Tippett's Gone - READ RULES BEFORE POSTING

[Schulzycrow]

The FA rules is yet another example of what happens when Anderson is allowed to come up with ideas. Everything he has touched has been turned into a horrible mess that has needed even more rules and changes to try and fix. Great way to run the no 1 sport in Australia AFL..

 

[Danoz]

I agree with your first point, it is crazy. However I would add there shouldn't be compo it is just plain stupid.

I think they can keep it at 4 weeks, FA period 2 weeks and the 2 weeks trading.

If they get rid of the compo picks the issue also goes away.

It's not even about the compo, it is about being able to fit guys under the salary cap. Let's say Ryan Griffin is thinking of coming to Adelaide, and needs to be traded, but isn't sure whether its Adelaide or Port he wants to go to. Adelaide is also looking at bringing in another guy under FA, say Jordan Russell, but can't fit both under the cap, and would prefer to get Griffin. We need to wait to see what Griffin decides, whether a deal can be done, before making a go at Russell.

I think it needs to be as Vader has suggested, 2 weeks FA, one week overlaps with trading, 2 weeks trading.

 

[Mismatched]

I have no problem with the two interacting. My suggestion is as follows:

• Compo picks have to be announced as soon as the deal is made. Forget about this "balance of Free Agents in and out" rubbish. This balancing act is preventing a whole lot of FA deals from going through, because clubs are afraid of diluting the picks that they're going to get after losing a major player (eg Goddard) early.
• Reduce the FA period to 2 weeks - 1 week alone, 1 week overlapping with the trading period.
• Leave the trade period at 3 weeks, as this should allow more deals to be done, as clubs will have time to properly assess the players on offer.

Agree with your suggestions, although I'm not sure trade week needs to be 3 weeks long, I think Monday through to the following week's Friday is more than adequate, giving clubs about 12 days to get their dealings done, with only one week without free agency, all 3 weeks does is gives clubs time to duck around doing nothing for 2 weeks. I think they need a bit of time pressure to get things done, although I do agree it needed to be extended.

Personally I cannot for the life of me understand how the AFL agreed on the FA compo formula. Different levels of compo similar to GC/GWS compos, suggesting that not every player is equal, but if your club loses someone and then gains someone through FA, players are considered equal. This then holds up trade week as they cannot release compo until FA is done. The only reason I could see anyone approving this is if they just wanted to duck everyone around. No reasonable person would think this an adequate system, it was plain for all to see that clubs, similar to Port and Essendon with Monfries, would look to preserve the compo picks they received/wouldn't receive.

 

[King Elvis]

The FA rules is yet another example of what happens when Anderson is allowed to come up with ideas. Everything he has touched has been turned into a horrible mess that has needed even more rules and changes to try and fix. Great way to run the no 1 sport in Australia AFL..

I work at a small/medium company; 40 odd people; we've got a good bunch of people here, and sometimes, we need to make things up on the fly and then refine it as we go...

But we aren't a multi-billion dollar business; it's insane they can be so lax and vague with rules/regulations that situations like this constantly develop.

 

[Mattrox]

The compenstion system for free agency is a joke as well when clubs have manipulated the process in order for them to secure compensation picks.

Surely the Monfries deal will be the catalyst for a significant change to the FA system next year.

With FA why don't they assign a pick range for each FA as they already know who is a FA at the start of the season. After the GF they announce a pick range for every FA (inside top ten, mid 2nd round). This can be worked out by the players value to the club over past 3 years, perhaps champion data rankings could help. Then when a FA deal is done they assign a pick within the range stated.

 

[The Big Sauce]

Considering the lack of quality KPF's about I'd say getting the 10th best forward for pick 22 + something else tasty is a pretty good deal for you guys.

 

[The Big Sauce]

With FA why don't they assign a pick range for each FA as they already know who is a FA at the start of the season. After the GF they announce a pick range for every FA (inside top ten, mid 2nd round). This can be worked out by the players value to the club over past 3 years, perhaps champion data rankings could help. Then when a FA deal is done they assign a pick within the range stated.

Wouldn't work for two reasons.

Say player breaks out in that year, was rated worth a 3rd rounder but turns into a great player worthy of a first rounder and walks out. Then you have the original club screwed over.

