Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[hutchy31]

Caleb’s an interesting one, and I’d have to agree with previous posters that I think his value to the team is reduced.

When he was AA, best and fairest and the best ball user (arguably the only decent one) out of our backline a couple of years back he was integral. Now Dale is there and Ed has cemented a spot - both great ball users even if they turn it over every now and again - Caleb’s role is reduced and his value as well. His weaknesses are magnified and can be easily exploited by the opposition.

I’m not sure where he plays next year and beyond, but a backline with two KPDs, a third tall/intercept player (Darcy?), a lockdown medium defender and two attacking half backs would be the ideal balance imo. Daniel only gets one of those two attacking roles if Richards is played in the intercept or lockdown role, and I’m not sure that’s the best approach going forward.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Unfair on Richards. A backline with 4-5 Richards and 1-2 proper talls would be amazing.

It's not unfair on Richards because I said nothing at all critical of him.

He has developed into a very good defender who is unquestionably better on defence than both of Dale and Daniel. He is not, however, a natural in the defensive phases of the game and his mindset is more offensive than defensive. He certainly isn't a shutdown defender and I would not be counting on him to lock down a Charlie Cameron type in a key final without significant support.

The issue is not with Richards who is a dynamite offensive player and neutral (or slightly better) presence defensively. The issue is that all three are better attackers than they are defenders, and that mix is a bit out. Richards' defence has developed well, but is not good enough to independently account for the shortcomings of the other two. 4 Richards and some key defenders would be a nice backline, I agree, but one Richards and two defensive negatives is not.

My preference is to pair Dale and Richards together because I rate Richards so highly, so I'm not sure why my post is seen as harsh on him.

 

[doggiesin08]

It's not unfair on Richards because I said nothing at all critical of him.

He has developed into a very good defender who is unquestionably better on defence than both of Dale and Daniel. He is not, however, a natural in the defensive phases of the game and his mindset is more offensive than defensive. He certainly isn't a shutdown defender and I would not be counting on him to lock down a Charlie Cameron type in a key final without significant support.

The issue is not with Richards who is a dynamite offensive player and neutral (or slightly better) presence defensively. The issue is that all three are better attackers than they are defenders, and that mix is a bit out. Richards' defence has developed well, but is not good enough to independently account for the shortcomings of the other two. 4 Richards and some key defenders would be a nice backline, I agree, but one Richards and two defensive negatives is not.

My preference is to pair Dale and Richards together because I rate Richards so highly, so I'm not sure why my post is seen as harsh on him.

We appear to completely disagree on Richards defensive capabilities. I think he is a natural in the defensive phases, he can shut players down and his defensive presence is a LONG way ahead of just slightly better than neutral.

I guess I view grouping him with Dale and Daniel as “unfair”. In my opinion, Richards is additive to our ability to carry both Dale and Daniel not part of the problem.

 

[dergert]

Oh how quickly Carltank supporters have turned on Lewy Young

 

[Chops]

Oh how quickly Carltank supporters have turned on Lewy Young

Was told he pantsed Ben Brown.

Ben Brown has played about 5 good games in the last 5 years and they have been mainly against us.

 

[doggies ftw]

We appear to completely disagree on Richards defensive capabilities. I think he is a natural in the defensive phases, he can shut players down and his defensive presence is a LONG way ahead of just slightly better than neutral.

I guess I view grouping him with Dale and Daniel as “unfair”. In my opinion, Richards is additive to our ability to carry both Dale and Daniel not part of the problem.

Agree on Richards, he is brilliant defensively and I’d be more comfortable with him than any other player on our list at locking down a Charlie (even Doc) he could absolutely be a lockdown defender, of course we would never use him that was though as it would be a waste of his offensive attributes.

I think the ideal defensive ‘7’ would be -

3 talls

Richards the ‘hybrid’ medium, who can intercept, play defensive when needed on a speedy forward or a medium tall and also provide run off half back

Dale the main ball user & a small “defense first” defender like Doc

For the last spot I actually think it’d be fine to carry another offensively minded player there - but not Daniel, he’s just too much of a liability these days especially with the way oppo moves the ball into our back half. Maybe if we change the way we defend the ground to being semi competent he can find his feet back there again.

Ideally the 7th spot would be another Richards type, or Williams if he finds form again (although I like him up the ground) someone who can do a bit of everything but has great skills & offers intercept marking &/or a bit of run.

Maybe Cleary? Good skills, good defensive mindset and good size & athletic profile

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Oh how quickly Carltank supporters have turned on Lewy Young

Wow! Really? He was excellent last night. Probably in their best three with Cripps and Docherty. They must have seen a different game to me.

Edit: Had 25 one percenters, 12 intercepts and 3 contested marks while Ben Brown had 8 touches and 1 goal

 

[doggies ftw]

Wow! Really? He was excellent last night. Probably in their best three with Cripps and Docherty. They must have seen a different game to me.

Edit: Had 25 one percenters, 12 intercepts and 3 contested marks while Ben Brown had 8 touches and 1 goal

Ah what a shame, what an absolute **** up to push him out

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Ah what a shame, what an absolute * up to push him out

Honestly our biggest list **** up of the last few years, and we've had plenty.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Ah what a shame, what an absolute * up to push him out

It was more important to play Cordy week in, week out for the last three seasons rather than let him develop

 

[The Inbetweener]

Wow! Really? He was excellent last night. Probably in their best three with Cripps and Docherty. They must have seen a different game to me.

Edit: Had 25 one percenters, 12 intercepts and 3 contested marks while Ben Brown had 8 touches and 1 goal

Young has had a pretty lean month but last night was amongst the best games he would have played at AFL level.

