He was in charge for 3 games. How can you possibly make a judgement about what may or may not have happened? We were far more likely (even under the leadership of Keegan, who is very over-rated to start with), to get relegated than we were to get promoted.

Previous seasons may have had some impact but not the impact your're suggesting. No-one could've predicted we get relegated and for you to say you knew we would is a bit rich.

We were destined to go down as soon as Graeme Souness came in. That's pretty much a fact. Maybe not last season, maybe not this season, but sometime in the next 5/10 years we would've been in the Championship. Denying that is stupid.

 

[Nardz]

IMO ashley would be stupid to sell now.

the club is obviously not worth as much in the championship as it will be if we get into the premier league next season...

i think you'll find if we get promoted he'll be selling pretty soon..

as for hughton i don't mind his appointment so much.. he's been doing ok so far, been getting results.. you have to go with what is working for us at the moment, and it's not exactly a long term deal.. wasn't it only 18 months?

 

[ShearMagic9]

Yep.

The players seem to like him to (and probably had a big part to play in getting him appointed full time).

Plus, he's cheap and he has no problems being a 'yes man' to Ashley, so it's an appointment that makes sense.

 

[moomba]

Bit of re-writing of history going on here.

KK may not be a managerial genius but I doubt at the start of the season anyone would have predicted Newcastle end up in the situation they did.

And to suggest that the club was irretrievably doomed from the moment Souness came in is rubbish I'm afraid. Failure to address bad mangerial decisions is as bad as making the decision in the first place.

 

[ShearMagic9]

Bit of re-writing of history going on here.

KK may not be a managerial genius but I doubt at the start of the season anyone would have predicted Newcastle end up in the situation they did.

FWIW, if Keegan stayed I dont think we would've been relegated. We would've finished 12th or 13th (again), followed by the same this year, and the same next year.

But really, are we satisfied with coming 12th or 13th every season? Getting relegated should've allowed us to rebuild, to come up with people who want to play for the club, and reduce our wage bill.

As it is, we've managed to reduce our wage bill, and get rid of a bit of the deadwood, but because of the furore surrounding the club we havent been able to do as much as we should've as of yet.

Our squad last season simply wasn't good enough to do anything but come 10th-15th, and we would've had a hard job shifting most of them (due to their wages), if we didn't get relegated. Even if we 'bought' some big name signings, we all knew why they would've been here, which would've been reflected by their performances on the pitch.

It just amazes me that some people wanted the person who couldn't even come up with the £80m to buy the club to be in charge. I'd prefer Ashley to be honest.

And to suggest that the club was irretrievably doomed from the moment Souness came in is rubbish I'm afraid. Failure to address bad mangerial decisions is as bad as making the decision in the first place.

Unless you're continually coming in the top 4, you cant operate on the amount of debt that we had. It's impossible.

Failure to address bad managerial decisions? We've been through about 10 managers in the last 4 years in case you haven't realised .

It's been bad appointment followed by bad appointment followed by bad appointment.

Keegan was a bad appointment, Kinnear was a bad appointment, hell, even Shearer was a bad appointment. They've all been made under the Ashley regime and he has to take responsibility for those.

 

[moomba]

Failure to address bad managerial decisions isn't just restricted to hiring a new manager.

What is it that Souness put into place that no manager since could correct?

There were bad signings on high wages, absolutely. And that was compounded by subsequent managers making equally bad signings on equally high wages. But thats not Souness fault.

As for the debt, nothing was done about it. Thats not Souness fault either.

I'm not Souness' biggest fan by any means, but to say that once he took over that everyone subsequently involved in the club was powerless to do anything to avoid eventual relegation is just wrong IMO.

 

[ShearMagic9]

Failure to address bad managerial decisions isn't just restricted to hiring a new manager.

What is it that Souness put into place that no manager since could correct?

There were bad signings on high wages, absolutely. And that was compounded by subsequent managers making equally bad signings on equally high wages. But thats not Souness fault.

As for the debt, nothing was done about it. Thats not Souness fault either.

I'm not Souness' biggest fan by any means, but to say that once he took over that everyone subsequently involved in the club was powerless to do anything to avoid eventual relegation is just wrong IMO.

I never actually blamed Souness.

