Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[TBOW]

This is the best chance we've had for a premiership ever. This is the way other people will go about rebuilds. I have no doubt Macca is on the money. Happy to debate this with any of the blind unbelievers.

For us to win a premiership anytime soon the fringe of our list needs to improve drastically.
We severely lack depth & if you put us up against GWS or GoldCoast that will only highlight the problem.

In 08, 09, 10 we had Gia playing behind guys like Johnson, Hall & Acker - you look at our list now & he is our most dangerous forward - at 32 & playing half a game.

Our talent was thick across the ground & it needs to be to win finals.

I'm optimistic about the top end talent on our list, but it's the rest that needs to either improve drastically or we need to be smart about getting much more talent in quickly.

 

[willofwest]

If the rumours are true that Essendon are interested in JJ and Smith. And if GWS need tall defenders. Then maybe we could get Carlisle to GWS and Patton to us, using JJ, Smith, and some draft pick deals?

My 2 c's ( great looking spine )

How about
1:- jj and smith to Essendon for Carlisle
2:- a player and first round for Patton
3:- third round f/s pick
4:- second pick , fast, skilled mid sized midfielder/ defender

Upgrade Jong stays , Redpath to stay ??, and delist the usual suspects

 

[Dav1d]

My 2 c's ( great looking spine )

How about
1:- jj and smith to Essendon for Carlisle
2:- a player and first round for Patton
3:- third round f/s pick
4:- second pick , fast, skilled mid sized midfielder/ defender

Upgrade Jong stays , Redpath to stay ??, and delist the usual suspects

That would be an insult to Essendon and they'd probably laugh at us

 

[naydo1]

My 2 c's ( great looking spine )

How about
1:- jj and smith to Essendon for Carlisle
2:- a player and first round for Patton
3:- third round f/s pick
4:- second pick , fast, skilled mid sized midfielder/ defender

Upgrade Jong stays , Redpath to stay ??, and delist the usual suspects

Please tell me why you want Carlisle? Has been lucky not to get dropped in the last couple of weeks! Hes not the answer at all. We need to DRAFT a key forward who is 196cm + and weighs 100 kgs with the desire, engine and natural forward skills not recruit someone from another team who lacks intensity, desire and natural forward skills. Hes a defender not a forward.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

We need a key defender, too. We want Carlisle because he's been close to All-Australian, will be played in the right position (CHB) here and thus succeed, and he barracked for the Dogs as a kid (and practically still does, I've heard) so his heart will be in it. Not to mention that he seems a little bit disillusioned at Essendon at the moment.

 

[Metal]

Our first need is for a quality ball user off half back / wing, and a quality inside - outside player with genuine pace. The emphasis being on quality and therefore high draft picks. If everyone is saying we have a one paced midfield and our ball use is suspect, then we need to get in a different type of player to mix things up. Kolo sounds like he would have been what we needed in defence. A Suckling or a Birchall type is also what we need from the draft. For me, these are more of a priority than a forward for 2015..

Our first round pick should not be traded but be used in the national draft (unless, of course, we can somehow secure a great deal without giving up too much). How we are getting the ball into the forward line continues to be a major concern. We also have to cover for the loss of Murphy and Morris at some point.

Getting Carlisle would also be handy as he is a genuine defender. But at what cost? I'm not sure we can afford to give up anything like what the Bombers would want.

I think we should go with our current set up in the forward line, plus trade in a mid tier player.....but if they are any good, they won't come cheap. Dickson will be back, Jones will be stronger and Campbell fitter. I guess we could hope we can find for another Barry Hall. I am certainly not in favour of blowing the up place to get a Patton.

 

[naydo1]

We need a key defender, too. We want Carlisle because he's been close to All-Australian, will be played in the right position (CHB) here and thus succeed, and he barracked for the Dogs as a kid (and practically still does, I've heard) so his heart will be in it. Not to mention that he seems a little bit disillusioned at Essendon at the moment.

We have several key defenders already... yes he should go back to CHB for essendon. Right now tho we have Roughead, Morris, Williams, Talia, Roberts who are all key defenders... The only player we need in defense is a fast rebounding half back flank with good foot skills. We need a KEY FORWARD. A outside mid would be handy as well but we took Bonts instead of Aish. Bonts will turn out good but we needed a fast outsider player and Aish was our man.