The fact we went with Cordy over him is horrendous

 

[The Inbetweener]

Honestly our biggest list * up of the last few years, and we've had plenty.

Imagine this thread if Richards walked and started playing like this elsewhere

 

[immortalmike]

It's not a privilege. It is something these kids have worked hard for. Sure they enjoy the game at the start but it soon become just a job for most of them.
If a player gets offered 5hitloads elsewhere, he'd be mad not to take it

Nobody said they don't work hard. But what I and many others are saying is that kicking a footy for a living is only worth the value ascribed by the people who support you.

You are given the ability to earn copious sums of money doing something many others do for recreation. This is a privilege. And only allowed to happen because of members and supporters.

 

[Del165892]

You are given the ability to earn copious sums of money doing something many others do for recreation.

So being a prostitute or pr0n star is also a privilege according to your logic

 

[immortalmike]

So being a prostitute or pr0n star is also a privilege according to your logic

Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying.
Piss off Scrag

 

[Norm De Guerre]

It's not unfair on Richards because I said nothing at all critical of him.

He has developed into a very good defender who is unquestionably better on defence than both of Dale and Daniel. He is not, however, a natural in the defensive phases of the game and his mindset is more offensive than defensive. He certainly isn't a shutdown defender and I would not be counting on him to lock down a Charlie Cameron type in a key final without significant support.

The issue is not with Richards who is a dynamite offensive player and neutral (or slightly better) presence defensively. The issue is that all three are better attackers than they are defenders, and that mix is a bit out. Richards' defence has developed well, but is not good enough to independently account for the shortcomings of the other two. 4 Richards and some key defenders would be a nice backline, I agree, but one Richards and two defensive negatives is not.

My preference is to pair Dale and Richards together because I rate Richards so highly, so I'm not sure why my post is seen as harsh on him.

I suspect you have nailed one of our biggest issues in recent times and why it is that the club wanted to trial Ed everywhere other than his natural position in his first few seasons.

We leak worse than Matthew Guys colleagues backgrounding the media. We do this at both ends of the ground because our flankers, pockets and probably coach are too offensively minded. This tends to leave our mids exposed and in nomansland trying to fill gaps as quicker teams play frogger around us as they exit our forward and defensive halves with relative ease.

Duryea is outstanding in this aspect of the game but is almost a lone voice across our entire team when it comes to this critical part of the game.

 

[Dogs Rule]

So being a prostitute or pr0n star is also a privilege according to your logic

We all have dreams...

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Young has had a pretty lean month but last night was amongst the best games he would have played at AFL level.

The fact we went with Cordy over him is horrendous

Have one hilarious 'falcon" late in the game and nobody forgets...

However, as glaring as that error was. It was him being in nowheres land when the high ball came in and landed in Melkshams hands for a goal prior to that where their ants would be coming from. The reality is that Lewis like his teammates completely lacked composure when the game was on the line to be won with 5 minutes to go.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

I've said this before, but the play was to trade CD with high value into a player in a position of need.

I like all three players individually, but I have significant doubts that Dale, Daniel, and Richards can ever play together in a back six that doesn't leak like a sieve.

Put them three hypothetically with May and Lever and we would never get beat seriously, that's why it's a need to get Jones in for The lever type and Barrass for the May type and Broad to do the lock down that Durea does. We get these two and do what Brenton Sanderson said and redesign our defensive ways, look out for a quick climb to top two/four next year.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Put them three hypothetically with May and Lever and we would never get beat seriously, that's why it's a need to get Jones in for The lever type and Barrass for the May type and Broad to do the lock down that Durea does. We get these two and do what Brenton Sanderson said and redesign our defensive ways, look out for a quick climb to top two/four next year.

Or we could actually try to develop decent. On 1 defenders for once instead of playing midfielders as attacking defenders.

Seriously it’s a joke that we have not paid any attention to this crucial role which is required to win premierships.

We recruited Lewis Young for this role, yet played guys too slow or too small instead.

Maybe VDM, Cleary, Buku or Scott could be tried, but no obvious plan seems to be in place.

 

[grassman75]

Oh how quickly Carltank supporters have turned on Lewy Young

Was it the 3rd man up in a 3 on one contest where he completely ****ed up his team mats attempt to mark and hit the ball away with his head? I actually think that play may have cost Carlton the game

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Caleb’s an interesting one, and I’d have to agree with previous posters that I think his value to the team is reduced.

When he was AA, best and fairest and the best ball user (arguably the only decent one) out of our backline a couple of years back he was integral. Now Dale is there and Ed has cemented a spot - both great ball users even if they turn it over every now and again - Caleb’s role is reduced and his value as well. His weaknesses are magnified and can be easily exploited by the opposition.

I’m not sure where he plays next year and beyond, but a backline with two KPDs, a third tall/intercept player (Darcy?), a lockdown medium defender and two attacking half backs would be the ideal balance imo. Daniel only gets one of those two attacking roles if Richards is played in the intercept or lockdown role, and I’m not sure that’s the best approach going forward.

Caleb and Williams were drafted as mids- if Dunkley goes we need to play them there and get some actual defenders.

 

[maddog37]

Still don’t know why CD can’t play as a deep forward. We need a crumber and he reads the drop of the ball better than most. Would also draw a stack of free kicks for too high.

 

[immortalmike]

Still don’t know why CD can’t play as a deep forward. We need a crumber and he reads the drop of the ball better than most. Would also draw a stack of free kicks for too high.

He's slower than Stef Martin, has no foward nous, and would offer no pressure.

 

[Chalky White]

He's slower than Stef Martin, has no foward nous, and would offer no pressure.

Turn it up.
How do you know what his forward nous is like? He's not slow but he isn't lightning like the indigenous forwards are.