Tippett's Gone - READ RULES BEFORE POSTING

[Wood_Duck]

Bradshaw, slightly different scenario but was traded unwillingly.

Bradshaw signed off on his own trade. Not even close.

 

[Bob Neil]

From @TradeRadio: "If it's a round one selection and Jesse White for Kurt Tippett, then Adelaide have been mightily ripped off," says @thelistmanager

#herehere #areyoulisteningnobes

 

[Cap]

Stiffy_18 whilst I agree with you, I think we need to wait until we get confirmation that we need to either burn down Westpac Centre, or not bother to renew.

 

[Tex Support]

I really struggle to believe that anyone with any life experience at all would have ever given such a threat any credibility whatsoever. So much so that threatening something like this knowing full well you had no intention of following through was more likely to cause the club embarrassment than the current situation.

Harper laughed it off and Id be very confident it would have been laughed off by anyone we chose to float it with.

I cannot accept that representatives of any club we were dealing with would have been gullible enough to buy that story.

It's a pity I can only like this post once.

 

[Vantz]

So disappointed Jesse White is likely to come to our club. He is already behind Jenkins and McKernan! He is a waste of a slot on our list and will join Tambling as a delisting next season. I would rather take 22 alone!

 

[MattyB_76]

This is BS and you know it. When is the last time a club picked up a $1mill a year contract in the PSD against his will?

When was the last time a player went to the PSD with a $1M price tag? The answer to both questions could be 'never'.

 

[Wood_Duck]

From @TradeRadio: "If it's a round one selection and Jesse White for Kurt Tippett, then Adelaide have been mightily ripped off," says @thelistmanager

#herehere #areyoulisteningnobes

Terry is a clever guy, no doubt about it.

 

[feenix67]

Trade Radio ‏@traderadio
"If it's a round one selection and Jesse White for Kurt Tippett, then Adelaide have been mightily ripped off," says @thelistmanager

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[Heafy83]

He's worth it and everyone knows it. Carlton & GWS would be more than happy to pay that contract.

In any case, there's a very good chance that they'd only have to cover the first year of that contract. If he wants out at the end of 2013, then they only have to pay the first year of his contract and his new club pays the last 3 years.

It's all about risk vs reward. In Tippett's case, the potential reward is extremely high - and the risk is relatively low. The cost in $$ terms is mid-range - high, but probably short term. The cost in draft picks is negligible if he opts for the ND, indeed there is significant scope for them to profit massively in terms of draft picks gained vs draft picks used, should he request a trade after year 1 of his contract.

Then why didn't we offer him $1mill a year?

It makes no sense for GWS to implement that strategy. It just wastes time and development of one of their young brigade. They will already have the highest picks etc in next year's draft so trying to grab Tippett only to on trade him for something like that is pointless.

Carlton is the only other club I can see taking the risk because it could bring them closer to a flag but even then Malthouse is not one to take massive risks like this and he hates players who have an all about me attitude. I would also question how much room they would have in their cap or even be able to pay. I dare say they may try and pay the min salary cap over the next few years to help save money and pay their $9mill debt.

 

[Heafy83]

When was the last time a player went to the PSD with a $1M price tag? The answer to both questions could be 'never'.

There is a reason for this....... think about it

 

[Stiffy_18]

Stiffy_18 whilst I agree with you, I think we need to wait until we get confirmation that we need to either burn down Westpac Centre, or not bother to renew.

Look Cap I agree with this but there is too much smoke to suggest it is anything but what is being reported. And honestly, just look at our history in trading in the last few years and tell me that those reports don't look like they are remotely hospital.

Those reports are so AFC hierarchy it is not even funny. In fact it is bloody scary!

 

[Vader]

Just to throw a spanner in those plans, Vader.

A draftee doesn't automatically get a 2 year contract. If they are drafted after a certain round, it's whatever deal the club wants.

Example: Orren Stephenson - Drafted #78 in 2011, and is out of contract now.

Whether Kirt would last until that cut-off is a different story.

There are two relevant rules at play here. The one which applies to Stephenson is covered in para 4.6 of the Player Rules book:

4.6 Minimum Contract Term for Certain Players
When a First Year Draft Choice Player is first listed by an AFL Club, that Player and the AFL Club shall enter into a playing contract for a minimum term of two AFL Seasons except in the case of a Player who has previously been listed as a Rookie at any AFL Club or the Player will be 23 years or over as at the 31st day of December immediately following the most recent National Draft Selection Meeting.

