Thoughts

[Jerome]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18


1. Why not take it out on McGregor who was torn a new one by Reiwoldt??????

2. You cannot expect a kid with 4 games of AFL experience to be the answer. If you think Hentschel will keep the likes of Lynch and Tredrea quiet this year then you are very much mistaken cos it ain't gonna happen. Playing Hentschel won't make us any better in defence this year but will help in the long run. He won't make it worse than last years but he won't make it better either.

3. The only thing you could have taken out of last year's SANFL final series about Hentschel is that he is a capable as a backman and is improving. Pinning our hopes on a youngster with limited experience at the senior lever is way too much to ask. Its just wishful thinking.

4. BTW, who do you think IS the answer. I honestly don't see a player on our list who can help us out in the area that you are talking about.

1. From my first post in this thread - "Nick Riewoldt carved us up. I liked his game a lot!

Bass and Kenny should have straightened us up and sorted the mess out."

I havent missed out Kenny.

2. So why is he playing there then? How does it help us improve in the finals which is what we need to do?

I never said he could beat a Tredrea or Lynch. I'm saying the opposite really.

As I have said I call it as I see it. It's not a matter of picking on anyone or being impatient or over reacting. I have given an honest assesment of what I saw on the day.

3. As i said I know what you are saying about his lack of experince at AFL level. For mine, he needs to show more.

4. The one guy who could be a goer is on the rookie list. As for the rest...today didnt fill me with confidence.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by sir_dan
Perrie will play for my beloved Panthers again this year on todays efforts.

He will never play for your beloved Panthers again. He is a Rooster now

 

[Jerome]

Originally posted by sir_dan

Perrie will play for my beloved Panthers again this year on todays efforts.

Hate to burst your bubble Sir, but Perrie is no longer with the Panthers. He's with North Adelaide now.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Jerome
2. So why is he playing there then? How does it help us improve in the finals which is what we need to do?

I never said he could beat a Tredrea or Lynch. I'm saying the opposite really.

As I have said I call it as I see it. It's not a matter of picking on anyone or being impatient or over reacting. I have given an honest assesment of what I saw on the day.

3. As i said I know what you are saying about his lack of experince at AFL level. For mine, he needs to show more.

4. The one guy who could be a goer is on the rookie list. As for the rest...today didnt fill me with confidence.

2. because we need a succession play for whe Nigel retires. We need someone who can come in and hold his own in 2005. Not be as good as Nigel but to be competent enough at AFL level.

You haven't said he can beat those guys but by the way you carry on one can't help but feel that you expect him to which is a HUGE ask.

3. Why do you say he needs to show more. Tell me a a player on our squad who in recent times shoed more than Henschel in his 4th AFL game. McGregor didn't. Perrie Didn't. No KPP does. Cut the kid some slack your expectatios are way to high even if he was taken at #1 in the National Draft

4. Parker wouldn't be any better than Hentschel. In fact I would guarantee it that he would be caught on a couple of occasion today where Hentschel got out of trouble.

As I said if you expect a youngster to come in and solve our problems in defence from the word go you are barking up a wrong tree.

 

[Jerome]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Yes without the leadership and experience of Smart and Hart, there appeared to be no defensive "general" controlling the backline. McGregor has to impose himself more on the game, and lead the defence - thats what all good CHB's do.
For me he's too introverted/passive.

Agree on Kenny. Then there is Bass who can be too full on and produces stupid mistakes at times. They're a bit uneven and really shows how well Smart and Hart seem to balance these two out.

As for today, it was a big chance for them both to step up as team leaders. With around 200 games experince between them they should have been much sharper.

