Tippett's Gone - READ RULES BEFORE POSTING

[moogerfooger]

Before this saga blew up, I was hoping we were not going to retain him on the rumoured $800k a year.

IMO that is biggest (perhaps only) win in this entire thing. We aint paying him.

that and the removal of a cancer from the playing group.

 

[jo172]

I know HE has to make his salary desires known, but now if he writes in the Sydney offer word for word, how is that not manipulation? AND is the figure averaged over the 4 years? Or is it taken as requested yearly on the offer? Sorry to be so obtuse... I'm just trying to get my head around it.

Because it's not. Any team is allowed to take him on those terms. The only way the draft can be tampered is if there is something that would prevent any other club from taking him under the same terms and conditions as any other club could.

As Sydney have the last pick in the PSD any other club in the league willing to meet those ridiculous salary demands is free to take him.

And when filling out the form the figure is not averaged out. You can structure it by year.

 

[baldandbroke]

Not wanting to move the discussion away from the legal draft manipulation too far - but on the subject of 3rd party deals ... this was posted on another site:

List of VISY Environmental Ambassadors for 2012:
Chris Judd
Dennis Armfield
Paul Bower
Dave Ellard
Michael Jamison
Matthew Kruezer
Jeffrey Garlett
Aaron Joseph
Kane Lucas
Jarrad Waite
Rhys O'Keeffe
Marcus Davies
Jordan Russell
Ed Curnow
Eddie Betts
Sam Rowe

 

[Mego Red]

Let us assume the story on the salary is correct for arguments sake.

The Swans made the offer dollar wise.

Adelaide by its nefarious dealings put the value of the trade on his head. You. Nobody else.

You own it. Wear it. Stop trying to blame everyone else for your clubs gross incompetence at best and at worst flagrant cheating and lies. It really is quite boring reading (endlessly) about how Tippett should be bashed (really - I mean REALLY?), he has no friends, it is all the fault of everyone else fault - the AFL are cheats, Sydney are cheats, Judd is a cheat, Melbourne lost some games, Carlton suck, Brisbane did this once, Kurt's father wants it all for his son (what a revelation) ..........the list is endless.

Harden up princesses but more importantly grow up. You are whining like 5 year olds.

You did very bad things. Very bad. Own them. Or shut up.

Let's discuss a few of the gross errors and ignorances in your post.

"Adelaide by its nefarious dealings put the value of the trade on his head. You. Nobody else."

We set the value as a minimum of a second round pick. You offered what could be argued was less than that - a pick outside of the first 18 and asking us to absorb a salary dump from your list. In any event - we only established what the minimum trade would be. All we did was express THE AFL'S LAWS ON TRADING. You, Kurt Tippett, can only be traded to a team that you agree to go to at the end of your contract, and we will require a minimum acceptable value for you in order to facilitate this trade. Nothing illegal in that - if anything, it's obvious.

"Stop trying to blame everyone else for your clubs gross incompetence at best and at worst flagrant cheating and lies. "

You'll discover a lot of people on this board who believe Trigg and others should be sacked. But that's for incompetence - cheating is a ridiculous overstatement, only really said by folks who are lapping up the Age's outrageous circulation grab.

• It really is quite boring reading (endlessly) about how Tippett should be bashed (really - I mean REALLY?). I think his lack of integrity and how he has manipulated the club means it is fair for folks here to resent him. He's made the chopice that he doesn't need to be liked and that he prioritises his own interests, which is fair enough.
• he has no friends. Hard for any of us to know, but fair enough to quote media reports or things that are said by those close to the playing group.
• it is all the fault of everyone else fault. Well, I guess I agree with that ...
• the AFL are cheats. No, I don;t think anyone has said that, though they leak information to puiblically improve their position, which is pretty low.
• Sydney are cheats. Mostly foolish and assholes, and obviously trying to manipulate the draft by not offering commercial compensation.
• Judd is a cheat. No one thinks that or has said it.
• Melbourne lost some games. This I think is probably true.
• Carlton suck. This is undeniable.
• Brisbane did this once. No idea what this is talking about.
• Kurt's father wants it all for his son (what a revelation). Pity he's been so foolish about how he can receive it. Has played this situation terribly.

 

[Crow-eater]

Sydney's offering him $3.5m over 4 years with 2 extra years possible?




Have fun with that

 

[cmndstab]

MarkP - I don't mind you discussing the deal and the potential trade for Tippett, but please don't come on here and tell us to harden up or to shut up. It's a team forum, it's 100% expected that posters are going to be emotional or passionate about their club. The same thing would happen on your team forum, or any other. Be respectful and discuss the issue at hand, not the people discussing it. Please don't make me ask again.