As you can see, there is no round cut-off. There is an age cut-off and exemptions for players who were previously on rookie lists.

Stephenson was born in 1982 and is now 30. He was 29 at the time he was drafted, so Geelong were not obliged to offer him a multi-year contract.

The rule which applies to Tippett's situation is as follows:

4.5.2 Nominated Football Payments
4.5.2.1 Offer and acceptance
(a) A Player, (other than a first year draft choice Player or such a Player in his second year), may specify in the nomination lodged pursuant to Rule 4.4.3 the Football Payments which he will require if he is selected at a Draft Selection Meeting.
(b) By so specifying the Football Payments he will require, the Player shall be taken to have made an offer to the Club which selects him at a Draft Selection Meeting, to accept employment in return for the Football Payments so specified.
(c) The Club which selects a Player who has specified the Football Payments which he will require shall be deemed to have accepted the offer set out in (b) above.
(d) Immediately following the Draft Selection Meeting, the Player and the Club to whom (c) above applies, shall execute a Contract of Service providing for the Football Payments specified by the Player in accordance with (a) above.
(e) If a Player nominates his Football Payments he must do so for a minimum period of two years.
4.5.2.2 Payments actually paid
For the purposes of the Total Player Payment provisions contained in these Rules, the Football Payments nominated under Rule 4.5.2.1 (whether or not such payments are made) shall be treated as Football Payments of the Club which drafted the Player for the period specified by the Player in the Nomination Form unless the payments actually paid to the Player exceed the amount set out in the Nomination Form in which case such greater amount shall be treated as Football Payments for the purposes of the Club's Total Player Payments.

In specifying contract terms, he must do so for a minimum period of 2 years (from para e).

Para 4.5.2.2 is there to prevent clubs from taking advantage of backloading. If he demands $1M per year, for four years, they can quite happily pay him $600k, $600k, $1.4M, $1.4M - but the AFL treats it as $1M, $1M, $1.4M, $1.4M for salary cap purposes.

 

[ruscy002]

This is BS and you know it. When is the last time a club picked up a $1mill a year contract in the PSD against his will?

If these clubs were prepared to grab him they would be in his ear now. Bulcher has even been quoted as saying they had not been approached by GWS.

I'm willing to bet my bigfooty account if it got that far he would still make it all the way to Sydney in the PSD. However it wont get that far because the Crows know this and they'd rather get something for him than nothing by the looks of it.

When has a million dollar per year player ended up in the PSD recently? Unlike 100% of players who end up in the PSD, Tippett could go to any team and improve them structurally.

 

[Bacon8]

There is a reason for this....... think about it

In past years, the salary cap was lower, so the chances for a million dollar salary were way lower??

 

[Cap]

Look Cap I agree with this but there is too much smoke to suggest it is anything but what is being reported. And honestly, just look at our history in trading in the last few years and tell me that those reports don't look like they are remotely hospital.

Those reports are so AFC hierarchy it is not even funny. In fact it is bloody scary!

we actually haven't had a real response

that is the most disappointing part.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Really?

It was sheer fantasy.

No way. It was perfect common sense. We should of not even sat at the table with Sydney until Wednesday of the last week. What message would of that sent Kurt and Blucher and Sydney? We should of told them we are more interested in trying to get players to the club and are not fussed one bit about Kurt and as far as we are concerned we are just happy he is gone.

In negotiating there is one solid rule. TAKE CONTROL...

It is why a good salesman gets you to follow them around. They are in control of the process.

Sydney and Kurt have been in control of this whole proccess. That is why we have never had a chance.

 

[Heafy83]

In past years, the salary cap was lower, so the chances for a million dollar salary were way lower??

Yes that is one but its because there is only normally one team who can afford such a contract and want that player. So many things have to line up for this to happen.
If Sydney actually thought there was any risk in them losing him in the PSD we would be getting far better compensation.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Is there any chance AFC will reneg on this crap at the last minute.

C'MON AFC show some balls!

Why the hell are we making Sydney stronger for no cost, no risk...and even off-loading their rubbish!

I can just see it, we will use 23 for some secondary trade which will act as the excuse. If that trade involves getting rid of yet another player for a pick upgrade then our eventual selection will have a lot of pressure on them!