 

[PAfolwr]

This post is slightly off topic, but IMO these type of games can be overanalyzed .
Don't get me wrong, I wish Port had won last year's Wizard Cup, and again this year, but that is not the No 1 focus until you get to the semis and beyond.
When watching last nights game, I wasn't interested at all with Wanganeen, Wilson, Tredrea etc. The only things that were of interest were the new gameplan. How having Chad Cornes at CHB impacted on our forward structure, having a look at Gillham, White, Chaplin, Salopeck (because of his injury) etc.
Overall, happy that it appears we are getting away from our chipping game, Gillham looks the goods (we will need a young tall or two at back soon), and even though Cornes would make a good CHB I fear it will stuff up our forward structure and put too much pressure on White before he is ready.
We need a new midfielder or three, and Sal and Dom did ok.
That is about all one can take away from last night's game.

wrt today's game, some of the points of interest for me were
1. Alterations to gameplan__Not sure if there are any.
2. You need young talls, and Hentschell went a long way towards one of those spots.
3. You forward line__Bzzz. Fail. Carey is past it. Parry is not good enough to be the main man. Welsh showed signs, but all in all not much has changed from last year. Still lots to work on.
4. Ruckmen__Hudson a big plus.
5. Midfield__didn't care. It was strong last year, and will be strong again this year.

Apart from that, your usuals did what they usually do, albeit some are a bit rusty. Ricciuto did some strong work when he came on, Johncock showed some class, Burns has a brain that is too quick for himself at times and occasionally cannot communicate with his team-mates, McLeod did some of his runs, etc etc. But really who cares about these players at the moment.

Really, the biggest disappointment about losing last night's game is that now I will not get to see any more practice games. Not happy.
The same thing will happen to you lot now that the Crows get to play around the place.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by PAfolwr
This post is slightly off topic, but IMO these type of games can be overanalyzed .
Don't get me wrong, I wish Port had won last year's Wizard Cup, and again this year, but that is not the No 1 focus until you get to the semis and beyond.
When watching last nights game, I wasn't interested at all with Wanganeen, Wilson, Tredrea etc. The only things that were of interest were the new gameplan. How having Chad Cornes at CHB impacted on our forward structure, having a look at Gillham, White, Chaplin, Salopeck (because of his injury) etc.
Overall, happy that it appears we are getting away from our chipping game, Gillham looks the goods (we will need a young tall or two at back soon), and even though Cornes would make a good CHB I fear it will stuff up our forward structure and put too much pressure on White before he is ready.
We need a new midfielder or three, and Sal and Dom did ok.
That is about all one can take away from last night's game.

wrt today's game, some of the points of interest for me were
1. Alterations to gameplan__Not sure if there are any.
2. You need young talls, and Hentschell went a long way towards one of those spots.
3. You forward line__Bzzz. Fail. Carey is past it. Parry is not good enough to be the main man. Welsh showed signs, but all in all not much has changed from last year. Still lots to work on.
4. Ruckmen__Hudson a big plus.
5. Midfield__didn't care. It was strong last year, and will be strong again this year.

Apart from that, your usuals did what they usually do, albeit some are a bit rusty. Ricciuto did some strong work when he came on, Johncock showed some class, Burns has a brain that is too quick for himself at times and occasionally cannot communicate with his team-mates, McLeod did some of his runs, etc etc. But really who cares about these players at the moment.

Really, the biggest disappointment about losing last night's game is that now I will not get to see any more practice games. Not happy.
The same thing will happen to you lot now that the Crows get to play around the place.

I think you put it in a nutshel my friend.

I don't really give a rats clacker about how our proven player went (unless they had shockers). The thing I was looking for is who of the youngsters will show good signs and how will our recruits fare in their fisrt AFL games with us. Overall some encouraging signs.

I also wanted to see how we will deliver the ball to our forwards and the changes to our game plan. We deliered it the sae way as we did in last 3 seasons. The game plan was non existant. The only thing I picked up on is that we tried to implement you "old" game style by chipping around, going short and bringing the ball to our forward line slowly. I would much rather stick to long direct play even if we do bomb it long to the forwards.

We must use the centre corridor. Going up and down the flanks really gives me the ****s.

 

[Jerome]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
2. because we need a succession play for whe Nigel retires. We need someone who can come in and hold his own in 2005. Not be as good as Nigel but to be competent enough at AFL level.

You haven't said he can beat those guys but by the way you carry on one can't help but feel that you expect him to which is a HUGE ask.

