Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[GetDimmaBack]

So, do we waste the next 12-24 months navel gazing or do we get on with it?

In 2014 we were lower than shark droppings. Hopeless. A mess. A disaster.

Two years later we won a flag.

The impatience is stunning. We find fault in everything and pick it apart and then re-pick it again and go back a third time.

Footy clubs are full of change. It happens all the time, every day, every week, every year. Relationships start, end, egos get inflated and some get carried away and tensions sometimes boil over. It's happens in footy clubs, it happens in life.

I often think it'd be great to return to my 9 year old football following self. As a kid, footy following is pure, it's simple and uncomplicated. You don't overanalyse things and yell your heart out. It's exciting. Best time of my life.

Pity those days don't last.

Great Post, DR.

Just wondering - did anyone know Hawthorn were premiers in 1961...and wooden spooners in 1965?

Things have always changed quickly in football.

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

Great Post, DR.

Just wondering - did anyone know Hawthorn were premiers in 1961...and wooden spooners in 1965?

Things have always changed quickly in football.

And the Pies were 13th last year and they went alright this year.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mattdougie]

Continuing to compare where we are now to where we were in 2014 is laughable

In 2015 the change was monstrous but more important than anything was we bought in a coach that every single player loved and followed. A positive players coach, anyone that saw his performance at the B and F knows that man is Not the same.

Because we made a sudden jump then is absolutely no evidence it will happen again.

The cult like persona of the self appointed mods in here is beyond belief. They spew party line positivity and throw attempted sarcastic barbs at anyone who dares disagree. Somehow you can’t challenge the coaches and staff that are at the core of why we have failed the last two years and it’s only acceptable to blame 2-3 players. Who’s fault will it be in 2019? Maybe why Libba won’t resign he can see he is next

I’d love to think next year will be a break out but so far every football person says we have gone backwards in trade week. Sure they can and may be wrong but if you take biased passion out of it we are in for another long year before I believe we will start to improve. My fear is if we finish we’re i predict we will Bev may walk and then we are at 2014 levels again. I’m truly hoping that does not happen.

We need a really good draft this year and then next. Maybe snag a couple of decent mid tier FAS and then we may have something.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Da

Some good insights there, appreciate the response.

I'm suggesting the club has not offered market rate while other players receive well above market rate (not that we should overpay). I've come to the conclusion that Dahl's form drop was largely motivational. His game against Geelong in July was as good as his 16 and early 17 form where he was talked up as AA. His own comments suggesting he wanted a fresh start send a similar message. The great dynastic teams just haven't had very good players walk out on them (or move them on) in their prime. In Adams, Stringer and Dahl, we have lost three.

Writing off Adams as a loner or different cat, Libba as 'not footy' focussed and Dahl as 'too close to Libba' still seems to be blaming the individual. What about Biggs' amazing drop off? What about the going backwards or plateauing of a host of young players led by Dale, Boyd and Daniel? What about Roughead's drop off? There are too many individual failures for this to be blamed on individuals IMO. There is a larger pattern at play and at some stage the club and management have to be asked why, and steps taken.

Medically speaking bone stress injuries occur due to poor load management ie the management by fitness and conditioning staff. Three in one year is not freakishly unlucky or about unlucky individuals, its a pattern that indicates incompetence bordering on negligence.

A pretty much debt free, financially stable club based in one of the fastest growing areas in Australia. A young team winning a flag with young stars like Bont and Macrae should have had mature A graders wanting a final lick of the premiership ice cream salivating at the chance to come to us. I don't accept the historical mediocrity stuff as a reasonable explanation for them not coming. Sounds like an excuse.

'Build it and they will come' - we have and they haven't. Why?

We should have leveraged off the success of 16, instead we have lost our gun recruiter (we again blamed the individual saying he didn't play well with others or was a credit hog), lost a CEO, lost a footy manager, lost a list manager, lost a number of very good players, failed to attract any A grade talent, maintained an almost laughably bad injury list, and missed finals in two consecutive years.

