Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[TiAn_]

CD almost needs to be paired with a buddy that’s good defensively (and can accompany him on roller coasters) to offset his limitations. Not sure we have enough defensively minded players in the side atm and one or two lacking in this area might need to be tough omissions.

 

[Bald]

Turn it up.
How do you know what his forward nous is like? He's not slow but he isn't lightning like the indigenous forwards are.

Theres no way to know. Some people just guess mate.

 

[maddog37]

He's slower than Stef Martin, has no foward nous, and would offer no pressure.

I remember his games for SA in the under 18 champs. He was a consistent goal kicker with very good scoring instincts.

 

[immortalmike]

Turn it up.
How do you know what his forward nous is like? He's not slow but he isn't lightning like the indigenous forwards are.

What an odd thing to say.
How would you know anything about a player. I've watched him play.
And for that particular position he is far too slow.

 

[immortalmike]

I remember his games for SA in the under 18 champs. He was a consistent goal kicker with very good scoring instincts.

He is a good decision maker, has great agility and is super fit. He also is excellent in congestion and below his knees.

Can see him as a high half forward but not deep.

 

[Del165892]

I think Caleb would be okay as a crumber but he would let the ball back out too easily. We need guys like Weightman and West who can apply pressure. Caleb doesn't apply pressure because everyone knows his tackles are ineffective. I don't enjoy pointing that out because it's a bit of an ugly truth and it's not something within his control for the most part. It's just the reality of his size.

 

[doggies ftw]

He is a good decision maker, has great agility and is super fit. He also is excellent in congestion and below his knees.

Can see him as a high half forward but not deep.

High half forward is absolutely the role for him, can push up into the contest - use his tank to get up and down the ground and deliver the ball inside 50. Id like to see the change made for an extended period of time

 

[TommyD13]

Daniel much more suited at half forward, pushing up into the contest and delivering inside forward 50.

The backline we just need to start piecing together bit by bit. 3 keys, and 4 medium/smaller types with good foot skills and defensive nous is the structure for me. If we were to land Jones that helps out in the key department. Smaller types, Duryea and Richards fit the bill perfectly. We need two more. Personally, I feel Dale is not the best defensively, and would maybe be better on a wing somewhere. However, he has been improving in this regard so maybe another pre-season down back will pull him up to scratch. Apart from that there's not much else there on the list who are currently up to it. Would be good to see Cleary or Khamis given more of a go, but ideally we recruit 1 or 2 more for some added depth.

 

[cleveland]

Leon said on radio that he isnt coming to dogs. He is staying in sydney due to his kids still at school up there.

Sorry folks for getting it wrong. Obviously was some truth us being linked to him.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

What an odd thing to say.
How would you know anything about a player. I've watched him play.
And for that particular position he is far too slow.

Pretty sure he played in 2016 there.

But agree- too slow.

Plays as a mid/ winger or not at all.

 

[Northernsoul74]

Leon said on radio that he isnt coming to dogs. He is staying in sydney due to his kids still at school up there.

Sorry folks for getting it wrong. Obviously was some truth us being linked to him.

Keep sharing.

 

[hatescaptcha]

Lately I’ve been thinking would Arthur Jones to the backline be totally insane? Perhaps not.
It could help him get more involved in the game and give us that electric side step and speed from the backend (JJ 2016 style).
But he’s also a really good mark for his size and looks like the type of person who would relish being given a task on an opposition small forward so could have potential to do a hybrid lockdown / rebound role.

Get him to spend his pre-season alongside Duryea to learn how to defend and see what his got.

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[doggiesin08]

Lately I’ve been thinking would Arthur Jones to the backline be totally insane? Perhaps not.
It could help him get more involved in the game and give us that electric side step and speed from the backend (JJ 2016 style).
He’s also a really good mark for his size and looks like the type of person who would relish being given a task on an opposition small forward.

Get him to spend his pre-season alongside Duryea to learn how to defend and see what his got.

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Nowhere near clean enough at ground level, fumbling more than anyone else even at VFL level. I hope he has a huge preseason and I appreciate I’m going super early but I just don’t see it with him.

 

[iambrilliant]

Nowhere near clean enough at ground level, fumbling more than anyone else even at VFL level. I hope he has a huge preseason and I appreciate I’m going super early but I just don’t see it with him.

He will be a slow burn , long term prospect but He’s got X factor and speed something we are desperate for on a wing

 

[doggiesin08]

He will be a slow burn , long term prospect but He’s got X factor and speed something we are desperate for on a wing

I think his X-factor is a bit of a myth because he attacks the ball at full speed. 80% of the time he fumbles or overruns it (which explains his low possession count) and 20% of the time it looks amazing and we call it X-factor.