3. Why do you say he needs to show more. Tell me a a player on our squad who in recent times shoed more than Henschel in his 4th AFL game. McGregor didn't. Perrie Didn't. No KPP does. Cut the kid some slack your expectatios are way to high even if he was taken at #1 in the National Draft

4. Parker wouldn't be any better than Hentschel. In fact I would guarantee it that he would be caught on a couple of occasion today where Hentschel got out of trouble.

As I said if you expect a youngster to come in and solve our problems in defence from the word go you are barking up a wrong tree.

I havent carried on at all.

I dont expect him to beat those guys. I realise the size of the task. As I said though, with his flaws someone will pick up on them and that is what a smart opposition coach would do. Put a player on him to play off his weaknesses. He has a chance to work on them now and negate that from happening. If he doesnt work on the physical side of his game, hes adding to our problems IMO.

As for a comparision with someone in our recent squad, from memory Bass was handy early on in 98. Yes I know he was at melbourne but TH has been on an AFL list for a few years now as well.

I have cut him some slack. Read my first post in this thread today. My expecations of him arent that great - that's pretty obvious.

I'm not the guy saying he will be a star, or how great his skills are or how he needs that one AFL game to break through. I've said almost the opposite but I've been pretty reasonable and constructive about it.

I'm hardly barking up the wrong tree. People have called me on my statements and I have answered them.

Never said I expected him to solve our problems - those are your words. But while he is in defence its fair to assess him on how or if he could fix them.

 

[ant]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18


3. Why do you say he needs to show more. Tell me a a player on our squad who in recent times shoed more than Henschel in his 4th AFL game. McGregor didn't. Perrie Didn't. No KPP does. Cut the kid some slack your expectatios are way to high even if he was taken at #1 in the National Draft

I think that's because we keep reading from some posters on this board how great a player Potential is

I actually worked today's game so I didn't get to see too much of it (yet), but in fact from what I've seen, and as others have pointed out, Potential wasn't too bad, and in fact showed a bit of *ahem* poise *cough* (bar the bit at the end). So you might be onto something Stiffy!

But Jerome raises valid points......we'll just have to see how Potential continues to develop.....

 

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
...The only thing I picked up on is that we tried to implement you "old" game style by chipping around, going short and bringing the ball to our forward line slowly. I would much rather stick to long direct play even if we do bomb it long to the forwards.

We must use the centre corridor. Going up and down the flanks really gives me the ****s.

To be honest, the Crows did seem "indecisive" at times, but I didn't pick it to be a deliberate plan.
For your sake I hope that you are wrong on this count, because "our" gameplan is a pain in the proverbial. It is brilliant when it works, but has a tendency to fall apart in tight games.

 

[tribey]

I only saw the second half but that was enough. Same old pussy sideways pass the buck gameplan that won't win us a bottle Old Spice in a primary school lucky dip.

I'll leave you with a mathematical equation:

Luke Ball + Nick Riewoldt = Kicked our arse.

 

[Munga]

Hey guys. From a saints perspective, one young player stood out for me the whole day. Didn't know who he was but remembered his number and just looked it up, and instantly know what all the fuss is about! Mr Potential Henchell. Looked really really good. Showed poise and good judgement, and looks like he has some height. He should be in your 22 this year. He really stayed in my mind, a classy looking player.

Cheers.
BTW Go Saints!

 

[tribey]

While our Hayden Skipworth continues to remind me of Kristian Bardsley.

 

[Fergus]

Originally posted by PAfolwr
This post is slightly off topic, but IMO these type of games can be overanalyzed .
Don't get me wrong, I wish Port had won last year's Wizard Cup, and again this year, but that is not the No 1 focus until you get to the semis and beyond.
When watching last nights game, I wasn't interested at all with Wanganeen, Wilson, Tredrea etc. The only things that were of interest were the new gameplan. How having Chad Cornes at CHB impacted on our forward structure, having a look at Gillham, White, Chaplin, Salopeck (because of his injury) etc.
Overall, happy that it appears we are getting away from our chipping game, Gillham looks the goods (we will need a young tall or two at back soon), and even though Cornes would make a good CHB I fear it will stuff up our forward structure and put too much pressure on White before he is ready.
We need a new midfielder or three, and Sal and Dom did ok.
That is about all one can take away from last night's game.

wrt today's game, some of the points of interest for me were
1. Alterations to gameplan__Not sure if there are any.
2. You need young talls, and Hentschell went a long way towards one of those spots.
3. You forward line__Bzzz. Fail. Carey is past it. Parry is not good enough to be the main man. Welsh showed signs, but all in all not much has changed from last year. Still lots to work on.
4. Ruckmen__Hudson a big plus.
5. Midfield__didn't care. It was strong last year, and will be strong again this year.