As for the Crows setting the terms of the deal, the reality is if Sydney wanted to trade for Tippett, they certainly stuffed it up. If they had made a reasonable trade offer, one even in the ballpark of Tippett's true value, they would have him on their books already. Instead, they've now got to hope that he makes it through to them in the draft, and to make that likely they've got to offer him a contract way in excess of what he is worth, both in terms of potential output, and in terms of the contract length. The likely outcome of this process is that Sydney will have their extra salary allowances removed, for the benefit of gaining the services of a player whose best is certainly exceptional in the AFL, but has far from proven that he can even remain on the park for 4-6 years, let alone dominate during that time.

And as for Tippett, he has either been receiving exceptionally poor advice, or has been ignoring what advice he has got. Any manager worth his salt should have told Tippett that this deal was not going to go through. It literally could not go through. The AFL would never have signed off on it in a fit. His manager should have done some due diligence and asked Sydney what they were willing to offer up for trade, and when Sydney said 23 + White, he should have advised Tippett to look elsewhere, or risk having his illegal contract exposed. It's absolutely flabbergasting that he would nominate Sydney as his preferred club knowing that they were going to offer peanuts, so either his manager poorly advised him, or simply didn't do his job. Meanwhile his overbearing father has stuck his nose where it doesn't belong, trying to micromanage his son instead of leaving it to the professionals, and in the process, I suspect, has influenced Tippett to make some very poor decisions. I don't think anyone seriously wants Tippett to get beaten up, but it's more than reasonable for supporters to be a bit upset at the way he and his camp have handled this whole situation.

Yes, the Crows screwed up and screwed up badly. Even if the commission was to find us guilty of all the additional charges, we have at the very least admitted to having clauses in Tippett's contract that were not ratified by the AFL. At best, we are guilty of bending over backwards to accommodate a player who didn't really want to be here. We all recognise that. But we're not the only ones who have handled this situation very poorly.

 

[MarkP]

Yes, but can any other (would any other) pay those ridiculous amounts to him? By announcing this offer publicly, they effectively blow any other club out of the water. Is that not manipulating the system?

Ridiculous amounts?

Wasn't he worth a round 1 pick and a top line player?

Or more at one stage wasn't it.

Wasn't that the bone of contention? Wasn't that Sydney ripping you off via the "poor" trade offer?

What do you suggest his salary should be then. Please. I am fascinated.

Seriously. You people need to get the talking points sorted. This board oscillates between Tippett being worth enormous amounts on the trade table to a being a numpty not worthy of a pay cheque and a guy that should be bashed because he wants to play footy elsewhere and is seeking the best possible deal for himself in doing so.

Yes. I can see why people wanting to improve or change their employment need to be bashed. Makes perfect sense.

Anyway....which is it. Valuable or not? By all means have an opinion. Just pick one of the contrasting ones. It is intellectually vacuous to take all sides of an argument and claim your are correct.

 

[cmndstab]

Seriously. You people need to get the talking points sorted. This board oscillates between Tippett being worth enormous amounts on the trade table to a being a numpty not worthy of a pay cheque and a guy that should be bashed because he wants to play footy elsewhere and is seeking the best possible deal for himself in doing so.

I'm sure you can see how ridiculous it is to offer an average pick and a mediocre player, while offering one of the largest salaries in the AFL at the same time.

It would be infinitely more reasonable to have offered a good young player + mediocre pick, and pay Tippett a salary closer to say $600k/year than to offer peanuts at the trade table but pay him upwards of $850k/year plus. That is not trying to claim that he is valuable and not valuable at the same time. He's valuable, damn valuable. It's aligning his salary and trade value together.

Look, I get why you guys did it. Why offer more than you need to, right? Except you did need to offer more than you did, if you wanted to get the trade done. This was not a case of Adelaide playing "hard ball". What you offered could not get the trade done. If your intention was to obtain Tippett's services via a trade, then you guys erred.

If you want to claim that your plan all along was to force Tippett into the PSD and buy his services there with a large contract, then fine, well played. Of course in that case it probably didn't matter what we did, we were going to lose him for nothing.




All of this is a separate issue to the illegal contractual clauses, which are errors that fall entirely on the shoulders of both the Crows and the Tippett camp.

