Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Except O'Brien was always seen as a very flaky player at Hawthorn.
It's not exactly like picking up a Tom Barrass, Darcy Moore, Jake Lever or Tom Stewart.
Sure we picked him up for peanuts but he hasn't really done anything to show me that he is a long-term option in defence. Apart from Keath we are very average in KPDs. we did recruit Naughton a couple of years ago to overcome this deficiency. But now we see him as our main KPF.
We need to go to the draft and trade table with a plan to get KPD's and a back up ruck.
I would look at a possible trade with West Coast for Barrass or Mcgovern, West Coast are in a rebuild and may need to salary dump. Of course I am talking a perfect scenario but we need to really be on the front foot in regard to this. It's obvious to most (not all) that our defence is very poor.
How do we improve? Well, maybe we have to give up a good midfielder which we have heaps of to try and get a deal done.
I always hear how good and deep our midfield is, well i would sacrifice one for the greater good.
If we don't improve the back half we will be treading water for quite a long time.

Aliir was pretty ordinary at Sydney. Roughead was delistable in his last season with us. Sam Collins was a player that Freo thought wasn't up to it. There are lots of examples of good defenders that weren't valued.

O'Brien is exactly the type of player I want us to continue to invest in. Getting them for cheap lets us keep the rest of the list balanced and you can churn through them quickly until we find one that's a hidden gem. Melbourne made it work by investing a lot of money in May and Lever but it took several years and it arguably cost them a chance to look at any good forwards until Ben Brown lost all value after one bad season.

 

[Jeff 1975]

Unfortunately, we will need a back-up plan for next year if English continues to have concussion problems

 

[TedDougChris]

Unfortunately, we will need a back-up plan for next year if English continues to have concussion problems

It's a big worry, he could be such an unique player - but we've lost him for a couple of knocks already (ok - one was massive....)

 

[ErnieSigley]

Aliir was pretty ordinary at Sydney. Roughead was delistable in his last season with us. Sam Collins was a player that Freo thought wasn't up to it. There are lots of examples of good defenders that weren't valued.

O'Brien is exactly the type of player I want us to continue to invest in. Getting them for cheap lets us keep the rest of the list balanced and you can churn through them quickly until we find one that's a hidden gem. Melbourne made it work by investing a lot of money in May and Lever but it took several years and it arguably cost them a chance to look at any good forwards until Ben Brown lost all value after one bad season.

OBrien isn't a KP, Allir, Roughead and Collins all had played as KPD and by half way through the season had shown something at their new club.
There are cheap tall defenders out there but O'Brien isn't one of them

 

[glenashley]

Is it time for English to start wearing a scone protector?

Can't be good long term.

I understand the new tech ones are quite effective.

 

[Mr. Walker]

Is it time for English to start wearing a scone protector?

Can't be good long term.

I understand the new tech ones are quite effective.

In all seriousness the AFL may one day require all players to wear one ( not the same one obviously) if class actions take off and they need to be shown to do all that they can to minimise the risk.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

In all seriousness the AFL may one day require all players to wear one ( not the same one obviously) if class actions take off and they need to be shown to do all that they can to minimise the risk.

Any concussion experts out there?

Are there less concussions now that the sling tackles are banned? Has the trend been lower in the last decade the the previous? Guessing they didn’t track this that closely in the 90s

How many concussions of medium severity does it take to cause longer term damage?

 

[doggies ftw]

Any concussion experts out there?

Are there less concussions now that the sling tackles are banned? Has the trend been lower in the last decade the the previous? Guessing they didn’t track this that closely in the 90s

How many concussions of medium severity does it take to cause longer term damage?

No expert by any means but I believe it’s very very varied person by person there’s no real magic number where it’s too many. Some guys just seem to be very prone and even the slightest of knocks can trigger it whilst other blokes can take a huge knock with nothing to show for it. At the end of the day one is too many and can do pretty severe damage.