Champion data rankings don't work because it wouldn't work for defenders, they don't score high enough unless they are a possession whore.

 

[J_Moore]

About to be the highest non-expansion team player in the league though?

What? no he's not.

 

[LC40]

Do we really want Mitchell? Or a top ten pick? Where would be be rated for this years draft?

I don't care as long as we get something. We will draft to fill needs if we get Mitchell.

 

[Danoz]

Wouldn't work for two reasons.

Say player breaks out in that year, was rated worth a 3rd rounder but turns into a great player worthy of a first rounder and walks out. Then you have the original club screwed over.

Champion data rankings don't work because it wouldn't work for defenders, they don't score high enough unless they are a possession whore.

The formula is also based on the contract offered by the new club.

 

[Danoz]

What? no he's not.

Did seem to me to be a bit of an exaggeration. Will be close though? Apart from Scully and Ablett there were no players earning over $1m this year. Read it in an article somewhere, sorry don't remember where.

 

[fartass]

JETTA spotted in adelaide, reported on tripple M...

i think i just made a mess

 

[The Big Sauce]

Jetta isn't in Adelaide it's just Tredders being a twat

 

[Danoz]

Jetta will not be traded to Adelaide. MMM seriously stuff up everything they leak.

 

[headache1]

They can't let the post-season stretch on forever. They've modified it this year so that it runs for 4 weeks - 1 week for FA deals, 2 weeks for both FA and trading, 1 week for trading alone.

This is the first year that the AFL has had FA in place. I suspect that they'll do things differently in 2013, based on the lessons learned this year. I think it's harsh being overly judgemental on them, given that they had no idea how FA & trading would interract with each other (ie clubs holding off on trading until they know what compo picks they have from FA moves).

I could have told them that not announcing FA compensation picks before the trade period began would hold it up. Who's going to do a deal for a draft pick, or a player and a draft pick, when they're not even sure that the draft pick they're trading for is the one they'll end up with?*

Apart from us RE Hudson

 

[Mismatched]

But Sydney haven't done anything yet for us to complain

All the 2 clubs have done is have a coffee day 1 and then another brief chat b4 a free day yesterday

Just prelim work by both clubs ......just be patient

Yeah, good post. Posters really need to realise that the media have NFI what is going on between the two clubs. What the media are extremely good at doing is passing speculation as truth. They put 2 and 2 together, mix in a bit of their own extremist views, add a bit of controversy and at the end of it couldn't give a flying duck whether they got even close to 4, as long as they got a half good story out of it. Just a have a read of Rucci's commentary on how the Swans had "offered" Grundy plus pick 22.

If you're in any doubt as to how much idea the media has on such matters, go have a look at their "predictions" regarding the coaching merry-go-round last year. They were completely blindsided by Lyon's move, they had no idea Sando was our preferred option, Leon Cameron was a dead cert for the Bulldogs right up until the dogs announced McCartney.

Or you can look at how Walker signed a contract a year in advance to go to GWS. Even our "own" Rhett Biglands stated it as fact, which personally I thought was a great laugh, as only a few days earlier I'd had a chat with an unquestionable source who had informed me GWS hadn't even made contact with Walker.

Why posters are getting so worked up about speculation from the media and the back and forth banter between fans on BF, and actually believe this is at all a representation of what is actually going on between the two clubs, is completely beyond me. Use your brains people, critically analyse things, don't be mindless drones. Just because Damien Barrett or Rucci or whomever "reports" that the Swans have offered pick 22 and White does not make it true. Look for quotes/statements from club officials, and even then realise that these officials are well versed in spin, they don't want to give away trade strategies etc, they'll offer the bare minimum and window dress it with complete fluff.

 

[Mattrox]

Wouldn't work for two reasons.

Say player breaks out in that year, was rated worth a 3rd rounder but turns into a great player worthy of a first rounder and walks out. Then you have the original club screwed over.

Champion data rankings don't work because it wouldn't work for defenders, they don't score high enough unless they are a possession whore.

But FA players have been playing for 8 years. If a player hasn't "broken out" in 7 years it is unlikely that the 8th would do it. And that year's perfomance would have to be included in the assessment anyway.

Champion Data can come up with measures for defenders. They just need the money to do it. Spoils, marks against leading to a scoring shot, there are ways to do it.