Apart from that, your usuals did what they usually do, albeit some are a bit rusty. Ricciuto did some strong work when he came on, Johncock showed some class, Burns has a brain that is too quick for himself at times and occasionally cannot communicate with his team-mates, McLeod did some of his runs, etc etc. But really who cares about these players at the moment.

Really, the biggest disappointment about losing last night's game is that now I will not get to see any more practice games. Not happy.
The same thing will happen to you lot now that the Crows get to play around the place.

Good post PAfolwr - I think you have summed it up well. When I watched and went through the results for all games the main thing I am looking for is what is different from last year, not confirmation of what we already know.

Not much seems to have changed with the Crows indirect style despite plenty of talk about it. It is interesting to see how players revert to old habits when the pressure is put on. Some of the choices for delivery into the forward line were terrible and we were trying to hard to find Carey when he wasn't in the best spot. Perrie needs to push himself into a game when Carey is playing as well - no good sitting back and not presenting himself like he does when Carey isn't playing.

Thankfully a few of the younger guys stepped up a bit but there's a long way to go.

 

[ok.crows]

Not in the game:

Bode, Shirley, Stenglein, Burns, Bassett, S Stevens.

OK only at times:
Roo, Burton, Perrie (when Carey wasn't on), Carey (only a couple of good things, waste of space at other times), McGregor (got caught out of position every time there was a rebound turnover, OK otherwise), Massie, Edwards (rusty), Gallagher (only one to give some drive out of defence - got caught out on the rebound plays though), Hudson (mis-directed the ball), Biglands (couldn't deal with the lack of a run-up).

OK most of the time they were on:
Goodwin, McLeod, Skipworth, Hentschel (apart from a few brain fades).

Poor aspects:
1. Moved the ball far too slowly.
2. No run & rebound out of defence.
3. Hesitant, short & wide.
4. Ball handling not sharp, not up to standard.
5. Too many players standing out of contests waiting for someone else to go in & get the pill.
6. Not enough marking power.
7. Bombed it into the forward-line still.
8. Inaccurate foot passes.
9. Slow & poor decision making.
10. Did not trust each other.
11. Lack of talking.
12. No effective counter to the Saints flood tactics.

 

[raboyle]

They could have at least tried to get a couple of nine-pointers.

Oh well... back to Adelaide United for their finals campaign.

 

[noddy]

Would have to agree with nearly most of the comments posted.

What worried me most was our lack of leadership in the back lines especially from Bassett & with Smart retiring next year that will leave only Benny Hart to show the way so hopefully someone else will step up this year.

Another big worry was our lack of muscle & second/third effort from the mid-field (although Hudson did try) at the stoppages & seeing this area in the last few years was our main strength it only goes to show what Bickley & Clarke meant to our midfield & how hard Bicks is going to be missed.

How the heck could R Burns be on a wing before young Reilly & for that matter how could he get a start before young Schuback ??

On sundays performance it looks like our coaching skills & game plan have taken a backwood step & improvement would have to be immense on what was put on display against a more confident & accomplished side in Saint Kilda, well done to the Saints.

 

[Jars458]

We put our best side out there and were thrashed for three quarters.

A terrible performance with very few highlights.

Hudson was ok, Gallagher ran well but got hurt on the way back and Reilly was great once he came on.

Welsh tried hard and was hard at the ball. That clash with Hudgton was a ripper by both players but of course Walls could only talk of Maxy.

Hentschell was solid but has no left side whatsoever which cost us at least two goals through turnovers

Burns was terrible, as was Ayres coaching.

