Analysis Tom Hawkins - clearly not insignificant !

[catempire]

Was it Selwood who kicked deep to Menzel in the 3rd when he marked in the pocket? Menzel appeared to have space on his man and looked to be leading up the ground but then had to double back to mark overhead while falling backwards because instead of the ball being kicked in front if hi it was kicked ontop of his head.

So something that not just Hawkins deals with.

Was that the Cockatoo kick to the Moorabool/River pocket? If so, sorry, but it was perfect. Showed Cockatoo's absolute class to pick out where the space was I thought.

 

[nohairandfair]

Was that the Cockatoo kick to the Moorabool/River pocket? If so, sorry, but it was perfect. Showed Cockatoo's absolute class to pick out where the space was I thought.

Cockatoo was 45m out on a slight angle. The coaches would probably want him to take the shot on goal rather than execute a risky kick to a contest. EFA

 

[wcadams88]

Cockatoo was 35m out on a slight angle. The coaches would probably want him to take the shot on goal rather than execute a risky kick to a contest.

Gets them perfectly weighted more often than not

 

[catempire]

Cockatoo was 35m out on a slight angle. The coaches would probably want him to take the shot on goal rather than execute a risky kick to a contest.

Going by memory he marked on or around 50m.

Edit: video confirms. Marked just inside 50m. Passed from just outside 50m:

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

He got better delivery, but crucially i think we dealt with the poor entries better last night as well, halving more of those contests.

Hawk also worked harder leading and tackling.

Contrary to stereotype, he is actually quite a good wet weather player. I think he is a bit like Paul Couch, the wet just slows everyone down a tad back to his pace and he can excel.

Some may point to the 2011 grand final as Tom Hawkins' coming out party, but for me, this match in torrential rain against Brisbane in 2012 was the game where he showed that it wasn't an anomaly and that he was on his way to becoming a star.

 

[catempire]

Some may point to the 2011 grand final as Tom Hawkins' coming out party, but for me, this match in torrential rain against Brisbane in 2012 was the game where he showed that it wasn't an anomaly and that he was on his way to becoming a star.

I was fortunate enough to be there that night. Probably the best wet weather performance by a big bodied key forward I've seen live.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Was it Selwood who kicked deep to Menzel in the 3rd when he marked in the pocket? Menzel appeared to have space on his man and looked to be leading up the ground but then had to double back to mark overhead while falling backwards because instead of the ball being kicked in front if hi it was kicked ontop of his head.

So something that not just Hawkins deals with.

Also when Dangerfield was running down and belted the ball over EVERYONE's heads. That was so bad, it was funny.

 

[Saint]

When Hawkins was in front, he kicked goals.

That's what we've been saying all along!!

There were still times when he was behind his opponent and the opposition took easy marks.

The way to judge if Hawkins has improved his positioning is not how many goals he kicks, it's how many contests he makes, whether he wins or loses is largely irrelevant, we know the more he gets to the more he'll win, it's like he doesn't understand that.

Goals kicked from positioned behind his opponent = 0
Goals kicked when positioned in front or at least beside his opponent = 4.

There were posters defending him on here saying that him playing behind was part of the plan. They're the people who have been proven wrong by Saturday's performance.

play in front = goals.

It's like Hawkins adjusted his game for the weather (being in front more) and by some miracle (sarc) it resulted in him kicking more goals and getting to more contests and opening the whole forwardline up for guys like Stanley and Menzel.

He should play like it's a wet day every week, though he was far from perfect.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Going by memory he marked on or around 50m.

Edit: video confirms. Marked just inside 50m. Passed from just outside 50m:

View attachment 269264

Do you have a gif or short video of the play? Was a cracker of a kick, I don't want to make this about Cocky but he's gunna be a star.

 

[catempire]

Do you have a gif or short video of the play? Was a cracker of a kick, I don't want to make this about Cocky but he's gunna be a star.

From 3:40 into this:

 

[catempire]

Ahem.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Ahem.

We have some very overworked tumbleweeds around here atm.

 

[kickazz]

Even when outnumbered he is halving contests. It helps that we are not over handballing

 

[Cattery]

When Hawkins was in front, he kicked goals.

That's what we've been saying all along!!

There were still times when he was behind his opponent and the opposition took easy marks.

The way to judge if Hawkins has improved his positioning is not how many goals he kicks, it's how many contests he makes, whether he wins or loses is largely irrelevant, we know the more he gets to the more he'll win, it's like he doesn't understand that.

Goals kicked from positioned behind his opponent = 0
Goals kicked when positioned in front or at least beside his opponent = 4.

There were posters defending him on here saying that him playing behind was part of the plan. They're the people who have been proven wrong by Saturday's performance.

play in front = goals.

It's like Hawkins adjusted his game for the weather (being in front more) and by some miracle (sarc) it resulted in him kicking more goals and getting to more contests and opening the whole forwardline up for guys like Stanley and Menzel.

He should play like it's a wet day every week, though he was far from perfect.