While I appreciate your insight, the blaming of individuals rather than the effective management of said individuals to maximise performance is an indictment on the management at the club IMO. Sorry but there just seems to be too many cases of 'so and so is no good' rather than looking at why 'so and so is no good' when at some point they were very good.

Dahlhaus has been ok but not great for two seasons and Stringer was very poor for long periods of 16 and 17.

What would you have liked the club to do about them?

You can’t live of past glory forever.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

The catastrophising is insane.

Anyone who suggests players have been medically mismanaged when they have no medical qualifications or idea of the inner sanctum is ridiculous.

Look at our list. Bontempelli, Macrae, McLean, Hunter, Richards, Naughton, Boyd, Schache, Johannisen, Dunkley, Crozier, Cordy, Greene, Dale and English.

Not a bad little base of players.

Who would have thought the mood of some would deteriorate so much AFTER the season finished?

Scapegoating the medical department also runs counter to what many players that have left the club have had to say at the time of their departure. I believe that Adams who many would have it was completely mismanaged by them made a point of thanking those involved in the medical dpt in his farewell insta post.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Continuing to compare where we are now to where we were in 2014 is laughable

In 2015 the change was monstrous but more important than anything was we bought in a coach that every single player loved and followed. A positive players coach, anyone that saw his performance at the B and F knows that man is Not the same.

Because we made a sudden jump then is absolutely no evidence it will happen again.

The cult like persona of the self appointed mods in here is beyond belief. They spew party line positivity and throw attempted sarcastic barbs at anyone who dares disagree. Somehow you can’t challenge the coaches and staff that are at the core of why we have failed the last two years and it’s only acceptable to blame 2-3 players. Who’s fault will it be in 2019? Maybe why Libba won’t resign he can see he is next

I’d love to think next year will be a break out but so far every football person says we have gone backwards in trade week. Sure they can and may be wrong but if you take biased passion out of it we are in for another long year before I believe we will start to improve. My fear is if we finish we’re i predict we will Bev may walk and then we are at 2014 levels again. I’m truly hoping that does not happen.

We need a really good draft this year and then next. Maybe snag a couple of decent mid tier FAS and then we may have something.

Thought Bevo did a pretty good job this year holding things together.

Let’s face it- we were terrible for 12 rounds but we started to slowly turn things around after that. His coaching this year was a lot better than in 17.

 

[Mattdougie]

Da



Dahlhaus has been ok but not great for two seasons and Stringer was very poor for long periods of 16 and 17.

What would you have liked the club to do about them?

You can’t live of past glory forever.

But we carry guys like Honey Jong Campbell and co year after year mate

Jake is a seperate issue why he left.

Personally I’d hope the club would work with a guy like Dahl and try to get him back to what he was and we put him on the trade table LAST year so after one year of poor form we were prepared to let let him go? Sorry mate in my book that isn’t good enough

 

[Mattdougie]

Thought Bevo did a pretty good job this year holding things together.

Let’s face it- we were terrible for 12 rounds but we started to slowly turn things around after that. His coaching this year was a lot better than in 17.

Shouldn’t we expect more from a premiership coach? At times the last two years we have been uncompetitive and regardless excuses some here think that isn’t good enough and at SOME POINT the coaching needs to be accountable and not just singled out players.

With the moral stand our club had taken hypothetically if Dusty Martin wanted to come to our club we couldn’t take him

I’m very concerned our list is just very average and has little direction and now we have an inexperienced list crew that have so far shown nothing

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Shouldn’t we expect more from a premiership coach? At times the last two years we have been uncompetitive and regardless excuses some here think that isn’t good enough and at SOME POINT the coaching needs to be accountable and not just singled out players.