Perrie led under the ball.

Carey tried those lameass half strenght kicks that never went to anyone

Skipworth shirked the contest a number of times

 

[napsyd]

Its all been said, but here's my two cents.

Some of the youngsters showed a fair bit. Some with doubts over their heads played handy games, ie Skippy, Gags and Mr Potential all showed they can be valuable contributors. Hudson will be more than handy and Reilly has stepped up further.

Defensively we are ****e without Sir Ben and to a lesser extent Smarty. Our defense also relies on our midfield dominance, when that is not there we are very fragile. Very disturbing.

Crap game plan as discussed. Ayres is still a one trick coach. Slow to make changes and then they are generally the wrong ones.

Carey took up where he finished up last year, nuff said. And he clearly tends to stiffle Perrie, who was 100% better once Carey was benched.

Can someone please remind me why we bother playing Burns? I've said it before, he should not play in the tri colours this year without phenominal SANFL form. And God, if he must be played, play him in the forward pocket! This stuff doesn't take Einstein!!

Did someone say that Bode played? Could have fooled me.

The other senior players were generally OK, it is February after all.

Very early days, but very disturbing performance by some of our players and our coaching staff.

 

[naughty monkey]

Originally posted by ok.crows
Not in the game:

Poor aspects:
1. Moved the ball far too slowly.
2. No run & rebound out of defence.
3. Hesitant, short & wide.
4. Ball handling not sharp, not up to standard.
5. Too many players standing out of contests waiting for someone else to go in & get the pill.
6. Not enough marking power.
7. Bombed it into the forward-line still.
8. Inaccurate foot passes.
9. Slow & poor decision making.
10. Did not trust each other.
11. Lack of talking.
12. No effective counter to the Saints flood tactics.

Not having seen the game yet, this sounds as if we have started the year just as we finished it.

After watching Freo Friday night we'll be very lucky to get within 10 goals if they play as hard as that again.

 

[PrideOf]

I thought Hudson did okay. I'm not sure why the Advertiser bagged him so much ... it's his first game at this level FFS.

Good to see a big man, named Ben, with the numbers 1 and 3 on his back actually wanting to do the work. A refreshing change.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by napsyd
Did someone say that Bode played? Could have fooled me.

Bode really concerns me & I have serious doubts as to whether he is in our best-22. Said a while back that I wouldn't be surprised if he is traded at the end of 2004.

The thing that concerned me most yesterday was our forward line without M Stevens could struggle again in 2004 like it did in parts of 2003. We need consistent performances by Carey, Perrie, S Stevens & Welsh. Only the later put up his hand yesterday.

Confident our midfield will return to its normal dominance once Roo & Birdman regain full fitness. Also, defence should be OK with Benny back from injury & Edwards returning to the backline.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Bode really concerns me & I have serious doubts as to whether he is in our best-22.

Exactly why I thought he wasn't worth a second round pick in that mammoth debate awhile back. He looks off the pace and disinterested. Has to decide fairly quickly whether he wants to continue being an AFL footballer.

 

[marvin]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18

3. Why do you say he needs to show more. Tell me a a player on our squad who in recent times shoed more than Henschel in his 4th AFL game. McGregor didn't. Perrie Didn't.

Just for the record - in Kenny's 4th AFL game (playing CHF vs Hawthorn, and not in the pyjama footy season) he had 13 possessions, 7 marks and a goal. In fact, he kicked a goal in each of his first 5 games, averaging 10+ touches, 5 marks and a couple of hitouts. He showed a bit early in his career, before sliding back a bit.

In Perrie's 4th AFL game had 11 possessions, 2 marks and 2 tackles.

Hentschel looked good, but I'm not sold yet. Heck, it's only pyjama footy - Ben Marsh took 3 marks in the first quarter on Friday night, and one of them was even contested. I for one am still sitting firmly on the fence with my opinion of Trent.

 

[marvin]

One further thing that yesterday convinced me of is that we can't have Stenglein and Shirley in the same 22. They play the same role. One or t'other is needed - but not both together.

In addition, the performance of the team is inversely proportional to the amount of hair product in use for any given match.