Hannan for example I don’t even think anyone including himself knew he was concussed until days after and now he’s still struggling, whilst who knows how many Picko had before one finally made him struggle. Both of Timmy’s have been big knocks, the first especially was absolutely brutal. I can’t really remember him being concussed before these 2 but other people seem to think he’s had more? I don’t think it’s at the stage with Timmy where he’s getting concussed from innocuous incidents, that’s when you really worry.

 

[Doggies7]

Is it time for English to start wearing a scone protector?

Can't be good long term.

I understand the new tech ones are quite effective.

Helmets unfortunately don't help at all with concussion. The concussion comes from the brain impacting the inner skull wall for the most part I believe. The helmet will only protect against superficial cuts / fractures etc to the outside of the skull.

Some studies have actually found that players wearing a helmet leads to an increased risk of concussion due to a more invincible feeling, and players leading with their heads ala NFL players helmet to helmet contact.

 

[Arkangel]

Helmets unfortunately don't help at all with concussion. The concussion comes from the brain impacting the inner skull wall for the most part I believe. The helmet will only protect against superficial cuts / fractures etc to the outside of the skull.

Some studies have actually found that players wearing a helmet leads to an increased risk of concussion due to a more invincible feeling, and players leading with their heads ala NFL players helmet to helmet contact.

I know very little about the topic, so apologies if this is a very ignorant (not to mention rambling) question. (Not specifically directed at you either, but your post got me thinking.)

If concussion results primarily from the impact of the brain on the inside of the skull, this is presumably a result of a sudden change of direction, right? For instance, the head was moving at a certain speed in one direction, but then as a result of an impact (e.g., with a player, or the ground), the skull moves in a new direction (or stops altogether) while momentum leads the brain to continue in its initial direction until it impacts the skull. Is this the idea?

In that case, why do we only see concussion following direct impacts to the head, rather than body hits or tackles where a player is slung to the ground without direct impact to the skull? These also cause sudden directional changes. Is it simply that the mechanics of the human body mean that the changes are less severe away from the point of impact (e.g., the head gradually sways when the body is hit—sort of like rebounding at the end of a bungee jump)?

If it’s the case that less severe directional changes resulting from indirect impacts reduce the probability of concussion, then would the same not also be true if players were to wear heavily padded helmets (i.e., not rigid ones as are worn in American or Canadian Football, but something a lot more... foamy)? Is it just that obtaining a gain sufficient enough to make a noticeable difference concussion-wise would require helmets that are so large as to be impractical?

 

[Chalky White]

Aliir was pretty ordinary at Sydney. Roughead was delistable in his last season with us. Sam Collins was a player that Freo thought wasn't up to it. There are lots of examples of good defenders that weren't valued.

O'Brien is exactly the type of player I want us to continue to invest in. Getting them for cheap lets us keep the rest of the list balanced and you can churn through them quickly until we find one that's a hidden gem. Melbourne made it work by investing a lot of money in May and Lever but it took several years and it arguably cost them a chance to look at any good forwards until Ben Brown lost all value after one bad season.

Allir was always going to be okay. I don't think Sydney were too kind to him. He ismore an intercept defender, they were wanting him to play as an accountable one on one type defender.
Roughy only got games at Collingwood as they were decimated at that time. He was serviceable for them, nothing more. Funnily enough I was talking to a mate who is a big Pie man and we were talking about Roughies retirement. He was suggesting he was a great club person but nothing more than a bit part player. Exactly how he was with us really.
Sam Collins is the odd one out. He can definitely play. I am very disappointed that we weren't proactive enough with him.

Sometimes you have to invest in good debt rather than rubbish debt. A player like Justin Sherman was bad debt...May and Lever are good debt as you can build a team around them.

 

[Chalky White]

I did suggest Bailey Smith to Hawthorn, get Mitch Lewis in return, he is our KPF, Naughton is our KPD but understand not a lot love that idea. Unfortunately Dunkley wouldn't get us a prime key position player I wouldn't have thought.