The ability to pick the ball up cleanly off the deck (not because of pressure or body contact) isn’t usually something that improves much. Hopefully it’s just lack of confidence given his size and as he develops his core strength he might feel comfortable slowing down and improving his cleanliness (he could attack the ball with 10-20% less speed and still get there first).

I’m much more excited about Bedendo on a wing (who I think does have X-factor) if he can clean up his kicking.

 

[Chops]

I think his X-factor is a bit of a myth because he attacks the ball at full speed. 80% of the time he fumbles or overruns it (which explains his low possession count) and 20% of the time it looks amazing and we call it X-factor.

The ability to pick the ball up cleanly off the deck (not because of pressure or body contact) isn’t usually something that improves much. Hopefully it’s just lack of confidence given his size and as he develops his core strength he might feel comfortable slowing down and improving his cleanliness (he could attack the ball with 10-20% less speed and still get there first).

I’m much more excited about Bedendo on a wing (who I think does have X-factor) if he can clean up his kicking.

So he fumbles or overruns it. He is 19 yo, drafted 43, 65kg, in a very foreign environment. He is far from the finished product. The signs are promising.
Bedendo was further away at the same stage

 

[adogsfan5]

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

We appear to completely disagree on Richards defensive capabilities. I think he is a natural in the defensive phases, he can shut players down and his defensive presence is a LONG way ahead of just slightly better than neutral.

I guess I view grouping him with Dale and Daniel as “unfair”. In my opinion, Richards is additive to our ability to carry both Dale and Daniel not part of the problem.

Richards was on record at the beginning of the season as saying that the defensive side of the game is what has needed the most improvement for him, and the reason he wasn't being played at half back. See below quote:

"I just wanted to be solid defensively. I spoke to the coaches about it early in the year and they said they wanted me to be better in that aspect of my game and then everything will flow on from that," Richards told AFL.com.au.

Dashing Dog finding his feet after frustrating 2021

Ed Richards is hitting top form after a nightmare 2021

www.afl.com.au

It certainly hasn't come naturally to him. He has improved markedly and is a solid defender now, but I would disagree that he's anything more than above average. Duryea is a much better defender, but Richards has much more balance to his game.

Richards has developed into a net positive defender who is a valuable third-man up. He is a very reliable peel-off defender who, for his size, is an exceptional aerial presence - he rates as elite for his position on the AFL site for intercept marks, above average for spoils, and above average for one-percenters.

However, he is not as successful as a one-on-one defender. He loses 33.3% of his defensive one-on-ones which is much better than Daniel, but identical to Hannan and markedly poorer than Crozier (25%), Duryea (25%), and Dale (21.1%). Similarly, his play at ground level as a defender is not quite at the level of his peers. He averages less tackles than Daniel (rated as below average for his position on the AFL site). He averages significantly fewer pressure acts than Daniel (rated average) both overall and in the defensive 50. Similarly, in terms of hybrid offensive/defensive stats, he is average for his position for both ground-ball gets and rebound 50s.

The stats back up what I find when watching: he has developed into an exceptional aerial help defender, but is still not particularly comfortable locking down or getting caught defending his man directly.

He's certainly not a liability like Dale and Daniel can be on that end of the ground, and his intercept game is far and away better than theirs, but I maintain that he is at best a marginal net positive when forced to defend a man.

 

[doggies ftw]

Richards was on record at the beginning of the season as saying that the defensive side of the game is what has needed the most improvement for him, and the reason he wasn't being played at half back. See below quote:

Dashing Dog finding his feet after frustrating 2021

Ed Richards is hitting top form after a nightmare 2021

www.afl.com.au

It certainly hasn't come naturally to him. He has improved markedly and is a solid defender now, but I would disagree that he's anything more than above average. Duryea is a much better defender, but Richards has much more balance to his game.

Richards has developed into a net positive defender who is a valuable third-man up. He is a very reliable peel-off defender who, for his size, is an exceptional aerial presence - he rates as elite for his position on the AFL site for intercept marks, above average for spoils, and above average for one-percenters.

However, he is not as successful as a one-on-one defender. He loses 33.3% of his defensive one-on-ones which is much better than Daniel, but identical to Hannan and markedly poorer than Crozier (25%), Duryea (25%), and Dale (21.1%). Similarly, his play at ground level as a defender is not quite at the level of his peers. He averages less tackles than Daniel (rated as below average for his position on the AFL site). He averages significantly fewer pressure acts than Daniel (rated average) both overall and in the defensive 50. Similarly, in terms of hybrid offensive/defensive stats, he is average for his position for both ground-ball gets and rebound 50s.

The stats back up what I find when watching: he has developed into an exceptional aerial help defender, but is still not particularly comfortable locking down or getting caught defending his man directly.