A key defender probably comes down the draft order anyway when assessing rookie talent. A good defender can be plucked out of the 2nd round pick anyway (Sam Shaw 2009).

But that is beside the point. If you lose a player (defender) to FA, the club may have the loss covered internally but be in requirement of a different position that they want to develop in the future (small forward or 2nd ruck).

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

JETTA spotted in adelaide, reported on tripple M...

i think i just made a mess

It's a connecting flight to Bunbury where he is visiting his family. He is not moving anywhere.

 

[Mattrox]

JETTA spotted in adelaide, reported on tripple M...

i think i just made a mess

The Sydney to WA fight could be through a change of flights via Adelaide..................

 

[headache1]

To gauge the flogness of someone like Michelangelo Rucci, one only needs to remember that the only prediction he got correct last trade period, was Ebert to Port. And that was after Ebert had declared he wanted a trade to the Power.

 

[Mismatched]

Wouldn't work for two reasons.

Say player breaks out in that year, was rated worth a 3rd rounder but turns into a great player worthy of a first rounder and walks out. Then you have the original club screwed over.

Champion data rankings don't work because it wouldn't work for defenders, they don't score high enough unless they are a possession whore.

The fairest way to assess compensation is quite clearly to look at age, past salary and future salary. This is the best way to fairly gauge a players true worth. Whilst its not perfect, it's simple and it's not open to interpretation and opinion.

Whilst I rate the CD ratings extremely highly, they are not perfect and CD themselves recognise this. At the end of the day they are only a guide and considering the complexities and intricacies of AFL, it is impossible to truly rate a players performance through statistics.

 

[FAITH]

Just watched the VFL GF.

Would love to see GHS in the tri-colours.

Do whatever it takes Crows!

They are trying hard which is all we can ask....

 

[BrissyCrow]

Understood - Adelaide are in the same basket. Adelaide have never had a draft pick inside the top-7, other than players who have subsequently found their way to the Crows by way of trade - long after their value had fallen significantly.

The fact remains though - Tippett is/was Adelaide's highest paid player, he will very soon by Sydney's highest paid player. If you want to gain something of quality, you have to give up something of quality in return.

I'm more than happy to acknowledge that Adelaide/Sydney deals have been fair & equitable, and usually sorted out fairly quickly as well. I expect things to be a bit different this time around, because the calibre of player involved is entirely different. In the past we were dealing with minor players and nothing draft picks. Now we're talking about the movement of Adelaide's highest paid player. Massive difference, hence the additional angst associated with the deal.

Nobody is hoping for, let alone expecting, a "massive win in the deal for the crows". It's simply not going to happen. Tippett's value is 2x first round picks, one in the top-10, the other in the 11-20 range. That's not unreasonable and it's not a massive win. It's the value Mick Malthouse (who has ties to neither club) set - and it sits quite reasonably when you consider the other deals which have been done this year. It's up to Sydney as to how they come up with those picks, or the equivalent in player terms.

Maybe in the first year of his contract, due to the backending of his contract. I doubt that either of these players are on more, when the contract is viewed on a per-year basis.

I have been saying the same thing all through this post. What you have written to me is simply common sense. The crows rated Tippett, The Swans rate him (given their offer). What we are looking for is as you have stated. To me this all makes sense. We are not being greedy.

What doesnt make sense is that Sydney put in this huge offer to Tippett without thinking what would be an acceptable trade. Obviously Tippetts management has been feeding the Swans horse shit but again the Swans should have known what would be an acceptable trade.

 

[TasCrow]

They are trying hard which is all we can ask....

Are they planning to do something similar to last year with crouch and send Sando and Danger to woo him?

 

[cmndstab]

But FA players have been playing for 8 years. If a player hasn't "broken out" in 7 years it is unlikely that the 8th would do it. And that year's perfomance would have to be included in the assessment anyway.

Champion Data can come up with measures for defenders. They just need the money to do it. Spoils, marks against leading to a scoring shot, there are ways to do it.

Champion Data already has those measures, and considerably more. They record an enormous, absolutely enormous amount of data.

The problem is they don't do any statistical analysis on the data, they just provide it to clubs (for a price!) as is and let the clubs use it however they see fit.