 

[naydo1]

Our first need is for a quality ball user off half back / wing, and a quality inside - outside player with genuine pace. The emphasis being on quality and therefore high draft picks. If everyone is saying we have a one paced midfield and our ball use is suspect, then we need to get in a different type of player to mix things up. Kolo sounds like he would have been what we needed in defence. A Suckling or a Birchall type is also what we need from the draft. For me, these are more of a priority than a forward for 2015..

Our first round pick should not be traded but be used in the national draft (unless, of course, we can somehow secure a great deal without giving up too much). How we are getting the ball into the forward line continues to be a major concern. We also have to cover for the loss of Murphy and Morris at some point.

Getting Carlisle would also be handy as he is a genuine defender. But at what cost? I'm not sure we can afford to give up anything like what the Bombers would want.

I think we should go with our current set up in the forward line, plus trade in a mid tier player.....but if they are any good, they won't come cheap. Dickson will be back, Jones will be stronger and Campbell fitter. I guess we could hope we can find for another Barry Hall. I am certainly not in favour of blowing the up place to get a Patton.

Totally agree mate

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

We have several key defenders already... yes he should go back to CHB for essendon. Right now tho we have Roughead, Morris, Williams, Talia, Roberts who are all key defenders... The only player we need in defense is a fast rebounding half back flank with good foot skills. We need a KEY FORWARD. A outside mid would be handy as well but we took Bonts instead of Aish. Bonts will turn out good but we needed a fast outsider player and Aish was our man.

We have Roughead, 31 year old Dale Morris and Michael Talia. Look what happened when Roughy and Moz went down within a week of each other.
Roughead's earmarked for a move forward, don't forget.

We need to address a lack of depth in more areas than the goal square and the outside of stoppages. I'm not disagreeing that we need those players as you've said, but earlier this year our need for more KPD talent was stark.

 

[Dav1d]

How about our pick 4-6 and a player for GWSs pick 2 (as it stands at the moment) and their end of the first round pick?

That way we can definitely get a KPF and not just have to take the best that is left over.....

Then can have an end of the first round pick to use towards drafting/trading...lets say it is Higgins or Talia ..

Higgins or Talia and 4-6 for GWS 2-3 and their pick 20 (?) We lose a f/a get compensated with a pick in the 2nd round attached to our 2nd rounder

Trade one of those picks for a maturer body to fill the void of the player that left, so a KPD if Talia or a midfielder if Higgins
(not sure who yet really)

So we'd be bringing in a KPP, an outside mid/HBF, mature player from another club, outside mid/HBF then Cordy

Absolute must we get super aggressive in the next two drafts or we run the risk of having attendances further dipping until we become another Fitzroy....

 

[Dry Rot]

Why are we discussing Patton? What is there to suggest he wants to leave and/or GWS want to trade him?

 

[naydo1]

We have Roughead, 31 year old Dale Morris and Michael Talia. Look what happened when Roughy and Moz went down within a week of each other.
Roughead's earmarked for a move forward, don't forget.

We need to address a lack of depth in more areas than the goal square and the outside of stoppages. I'm not disagreeing that we need those players as you've said, but earlier this year our need for more KPD talent was stark.

Lol Roughead going forward for 7 minutes last week was a laugh... he needs to stay back. Morris reckons he will play to 36... there was 3 more available and macca had no idea, we could have easily played Williams, Talia and Roberts back?? We will get Zane Cordy in the 3rd or 4th round anyway which will add more depth. We also have young who's a ******* and Darley aswell for depth if you really want to get down to the nit and gritty of our side. Yes i agree that we lack depth across more areas than the goal square and the stoppages but that is our main problem at the moment and we should address these issues first.

 

[Dav1d]

Lol Roughead going forward for 7 minutes last week was a laugh... he needs to stay back. Morris reckons he will play to 36... there was 3 more available and macca had no idea, we could have easily played Williams, Talia and Roberts back?? We will get Zane Cordy in the 3rd or 4th round anyway which will add more depth. We also have young who's a ******* and Darley aswell for depth if you really want to get down to the nit and gritty of our side. Yes i agree that we lack depth across more areas than the goal square and the stoppages but that is our main problem at the moment and we should address these issues first.