 

[MarkP]

MarkP - I don't mind you discussing the deal and the potential trade for Tippett, but please don't come on here and tell us to harden up or to shut up. It's a team forum, it's 100% expected that posters are going to be emotional or passionate about their club. The same thing would happen on your team forum, or any other. Be respectful and discuss the issue at hand, not the people discussing it. Please don't make me ask again.


As for the Crows setting the terms of the deal, the reality is if Sydney wanted to trade for Tippett, they certainly stuffed it up. If they had made a reasonable trade offer, one even in the ballpark of Tippett's true value, they would have him on their books already. Instead, they've now got to hope that he makes it through to them in the draft, and to make that likely they've got to offer him a contract way in excess of what he is worth, both in terms of potential output, and in terms of the contract length. The likely outcome of this process is that Sydney will have their extra salary allowances removed, for the benefit of gaining the services of a player whose best is certainly exceptional in the AFL, but has far from proven that he can even remain on the park for 4-6 years, let alone dominate during that time.

And as for Tippett, he has either been receiving exceptionally poor advice, or has been ignoring what advice he has got. Any manager worth his salt should have told Tippett that this deal was not going to go through. It literally could not go through. The AFL would never have signed off on it in a fit. His manager should have done some due diligence and asked Sydney what they were willing to offer up for trade, and when Sydney said 23 + White, he should have advised Tippett to look elsewhere, or risk having his illegal contract exposed. It's absolutely flabbergasting that he would nominate Sydney as his preferred club knowing that they were going to offer peanuts, so either his manager poorly advised him, or simply didn't do his job. Meanwhile his overbearing father has stuck his nose where it doesn't belong, trying to micromanage his son instead of leaving it to the professionals, and in the process, I suspect, has influenced Tippett to make some very poor decisions. I don't think anyone seriously wants Tippett to get beaten up, but it's more than reasonable for supporters to be a bit upset at the way he and his camp have handled this whole situation.

Yes, the Crows screwed up and screwed up badly. Even if the commission was to find us guilty of all the additional charges, we have at the very least admitted to having clauses in Tippett's contract that were not ratified by the AFL. At best, we are guilty of bending over backwards to accommodate a player who didn't really want to be here. We all recognise that. But we're not the only ones who have handled this situation very poorly.

Sure.

Fair call I will cop the not telling you shut up. That was rude yes.

Harden up not so much. 900 pages of angst? by the harden up.

As for your take on the trade I refute it. Totally. Written from an AFC perspective which is fine, becasue as you point out this is your board, but it lacks any basis is reality and is an attempt to absolve yourselves of any incompetence and is evidence of exactly what I was saying.

You then double down and blame Tippett. Again. You make some other guesses that Tippett "knew" what Sydney would offer. Like a lot of this thread you guess.

And then we come to the final paragraph where again you cast around to include whoever you can in the net of stupid.

Here is a thought.

What if AFC just said to Tippett at the start we will pay you $x and not do a dodgy deal to assist you in the future?

There is only 1 entity to blame here. And you have validated my earlier post.

 

[Cap]

Ridiculous amounts?

Wasn't he worth a round 1 pick and a top line player?

Or more at one stage wasn't it.

Wasn't that the bone of contention? Wasn't that Sydney ripping you off via the "poor" trade offer?

What do you suggest his salary should be then. Please. I am fascinated.

Seriously. You people need to get the talking points sorted. This board oscillates between Tippett being worth enormous amounts on the trade table to a being a numpty not worthy of a pay cheque and a guy that should be bashed because he wants to play footy elsewhere and is seeking the best possible deal for himself in doing so.

Yes. I can see why people wanting to improve or change their employment need to be bashed. Makes perfect sense.

Anyway....which is it. Valuable or not? By all means have an opinion. Just pick one of the contrasting ones. It is intellectually vacuous to take all sides of an argument and claim your are correct.

A few things.

What the Crows are prepared to pay Tippett is completely irrelevant to the topic, this issue is what is Sydney prepared to pay.

Valuable is a subjective matter and it is influenced not by the selling party, but the party doing the buying.

now you tell me, what is an AFL being offered $1M (reportly) worth in trade week? a speculative pick and a rank outsider?So think Gary Abblett, Chris Judd........

In the context of the AFL system, Sydney offered $1M per year, $1M per year players don't go for a speculative pick and a top up player (just ask Chris Judd), it really isn't the AFC fans fault your club over promised and under delivered.

SO stop tying to pin Tippets value on the Crows fans who are looking at it in terms of the impact to our team (which some would suggest was not what we have been paying him) it is all driven by Sydneys and the markets preparedness to pay.

edit -also Crows fans are not a collective, so individual people will have individual thoughts - trying to suggest the whole forum of individual posters will have the same opinion is laughable.