I think the coach has copped quite a bit of criticism over the past two years though MD, don't you? Most here still believe in him, but that's not to say he hasn't been roundly criticised at selection, in player moves (e.g. Wood forward) and tactically. He has been challenged on here quite regularly since the premiership.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Shouldn’t we expect more from a premiership coach? At times the last two years we have been uncompetitive and regardless excuses some here think that isn’t good enough and at SOME POINT the coaching needs to be accountable and not just singled out players.

With the moral stand our club had taken hypothetically if Dusty Martin wanted to come to our club we couldn’t take him

I’m very concerned our list is just very average and has little direction and now we have an inexperienced list crew that have so far shown nothing

As you point out our list unskilled, very young and unbalanced. What you like Bevo to do about that?

Disagree about us having no direction. With guys like English, Richards, Naughton, Cordy , Green and Lynch youcan see plenty of positive direction. Coaching is the least of our problems.

 

[Hobdog]

As you point out our list unskilled, very young and unbalanced. What you like Bevo to do about that?

Disagree about us having no direction. With guys like English, Richards, Naughton, Cordy , Green and Lynch youcan see plenty of positive direction. Coaching is the least of our problems.

I wouldn’t worry about MD, many on here will remember the way he’s carried himself, when we start to challenge again and he tries to jump on the band wagon.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Roscoe_au]

Shouldn’t we expect more from a premiership coach? At times the last two years we have been uncompetitive and regardless excuses some here think that isn’t good enough and at SOME POINT the coaching needs to be accountable and not just singled out players.

With the moral stand our club had taken hypothetically if Dusty Martin wanted to come to our club we couldn’t take him

I’m very concerned our list is just very average and has little direction and now we have an inexperienced list crew that have so far shown nothing

I think we're slowly turning the corner. We have some good kids that have real footy smarts and future 200 gamers for the club. Really like Naughton, Lynch, Richards and the 2 Baileys.

Totally agree on HoneyChurch and Campbell. List cloggers. Been there for years and need to be chopped. I dont understand the attraction with Jong.

 

[Mattdougie]

I wouldn’t worry about MD, many on here will remember the way he’s carried himself, when we start to challenge again and he tries to jump on the band wagon.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Lol yet you continually post about me

I understand those that can’t understand the truth while not pleasant is necessary to improve.

I’ve never been off the wagon even when it had square wheels, but challenge my support because that’s all you have

Have a great day

 

[Mattdougie]

I think the coach has copped quite a bit of criticism over the past two years though MD, don't you? Most here still believe in him, but that's not to say he hasn't been roundly criticised at selection, in player moves (e.g. Wood forward) and tactically. He has been challenged on here quite regularly since the premiership.

No mate I’m sorry I don’t think the people leading our club have copped anywhere near what they deserve.

They have lead us from a flag to uncompetitive in less than two years and while some do say things against them(not only Bev let’s make that clear) we have been a shambles since oct 16, not far off what we were under BMac at times.

And let’s get this right this isn’t all Bev it’s eveyone at the club.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Lol yet you continually post about me

I understand those that can’t understand the truth while not pleasant is necessary to improve.

I’ve never been off the wagon even when it had square wheels guy challenge my support because that’s all you have

Have a great day

Getting back to footy issues- I get very confused about whether you support Bevo or not.

You hint that he is unstable or not up to it, then you worry that he is going to shoot through.

If he was that bad- shouldn’t Gordon and Grant just sack him tomorrow?

 

[Mattdougie]

Getting back to footy issues- I get very confused about whether you support Bevo or not.

You hint that he is unstable or not up to it, then you worry that he is going to shoot through.

If he was that bad- shouldn’t Gordon and Grant just sack him tomorrow?

Unstable? When have I ever hinted that? Probably one of the most grounded men I’ve ever met.

He won us a flag I absolutely hope he can get us back to finals but I’m not sure if I’m honest. As I said his player relationship was his strongest asset imo and I don’t believe that exists anymore at the level it was. Can he get it back or can he bring forward new assets? No one knows I think 2019 will tell us all.