Williams has a horror history of injuries, Roberts body isn't ready yet for AFL, Morris could have his age catch up with him before he even gets to 36
Addressing the issue once you get to it is a rookie error, not that I am necessarily suggesting we do a deal with the devil (Essendon) for Carlisle

Zaine Cordy is light years off having the body for a KPD, thought of him more as a tall flank to be honest...same as Young

 

[Dogsman16]

I don't support the calls that Roughead was a spud up forward against freo, however I certainly agree with the calls that he should be kept back. But I think that if we played 4 tall/medium talls (that being 2 out of Jones/Stringer/Redpath plus Crameri and Grant) forwards it would give the option if our forward line structure collapses that we can move Roughhead deep forward and swap him with Redpath/Stringer who could relieve him. That still leaves us with at least Morris and Stringer down back as well as an extra tall defender (Roberts/Talia) against the bigger opposition forward setups.

 

[paulveed]

It's not a case of only thinking that way but remember we are building a Premiership team, not a finals team. There are not many a Premiership teams that I can think of that didn't have a true FF in their team. You can paint the picture any way you like but year after year after year the model remains the same, in the big games you need someone to stand under the ball kicked under pressure and mark it. And then kick the goal. There is no point being cute about this, the game has shown that the grand final is won by mature, strong, big bodies. This is what our recent drafting has focused on and what our target must be going forward is a KPF with these attributes. 195-200cm, well built, can mark and can kick. I am very, very strong on this.

Panna, if you don't think C Grant , K Templeton and even T Modra would outmark Patton eleven days a week, I have to wonder did you ever see them play.
With the number of these gorilla forward types coming back into fashion again of late, you must expect teams will configure their backlines, or defensive setups to line up to counter them.
What I am suggesting is that we could present these backlines with a completely different set of problems.

Now if you go back to my post you will notice I was suggesting [which I do regularly] that we should always have a ruckman resting in the forward pocket, who would drop into the square behind a leading FF.
I am not arguing against, but in favour of a 195-200+ forward, but personally I don't accept that he needs to be a stay-at-home hulking great road block/statue. If we have 3 talls...CHF, resting ruck, and a FF, I think we become too lumbering if that FF isn't really mobile.

I don't mean these particular individuals, but personally I would much prefer a Tippet or Buddy type of FF to a Hawkins, Patton type. Tall, but more mobile.
If we don't play a second ruckman, we go on with the same problem we have now of needing to pull our key position players out of place to rest Will, and pretty clearly that does not work for us.
When Collingwood used a tall forward in lieu of a second ruck some years ago and started this fashion, they could do it because they had 3 genuine talls in their front half.
All I am saying is that while I want a genuine tall FF, I would prefer he be mobile and quick with good hands and a sound kick not just another big lump.

 

[naydo1]

Williams has a horror history of injuries, Roberts body isn't ready yet for AFL, Morris could have his age catch up with him before he even gets to 36
Addressing the issue once you get to it is a rookie error, not that I am necessarily suggesting we do a deal with the devil (Essendon) for Carlisle

Zaine Cordy is light years off having the body for a KPD, thought of him more as a tall flank to be honest...same as Young

I used those players as an example that we have other areas first that need to be addressed... and a key defender can come out of the VFL (Morris) or pick 71 (lake). But to get a quality Power forward and a fast outside midfielder with elite foot skills needs to be drafted usually quite highly... I wouldn't use a draft pick on Carlisle either but that's just my opinion.

 

[Dav1d]

I used those players as an example that we have other areas first that need to be addressed... and a key defender can come out of the VFL (Morris) or pick 71 (lake). But to get a quality Power forward and a fast outside midfielder with elite foot skills needs to be drafted usually quite highly... I wouldn't use a draft pick on Carlisle either but that's just my opinion.

I see, well my post was more to highlight that our depth there isn't exactly pretty...

I think our best depth is our General Forwards; Hunter, Dahlhaus, Honeychurch, Dickson, Crameri, Grant need THAT kind of depth, across the ground

 

[naydo1]

I see, well my post was more to highlight that our depth there isn't exactly pretty...