 

[cmndstab]

Sure.

Fair call I will cop the not telling you shut up. That was rude yes.

Harden up not so much. 900 pages of angst? by the harden up.

Look, I don't care whether you think it's reasonable or not. I'm not going to ask again.

As for your take on the trade I refute it. Totally. Written from an AFC perspective which is fine, becasue as you point out this is your board, but it lacks any basis is reality and is an attempt to absolve yourselves of any incompetence and is evidence of exactly what I was saying.

Can you indicate which part of it is incorrect? Or are you saying that all of it is wrong? The AFL made it very clear that investigations were going to occur when it looked likely that we might accept the deal because they could plainly see that something dirty was going on. The deal was never going to be ratified by the AFL.

You then double down and blame Tippett. Again. You make some other guesses that Tippett "knew" what Sydney would offer. Like a lot of this thread you guess.

I was pretty clear, I would have thought. Either Tippett's manager knew what Sydney would offer and advised Tippett to go ahead anyway, which would be idiotic, or he had no idea in which case he didn't do his due diligence. It is foolish for a manager to advise a player to publicly announce he will only go to one club, when that club lacks the capital or the desire to get the trade done. It is absolutely moronic when that same player has an illegal clause in his contract that could see him deregistered. Regardless of what happened behind closed doors, Tippett's manager let him down very, very badly.

Given what we hear in the media about Tippett's father and his overbearing, micromanaging nature, it is reasonable to think that he is in the same boat the as Blucher. In Tony's case, however, he can be forgiven - he's not an expert, he just wants the best for his son. Hopefully after this sorry saga he will have finally realised that meddling in his son career is not the way to get the best for his son, and he'll leave it to the professionals next time.

Of course, if the media has misrepresented him (and it wouldn't be the first time) then I'm being unfair to him in the above and I apologise for that. For now though I can only go on what I hear.

And then we come to the final paragraph where again you cast around to include whoever you can in the net of stupid.

Here is a thought.

What if AFC just said to Tippett at the start we will pay you $x and not do a dodgy deal to assist you in the future?

There is only 1 entity to blame here. And you have validated my earlier post.

I have been very open in my acceptance of the Crows' errors in this situation. We should not have made the deal the begin with and we will have to wear the consequences. Nobody really disputes that.

To say that we are the only party that acted poorly here is ridiculous. It takes two parties to sign a contract, so at the very least the Tippett camp is in the same boat we are. The issue with Sydney is a separate one. Did they actually want to trade for Tippett? Because if they did, they messed it up. If they didn't really mind either way then fair enough, but that seems unlikely given they insane amount of money they're apparently willing to throw at him.

 

[Cap]

Well in reality, If Sydeny had offered suitable and fair compensation for Tippett we wouldn't be having this issue.

 

[jenny61_99]

Sure.

Fair call I will cop the not telling you shut up. That was rude yes.

Harden up not so much. 900 pages of angst? by the harden up.

As for your take on the trade I refute it. Totally. Written from an AFC perspective which is fine, becasue as you point out this is your board, but it lacks any basis is reality and is an attempt to absolve yourselves of any incompetence and is evidence of exactly what I was saying.

You then double down and blame Tippett. Again. You make some other guesses that Tippett "knew" what Sydney would offer. Like a lot of this thread you guess.

And then we come to the final paragraph where again you cast around to include whoever you can in the net of stupid.

Here is a thought.

What if AFC just said to Tippett at the start we will pay you $x and not do a dodgy deal to assist you in the future?

There is only 1 entity to blame here. And you have validated my earlier post.

You do realise you are bagging a moderator right?

 

[cmndstab]

You do realise you are bagging a moderator right?

He's allowed to debate the issue with me jen As long as he is respectful about it.

 

[Crow-eater]

Well in reality, If Sydeny had offered suitable and fair compensation for Tippett we wouldn't be having this issue.

Come on Cap, this isn't Sydney's fault. It's ours. I mean we are horrible cheats and should be punished. And poor Sydney having to deal with cheats, oh it's just such a blight on them. The poor souls.

 

[bjn1960]

Well in reality, If Sydeny had offered suitable and fair compensation for Tippett we wouldn't be having this issue.

This is certainly not an intellectually vacuous statement!

 

[Heafy83]

Ridiculous amounts?

Wasn't he worth a round 1 pick and a top line player?

Or more at one stage wasn't it.