We would want to get a big sweetener in that deal. I know Bailey Smith is a good mid, but, could we conceivably get a very good defender and some change out of a deal like that? All theoretical i know.
But if we could theoretically get Tom Barrass for Bailey Smith....would it be worth it?

 

[Bald]

We would want to get a big sweetener in that deal. I know Bailey Smith is a good mid, but, could we conceivably get a very good defender and some change out of a deal like that? All theoretical i know.
But if we could theoretically get Tom Barrass for Bailey Smith....would it be worth it?

I actually rate Mitch Lewis and moving Naughton down back as superior to getting Tom Barass. Doesn’t matter anyway, Smith likely to re-sign soon.

Dunkley is the interesting one. If we could somehow turn him into Tom Barass I’d do it.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Re: Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

the next step in his evolution is hitting the scoreboard with a bit more frequency. I'm not expecting the semi or prelim final every game but 4 goals from his 10 games this year is disappointing. Maybe that is directly related to his often poor disposal but I'd take 20 touches and a goal a game over his 40 possession games with 4-5 clangers.

 

[goodcop badcop]

I actually rate Mitch Lewis and moving Naughton down back as superior to getting Tom Barass. Doesn’t matter anyway, Smith likely to re-sign soon.

Dunkley is the interesting one. If we could somehow turn him into Tom Barass I’d do it.

Barass is from WA originally and contracted till 2025. I'd imagine we would have to offer both Barass and West Coast something silly to get them interested. Not sure he's good enough for an offer like that.

Richmond should be all over Dunkley, their midfielders are short and they usually struggle in the clearances. Balta would be nice, he hasn't been going overly well lately and might be unhappy being shifted all over the field.

 

[dergert]

Out of curiousity, what do people think hunter's trade value is?

Contracted to 2024.

 

[Chalky White]

Out of curiousity, what do people think hunter's trade value is?

Contracted to 2024.

Not much.
A late 2nd to 3rd rounder, if lucky.
Unless you can trade a player directly for him

 

[Royale]

Barass is from WA originally and contracted till 2025. I'd imagine we would have to offer both Barass and West Coast something silly to get them interested. Not sure he's good enough for an offer like that.

Richmond should be all over Dunkley, their midfield is short and they usually struggle in the clearances. Balta would be nice, he hasn't been going overly well lately and might be unhappy being shifted all over the field.

I hate that this deal makes Richmond a heck of a lot better than they already are. Tigers would be the perfect landing spot for Dunks.

 

[doggies ftw]

Would do Dunks for Balta in a heartbeat, that’d set us up for years

 

[Royale]

Can we even trade Dunks? Doesn't he walk at the end of the year? (And we get compo)

 

[Mofra]

Out of curiousity, what do people think hunter's trade value is?

Contracted to 2024.

Cap space giving us the chance to make a big offer to a FA?
At this stage, cap space is more valuable to us than any pick outside the first round.

We may have "mid-price" players we could move on to grab a big fish too. Let's not forget the ruck cash (Soldo) we set aside last year and didn't use.

 

[goodcop badcop]

Can we even trade Dunks?

Yes. Only served 7 years, so isn't a free agent.

 

[Bald]

Can we even trade Dunks? Doesn't he walk at the end of the year? (And we get compo)

No. Clubs still need to trade for him or he can enter the PSD.

 

[dergert]

Cap space giving us the chance to make a big offer to a FA?
At this stage, cap space is more valuable to us than any pick outside the first round.

We may have "mid-price" players we could move on to grab a big fish too. Let's not forget the ruck cash (Soldo) we set aside last year and didn't use.

Soldo was in the reserves this past weekend. We may still be sniffing around.

 

[dergert]

Soldo was in the reserves this past weekend. We may still be sniffing around.

Scrap that. He's signed for three more years.