Rohan or a pick better than ~12 or PSD.

 

[Gets!]

can't the AFC give us some sort of an update?!?!

 

[Vader]

This is BS and you know it. When is the last time a club picked up a $1mill a year contract in the PSD against his will?

If these clubs were prepared to grab him they would be in his ear now. Bulcher has even been quoted as saying they had not been approached by GWS.

I'm willing to bet my bigfooty account if it got that far he would still make it all the way to Sydney in the PSD. However it wont get that far because the Crows know this and they'd rather get something for him than nothing by the looks of it.

When is the last time a $1M player went into the ND or PSD? Ball went through, largely because he had well known injury concerns and refused to do medicals anywhere other than Collingwood. Even then, he wasn't close to being a $1M player. Nick Stevens wanted to go to Collingwood, but ended up at Carlton instead. Not a $1M player though.

Having a $1M player in the ND or PSD is completely unprecedented - as in there is no true guide either for or against him getting to his preferred destination. What we do know is that GWS and Carlton have both expressed interest in trading for him, both are capable of meeting his contractual demands, and both have picks in both ND and PSD before Sydney. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Tippett's desired end state is unlikely to pan out if he's forced into the draft system.

 

[Wood_Duck]

It's a pity I can only like this post once.

Lets face it If I were on the other side of the desk and Harper and Noble came in and told me they were going to redraft Tippett, Id have pissed myself laughing. If a few people around here were being honest they would have to.

 

[Scott Van Persett]

If we are going to accept pick 22 +/- White, we may as well only accept the pick.

White doesn't sound from Sydney supporters like he has much upside, will probably only play in SANFL, and we will help Sydney by taking a player who is already contracted to them for the next year so that they then have more room in their salary cap. I read somewhere he was contracted $300,000 so why should we help them out unless we tell them they have to pay his contract for the next year in their salary cap

 

[Ravenous Crow]

This is not directed at you, but this has been floated by many as the way we should have approached the trade.

If you are going to make such a threat, you have to be believable. I really struggle to believe that anyone with any life experience at all would have ever given such a threat any credibility whatsoever. So much so that threatening something like this knowing full well you had no intention of following through was more likely to cause the club embarrassment than the current situation.

Harper laughed it off and Id be very confident it would have been laughed off by anyone we chose to float it with.

I cannot accept that representatives of any club we were dealing with would have been gullible enough to buy that story.

If you are going to use that sort of threat as your baseball bat, you have to believe that you will follow through with it. If you don't believe it, nor will anyone else.

They didn't have to come out and make a threat.

But neither should they have publicly dismissed the notion.

All that was needed when asked about the PSD was a simple "Well we're confident the trade will eventuate and we'd rather not discuss the idea".

 

[Slippery Pete]

But he also had only one way of getting to that party and that was via trade!

The problem with the AFC is that they get narky when they get crossed, come out puffing their chest and talking tough but when it comes to walking the walk we become soft and can't do it. That is a MASSIVE problem with our "leadership" and I use that term very loosely.

Sometimes it actually pays off to stand up for a principle and what you believe in. The weakest are those that constantly "do the right thing" so that we don't make anyone feel uncomfortable.

I could not see any of the great leaders in the AFL or anywhere do what AFC are doing right about now. Do you think Bucky Cunningham would have bent over like this?!

We are talking about a man with great leadership and a resume that our own Steven Trigg won't achieve in he lived for another 500 years.

I am sick and tired of forking out $1000s EVERY single year to a club that is run by a bunch of pussies that could not lead their way out of a phone box. If this deal goes down as reported, they should not bother sending out my membership renewal packs because I am just not interested in being associated with a bunch of muppets that lack principle and leadership.

We will come out with a spin, play the victim in all this! Well guess what?! You are only victim in life if you allow yourself to be one and those running the show keep doing it over and over and over again, expecting a different results. That in itself is a definition of insanity!

Welcome to the dark side.

 

[Iva Bigun]

But he also had only one way of getting to that party and that was via trade!

We will come out with a spin, play the victim in all this! Well guess what?! You are only victim in life if you allow yourself to be one and those running the show keep doing it over and over and over again, expecting a different results. That in itself is a definition of insanity!

Are you suggesting a liking for S&M in the Crows management Stiffy