He's certainly not a liability like Dale and Daniel can be on that end of the ground, and his intercept game is far and away better than theirs, but I maintain that he is at best a marginal net positive when forced to defend a man.

One on one % stats in our backline are a waste of time, they don’t tell you anything considering the way our defence sets up - any ‘one on one’ our defenders get is actually being caught out of position and trying to make up ground to get back. Put Ed in a real one on one contest and he shits all over Daniel, Dale, Croz & Hannan - so I wouldn’t even give those stats time of day to be honest.

Plus he’s playing an offensive role so of course his stats are going to lean that way, if we had him focusing on a defensive role locking down a player then his stats would tend to lean more that way (ie pressure acts etc, which in itself is a useless stat for defenders)

Can pull whatever stats you want out but I’m still way more confident in Ed in a defensive contest than literally any other defender on our list bar Doc. By a mile. Of course we’re going to try to utilise his aerial & offensive ability more though as that’s where he shines

 

[TiAn_]

With Wood gone and Williams having the half back yips, we desperately need a proper medium defender like Wilkie or Maynard.

Maybe Cleary can be that player eventually, but I think he's still a couple of years off having the physical attributes.

 

[dergert]

Wonder if we had a sniff

 

[doggiesin08]

Richards was on record at the beginning of the season as saying that the defensive side of the game is what has needed the most improvement for him, and the reason he wasn't being played at half back. See below quote:

Dashing Dog finding his feet after frustrating 2021

Ed Richards is hitting top form after a nightmare 2021

www.afl.com.au

It certainly hasn't come naturally to him. He has improved markedly and is a solid defender now, but I would disagree that he's anything more than above average. Duryea is a much better defender, but Richards has much more balance to his game.

Richards has developed into a net positive defender who is a valuable third-man up. He is a very reliable peel-off defender who, for his size, is an exceptional aerial presence - he rates as elite for his position on the AFL site for intercept marks, above average for spoils, and above average for one-percenters.

However, he is not as successful as a one-on-one defender. He loses 33.3% of his defensive one-on-ones which is much better than Daniel, but identical to Hannan and markedly poorer than Crozier (25%), Duryea (25%), and Dale (21.1%). Similarly, his play at ground level as a defender is not quite at the level of his peers. He averages less tackles than Daniel (rated as below average for his position on the AFL site). He averages significantly fewer pressure acts than Daniel (rated average) both overall and in the defensive 50. Similarly, in terms of hybrid offensive/defensive stats, he is average for his position for both ground-ball gets and rebound 50s.

The stats back up what I find when watching: he has developed into an exceptional aerial help defender, but is still not particularly comfortable locking down or getting caught defending his man directly.

He's certainly not a liability like Dale and Daniel can be on that end of the ground, and his intercept game is far and away better than theirs, but I maintain that he is at best a marginal net positive when forced to defend a man.

Ok we're probably closer in our views than first thought from your original post. He's above average on a bunch of measures, average and below average on others. Overall you think he's a marginal net positive defending a man (at best) and I think he's a clear net positive. I also think he's improved a lot as the year has gone on so his full year averages probably understate the level he's at now.

I guess my main issue was the suggestion that Richards contributes to a backline that "leaks like a sieve" where in my view:

• Richards reduces the degree to which the backline leaks like a sieve, and also offers a lot offensively
• Dale increases the degree to which the backline leaks like a sieve, however his offensive contribution makes up for it
• Daniel increases the degree to which the backline leaks like a sieve, and I'm not convinced his offensive contribution makes up for it

I'm also keen on moving Daniel out of the backline, just for me the defensive limitations on Richards part has nothing to do with it.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Its amazing how a single word can shift the tone of a tweet.

Instead of writing "hasn't had a shot at Adelelaide" with its implication of mismanagement and upsell.

One could just as easily of written "hasn't fired a shot with Adelaide" with the implication that he is a bust worth almost nothing.

Whatever, the truth this has the stink of a player manager fishing for a new contract all over it.

Its good to be tall in this game.

 

[Dog 36]

Wonder if we had a sniff

If we don't we should especially if cheap.

A risk worth taking.

 

[doggiesin08]

So he fumbles or overruns it. He is 19 yo, drafted 43, 65kg, in a very foreign environment. He is far from the finished product. The signs are promising.
Bedendo was further away at the same stage

Frequently overrunning the ball is pretty fundamental and no a "so what" issue in assessing young players. Hopefully it is all just to do with lack of confidence in his size and improves as he develops better core strength.

What signs from his VFL form do you see as promising other than his ability to run fast? I don't agree that Bedendo was further away at the same stage. He also came in very underdeveloped but his first year at VFL level was definitely statistically superior to Jones (mostly driven by kick-handball ratio and ability to hit the scoreboard).