Wasn't that the bone of contention? Wasn't that Sydney ripping you off via the "poor" trade offer?

What do you suggest his salary should be then. Please. I am fascinated.

Seriously. You people need to get the talking points sorted. This board oscillates between Tippett being worth enormous amounts on the trade table to a being a numpty not worthy of a pay cheque and a guy that should be bashed because he wants to play footy elsewhere and is seeking the best possible deal for himself in doing so.

Yes. I can see why people wanting to improve or change their employment need to be bashed. Makes perfect sense.

Anyway....which is it. Valuable or not? By all means have an opinion. Just pick one of the contrasting ones. It is intellectually vacuous to take all sides of an argument and claim your are correct.

Lets put it this way. If say 5-6 years ago when Goodes was at the absolute Peak of his game and would have been your highest paid player, or if not close too, Would have you accepted pick 23 + White for him in a trade?

 

[Godallblighty]

He's allowed to debate the issue with me jen As long as he is respectful about it.

Cmndstab: patience of a saint. Kudos.

 

[Tex200]

So sydney posters can come in here, be abusive, be inflammatory and that's fine.

I am then edited for responding.

Brilliant.

 

[Cap]

Come on Cap, this isn't Sydney's fault. It's ours. I mean we are horrible cheats and should be punished. And poor Sydney having to deal with cheats, oh it's just such a blight on them. The poor souls.

I know, I wonder if we could pick up Gary Abblett for Brad Symes and pick 20?

 

[The_Answer3]

He's allowed to debate the issue with me jen As long as he is respectful about it.

Shut up fun boy!



Everyone's guilty, just can't believe anyone with the business qualifications of Trigg and Reid would agree to putting anything remotely close to what's being reported into writting.

 

[Tex200]

Given how dodgy the tippets are I'm guessing that 2 year option with 20 game min. was set up to pad a nice damages claim if he is suspended for a few games next year

 

[jackster83]

So sydney posters can come in here, be abusive, be inflammatory and that's fine.

I am then edited for responding.

Brilliant.

I got carded for telling one of them it was past their bed time. It was my fault though - I should have typed my reply in crayon font.

 

[Iva Bigun]

Let us assume the story on the salary is correct for arguments sake.

The Swans made the offer dollar wise.

Adelaide by its nefarious dealings put the value of the trade on his head. You. Nobody else.

You own it. Wear it. Stop trying to blame everyone else for your clubs gross incompetence at best and at worst flagrant cheating and lies. It really is quite boring reading (endlessly) about how Tippett should be bashed (really - I mean REALLY?), he has no friends, it is all the fault of everyone else fault - the AFL are cheats, Sydney are cheats, Judd is a cheat, Melbourne lost some games, Carlton suck, Brisbane did this once, Kurt's father wants it all for his son (what a revelation) ..........the list is endless.

Harden up princesses but more importantly grow up. You are whining like 5 year olds.

You did very bad things. Very bad. Own them. Or shut up.

I don't think Crows supporters are claiming that their club is squeaky clean and they know that a price will be paid, but you can't blame them for being upset that the reigning premiers have the ability to out bid all other clubs for a players services.

That just shouldn't be possible and the fact that it is just shows that the extra cap space you are gifted is an unfair advantage

 

[Bugga1962]

Ridiculous amounts?

Wasn't he worth a round 1 pick and a top line player?

Or more at one stage wasn't it.

Wasn't that the bone of contention? Wasn't that Sydney ripping you off via the "poor" trade offer?

What do you suggest his salary should be then. Please. I am fascinated.

Seriously. You people need to get the talking points sorted. This board oscillates between Tippett being worth enormous amounts on the trade table to a being a numpty not worthy of a pay cheque and a guy that should be bashed because he wants to play footy elsewhere and is seeking the best possible deal for himself in doing so.

Yes. I can see why people wanting to improve or change their employment need to be bashed. Makes perfect sense.

Anyway....which is it. Valuable or not? By all means have an opinion. Just pick one of the contrasting ones. It is intellectually vacuous to take all sides of an argument and claim your are correct.

I find it truly mind blowing the arrogance of the Syndey supporters. You are now using the argument that he IS worth a first round pick and a top line player to justify your club paying exceptional overs for him.

Incredibly only a month ago he was only worth pick 23 + Jesse White because thats what the market decided but now suddenly its not trade week his value has miraculously shot back up. Get a grip you morons dont come on our board and dribble that crap.

FWIW his salary is worth what someone is willing to pay. Your offer ( if true ) will be seen as overs by the majority of footy people and you know that.