At present imo 2016 was the odd year out and I am not sure he can get us back there but I’m 100% behind him(some of the other coaches not so much)

My point on him leaving is I think he is a man that will walk if he believes he isn’t taking the club forward. It has zero to do with his mental state although he does look a different man to the 2016 model. In no way have I ever questioned his mental stability.

 

[Mattdougie]

I think we're slowly turning the corner. We have some good kids that have real footy smarts and future 200 gamers for the club. Really like Naughton, Lynch, Richards and the 2 Baileys.

Totally agree on HoneyChurch and Campbell. List cloggers. Been there for years and need to be chopped. I dont understand the attraction with Jong.

True but the one question I still want answered is WHY we had to turn any corner?

The Young premiership team we had should be miles above where we are and to this day no one has even tried to tell us why it was fractured and split apart(and no I won’t accept Jake was the reason).

 

[TedDougChris]

I think we're slowly turning the corner. We have some good kids that have real footy smarts and future 200 gamers for the club. Really like Naughton, Lynch, Richards and the 2 Baileys.

Totally agree on HoneyChurch and Campbell. List cloggers. Been there for years and need to be chopped. I dont understand the attraction with Jong.

Agree, if you look at recent recruits, English, Richards, Naughton, Gowers, Lloyd - all address a need: Speed/mobility/skills/intercept marking/goal scoring.

The latter two are shorter term, with questions on them - but trying to plug gaps.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Unstable? When have I ever hinted that? Probably one of the most grounded men I’ve ever met.

He won us a flag I absolutely hope he can get us back to finals but I’m not sure if I’m honest. As I said his player relationship was his strongest asset imo and I don’t believe that exists anymore at the level it was. Can he get it back or can he bring forward new assets? No one knows I think 2019 will tell us all.

At present imo 2016 was the odd year out and I am not sure he can get us back there but I’m 100% behind him(some of the other coaches not so much)

My point on him leaving is I think he is a man that will walk if he believes he isn’t taking the club forward. It has zero to do with his mental state although he does look a different man to the 2016 model. In no way have I ever questioned his mental stability.

Fair enough- I misinterpreted your not the man he was comment. Everybody changes with time so I guess he is no exception.

My take on last year was that he was that with a lesser coach we would have finished like Carlton or St Kilda did ie a rabble.

Whilst I have serious doubts about Gordon’s managements skills ( his treatment of Susan Alberti- a case in point), I have absolutely no worries about Bevo.

 

[Roscoe_au]

Agree, if you look at recent recruits, English, Richards, Naughton, Gowers, Lloyd - all address a need: Speed/mobility/skills/intercept marking/goal scoring.

The latter two are shorter term, with questions on them - but trying to plug gaps.

I like Bailey Dale. Has speed and poise. I thought B Williams was going to be a Hodge clone, but I'm no longer convinced.

 

[TedDougChris]

I like Bailey Dale. Has speed and poise. I thought B Williams was going to be a Hodge clone, but I'm no longer convinced.

Dale was good a few years back, Williams was good last year until injury.

 

[Roscoe_au]

True but the one question I still want answered is WHY we had to turn any corner?

The Young premiership team we had should be miles above where we are and to this day no one has even tried to tell us why it was fractured and split apart(and no I won’t accept Jake was the reason).

I don't think it is a corner. I think we lost a little of our soul when Bob left and leadership when Wood was struck down with injury weeks at a time. Add to that the loss of our prime hardball getter in Libba (also part of that 'never say die' fabric), the Bont playing injured for a large part of the year and keeping blokes on the list that either wanted out or injured ALL of the time (Adams and Red) and it all starts to take a toll.

We had a crap year with injury. Look at GWS and the performances they put in when their A-Graders were injured. They looked as though they were going to miss the 8 and played some woeful footy.

 

[TiAn_]

Boring.

 

[Roscoe_au]

Boring.

No footy and a crap Test side is 'boring'

 

[Roscoe_au]

Imagine the melt downs in the thread if the Marsh brothers played for the Dogs... LMAO