Go back and read what I've written. I said things started to go bad since the Souness appointment, I've actually defended Souness on other threads.

We were destined to go down since Souness came in, but it was through no fault of Souness. It was just during that period of time that we started to get in lots of debt and other things were happening.

During SBR we made Europe, as soon as he left we were fighting relegation nearly every season. I'm not sure it would've been different if another manager was appointed, but even so, Souness could only work with what he was given and he's not a hopeless manager (as his record suggests).

You even look at Souness' record when he was at Newcastle and we won more games than we lost. Main problem was that the fans didn't like him, and we all know that the fans run the club.

To be honest, the big name high wage signings that came in during Souness was here weren't even signed by him.

My point is, Shepherd also mis-managed the club, but he kept secrets so he wasn't found out until his time in charge of the club was over.

 

[CAS79]

Back to the football

I didn't see the game but my reports suggest lucky to win as a draw would have been a just result.

The stats say The Blades had more chances but Im hearing they took a lot of shots outside the box but Steve Harper definitely earn this money from the game.

As to Hughton I remain sceptical but that could be because he's an Ashley appointment, because to be fair to the manager having us top is as good as job as could be done and we have to ask who else is available who would be willing to work with us.

Ashley can fo and die but I'll give Hughton a chance from here, as I didn't believe we would be top at this point and thought wed be fighting for a playoff spot, this could still happen but there's a little hope in me now we will be promoted automatically.

Promotion and improvement in the world economy could see a raise in selling value and Ashley will be gone.

Peterborough this weekend, now if we don't take all 3 points from this game I may be on here ranting against everything I just said

 

[Jonny27]

Harpers save in the 93rd minute was brilliant.

 

[ShearMagic9]

Straight at him.

If he'd let that go in I'd be asking serious questions.

 

[Ry009]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/tyne/8339594.stm

 

[ShearMagic9]

What exactly is his case?

Unless it's in the constitution of the club, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Regardless, I hope the name of the stadium wont be changed (and I don't think it will be).

 

[Ry009]

Regardless, I hope the name of the stadium wont be changed (and I don't think it will be).

Point of that at least was that someone of note was speaking up on it.

 

[ShearMagic9]

Point of that at least was that someone of note was speaking up on it.

Fair enough.

Sadly I don't think Mike Ashley is the type that listens to anyone but himself though.

Probably how he's so successful in business.

 

[Ry009]

Fair enough.

Sadly I don't think Mike Ashley is the type that listens to anyone but himself though.

Probably how he's so successful in business.

 

[moomba]

www.sportsdirect.com at St James Park stadium.

Not sure you could give a bigger f**k you to the supporters.

 

[Ry009]

www.sportsdirect.com at St James Park stadium.

Not sure you could give a bigger f**k you to the supporters.

Yep.

 

[Childish Gambino]

I think there has been a massive over reaction to the renaming of the stadium. At the end of the day it's only a name and the true supporters will call it SJP forever. This to go with the fact that there is still SJP in the new name.

 

[Ry009]

If the Dons were short of change (obviously not but hypothetically speaking) how would fans react to a rename of Windy Hill?

 

[Tigerbob]

www.sportsdirect.com at St James Park stadium.

Not sure you could give a bigger f**k you to the supporters.

The wonderful world of that Maverick Mike Ashley.

I'm sure some people can justify this.....

 

[ShearMagic9]

www.sportsdirect.com at St James Park stadium.

Not sure you could give a bigger f**k you to the supporters.

Hahaha. Oh man. I actually said to my dad 'dont you think it'd be funny if he named it Sports Direct Park or something, just to stick it up the fans'.

There was already a big Sports Direct banner there anyway though
Didn't think he'd actually do it though

I guess at least he didn't go that far? At least he's kept St. James Park in there

But who is actually going to call it SportsDirect@ St. James Park Stadium? I mean, really.

I think there has been a massive over reaction to the renaming of the stadium. At the end of the day it's only a name and the true supporters will call it SJP forever. This to go with the fact that there is still SJP in the new name.

Whilst I agree with you (and think it's a sign of the times), it's still a pretty big deal.

Although people still call AAMI Stadium Footy Park, and Etihad Stadium, Docklands etc.