Couldn't agree more, lead/get front position and he looks a far more threatening prospect.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

He truly is unselfish to a fault at times, but it worked very well on Friday. He clearly doesn't care about how many goals he kicks - at all - and he'll never win the Coleman because of that. But although his marking was a bit down on Friday night, that was a pretty perfect Hawkins game: Fifteen disposals, most of them contested, a couple of tackles, a couple of inside 50s and combined to kick or give off five goals (at least two of his assists were straightforward chances and he could have kicked four without any problems). Now he's on track for a 55-odd goal H&A season, which I think is pretty much exactly what we want from him.

 

[AM]

Even when outnumbered he is halving contests. It helps that we are not over handballing

It would help even further if we were more savvy in using the plus one or two who are available due to Hawk being double or triple teamed. As we did a bit with Stanley on Friday.

 

[dazbroncos]

It's performances like Stanley the other night that will help Hawkins. Bw Menzel, Stanley and even Kersten taking the heat off him.. It opens up more 1 on 1 for him.. And we All benefit from that

.Go Catters

 

[cats_09]

hmm.... We keep getting told on here that Hawkins applies no pressure and is somewhat useless defensively once the ball hits the ground. Article out today seems to suggest otherwise:

Forwards: Although ranked 14th, West Coast and Western Bulldogs are ranked lower, showing good teams can thrive without dominating in this area. Tom Hawkins is the sixth highest ranked forward for pressure and it's an area the Cats can improve.

Maybe he ain't so insignificant, and actually does have value up forward after all.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-08-...t-at-your-club?camefrom=EMCL_1227548_47152563

 

[catempire]

hmm.... We keep getting told on here that Hawkins applies no pressure and is somewhat useless defensively once the ball hits the ground. Article out today seems to suggest otherwise:

Forwards: Although ranked 14th, West Coast and Western Bulldogs are ranked lower, showing good teams can thrive without dominating in this area. Tom Hawkins is the sixth highest ranked forward for pressure and it's an area the Cats can improve.

Maybe he ain't so insignificant, and actually does have value up forward after all.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-08-...t-at-your-club?camefrom=EMCL_1227548_47152563

Hawkins myth #573 busted.

 

[JUBJUB]

He's kicked one less goal than Hawforns leading goalkicker

 

[Biggy_Boy]

He's kicked one less goal than Hawforns leading goalkicker

Hawthorn have a much more even spread of goalkickers than does Geelong. Hawthorn's 2nd, 3rd and 4th highest goalscoreers this season have scored more than Geelong's 2nd. If Geelong had that kind of spread of contribution across it forwards, then his struggles to hit the scoreboard hard wouldn't be so much the issue, which is really at the heart of the problem. Hawkins is Geelong's only real credible forward threat so if the forwardline doesn't function, it's all on him.

Could've helped alleviate the issue somewhat by keeping Steve Johnson, who has kicked more goals this year than any Geelong player bar Hawkins.

 

[leorex]

this part of the modern game I am pretty clueless

forwards and forward set ups etc
how to value a forward, I don't know

i blame the modern game for making me stupud

 

[SJ]

Hawthorn have a much more even spread of goalkickers than does Geelong. Hawthorn's 2nd, 3rd and 4th highest goalscoreers this season have scored more than Geelong's 2nd. If Geelong had that kind of spread of contribution across it forwards, then his struggles to hit the scoreboard hard wouldn't be so much the issue, which is really at the heart of the problem. Hawkins is Geelong's only real credible forward threat so if the forwardline doesn't function, it's all on him.

Could've helped alleviate the issue somewhat by keeping Steve Johnson, who has kicked more goals this year than any Geelong player bar Hawkins.

He did last year too. Wasn't required this year though.

 

[SJ]

hmm.... We keep getting told on here that Hawkins applies no pressure and is somewhat useless defensively once the ball hits the ground. Article out today seems to suggest otherwise:

Forwards: Although ranked 14th, West Coast and Western Bulldogs are ranked lower, showing good teams can thrive without dominating in this area. Tom Hawkins is the sixth highest ranked forward for pressure and it's an area the Cats can improve.

Maybe he ain't so insignificant, and actually does have value up forward after all.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-08-...t-at-your-club?camefrom=EMCL_1227548_47152563

Hawkins myth #573 busted.

I'd like to see more context around that stat before I bust that myth. Geelong gets more inside 50s than most teams and go to Hawkins a lot, so the ball would be in his vicinity much more than most other forwards. If the "pressure" metric is just a sum of how many times you did x, y and z, it wouldn't surprise me if he was highly rated in it. Doesn't mean in reality he necessarily provides a lot of pressure (but I don't really care about that for him anyway to be honest - he is not built for that, let other players do that).

 

[catempire]

I'd like to see more context around that stat before I bust that myth. Geelong gets more inside 50s than most teams and go to Hawkins a lot, so the ball would be in his vicinity much more than most other forwards. If the "pressure" metric is just a sum of how many times you did x, y and z, it wouldn't surprise me if he was highly rated in it. Doesn't mean in reality he necessarily provides a lot of pressure (but I don't really care about that for him anyway to be honest - he is not built for that, let other players do that).

Doesn't make any difference if, as it suggests, he rates more highly than his teammates.