I think our best depth is our General Forwards; Hunter, Dahlhaus, Honeychurch, Dickson, Crameri, Grant need THAT kind of depth, across the ground

TBH we need depth everywhere that's why we are 14th on the ladder

 

[Dav1d]

TBH we need depth everywhere that's why we are 14th on the ladder

Not for inside midfielders or General Forwards, like I said
Pretty well covered in those areas and some other midfielders have been playing up forward to

Need about 2-3 KPFs and 2-3 more KPDs over the next couple of years, helps if one of the KPDs can also go up forward
that way we have lots of competition for KPP spots, some of these would be rookie spots though as well

Keep cycling the talent through until we find something that works

 

[Flash86]

Issue with these 3 is that there are not the big gorilla types like Patton.
The way we bomb the ball into F50, we need to have someone who can clunk a contested mark.
If we go with more lead up style forwards, we will also need some players with skill who can lower their eyes and deliver the ball well.

That's a fair point. They are all lead up forwards. But it was will be fast athletic forward line.
I know Campbell isn't the answer at forward line, but he is a good developing ruck. However he could play deep full forward. When he develops a bigger tank, he will be a hard match up. He generally plays really well first quarter then tampers off.
I would be happy with a forward line of:
Crameri, Riewoldt, Grant
Dahlhaus, Campbell, Hrovat

 

[Dogs Rule]

Stewart Crameri says hi!

Yes, that's one. Name another and has Crameri really made that much of a difference? We're still in the bottom 4, as we were last year.

Regardless, we need a bit of excitement around the joint. We need another big name like Aker or Barry Hall.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

That's a fair point. They are all lead up forwards. But it was will be fast athletic forward line.
I know Campbell isn't the answer at forward line, but he is a good developing ruck. However he could play deep full forward. When he develops a bigger tank, he will be a hard match up. He generally plays really well first quarter then tampers off.
I would be happy with a forward line of:
Crameri, Riewoldt, Grant
Dahlhaus, Campbell, Hrovat

Campbell could be another Bellchambers. Won't develop until he's 24/25 but can be a ruck man who can take a grab and kick a goal. Not the worst result.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Yes, that's one. Name another and has Crameri really made that much of a difference? We're still in the bottom 4, as we were last year.

Regardless, we need a bit of excitement around the joint. We need another big name like Aker or Barry Hall.

He's our leading goal kicker with twice as many as 2nd so it's hard to argue he hasn't. Wait til he's put in there with Jones and Grant before you judge.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Panna, if you don't think C Grant , K Templeton and even T Modra would outmark Patton eleven days a week, I have to wonder did you ever see them play.
With the number of these gorilla forward types coming back into fashion again of late, you must expect teams will configure their backlines, or defensive setups to line up to counter them.
What I am suggesting is that we could present these backlines with a completely different set of problems.

Now if you go back to my post you will notice I was suggesting [which I do regularly] that we should always have a ruckman resting in the forward pocket, who would drop into the square behind a leading FF.
I am not arguing against, but in favour of a 195-200+ forward, but personally I don't accept that he needs to be a stay-at-home hulking great road block/statue. If we have 3 talls...CHF, resting ruck, and a FF, I think we become too lumbering if that FF isn't really mobile.

I don't mean these particular individuals, but personally I would much prefer a Tippet or Buddy type of FF to a Hawkins, Patton type. Tall, but more mobile.
If we don't play a second ruckman, we go on with the same problem we have now of needing to pull our key position players out of place to rest Will, and pretty clearly that does not work for us.
When Collingwood used a tall forward in lieu of a second ruck some years ago and started this fashion, they could do it because they had 3 genuine talls in their front half.
All I am saying is that while I want a genuine tall FF, I would prefer he be mobile and quick with good hands and a sound kick not just another big lump.

Well this is an hour of typing response. I'll give you my thoughts a big later.

 

[GrandBlue]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-06-04/save-now-spend-later

CLUBS will be encouraged to spend extra dollars on players under a radical new player payments scheme that allows clubs to pay over 100 per cent of the salary cap if they underspend the previous year.

The banking scheme was the most innovative measure introduced as part of the AFL's competitive balance policy announced on Wednesday.

Expect us to chase hard for free agents in 2015.