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Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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Just a comment on the Scott two year deal. Good luck to him and a reward for effort and his hard work. I see him as a good solid foot soldier who is getting more reliable.
But I can’t reconcile why we would do that and only give Libba one year deals. I get that Libba is ok with it but his contribution exceeds Scott’s and even given the age difference I would be confident Libbas contribution will be the greater in year 2. I doubt other clubs were queuing up to get Scott. Not a die in the ditch decision but a head scratcher for me.
 
Mr. Walker said:
Just a comment on the Scott two year deal. Good luck to him and a reward for effort and his hard work. I see him as a good solid foot soldier who is getting more reliable.
But I can’t reconcile why we would do that and only give Libba one year deals. I get that Libba is ok with it but his contribution exceeds Scott’s and even given the age difference I would be confident Libbas contribution will be the greater in year 2. I doubt other clubs were queuing up to get Scott. Not a die in the ditch decision but a head scratcher for me.
Click to expand...
You need to factor in the monetary component and injury history too.
 
Mr. Walker said:
Just a comment on the Scott two year deal. Good luck to him and a reward for effort and his hard work. I see him as a good solid foot soldier who is getting more reliable.
But I can’t reconcile why we would do that and only give Libba one year deals. I get that Libba is ok with it but his contribution exceeds Scott’s and even given the age difference I would be confident Libbas contribution will be the greater in year 2. I doubt other clubs were queuing up to get Scott. Not a die in the ditch decision but a head scratcher for me.
Click to expand...

Libba is likely getting more money on his 1 year deal than Scott would get on a four year deal. Total earnings would be vastly different for the two players.
 
Mr. Walker said:
Just a comment on the Scott two year deal. Good luck to him and a reward for effort and his hard work. I see him as a good solid foot soldier who is getting more reliable.
But I can’t reconcile why we would do that and only give Libba one year deals. I get that Libba is ok with it but his contribution exceeds Scott’s and even given the age difference I would be confident Libbas contribution will be the greater in year 2. I doubt other clubs were queuing up to get Scott. Not a die in the ditch decision but a head scratcher for me.
Click to expand...
Libba has noted before that he prefers the one year deals. Not to mention he resigned until the end of 2024 all the way back in March so it’s not like he’s waiting until the end of the year to sign the contract.

He was dealing with a fair amount of significant knee soreness a few years ago which has miraculously gone away as he’s aged
 

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Yeah Bedendo had some special qualities and great physical traits, I really hope we give him another year to try and get his body right. We seem to have quite a few already to cull besides him
 
Bedendo should get another contract.

Imagine if we delisted Easton Wood after playing 2 games in 2 seasons.

But you don’t delist athletic guys who show they belong.
 
I do think Bedendo gets overhyped around here, hasn’t shown a hell of a lot for mine other than athleticism. Understand he’s still very young and has had injury interruptions.

Still we should probably give him another year given the below who you you could either make a case should be delisted before Bedendo, or might just leave of their own accord

Crozier
Duryea retire?
McLean?
Bruce retiring?
O’Brien
Buku?
McComb
Hannan
McNeil?
Williams FA?
Roarke?
Sweet trade request
 
doggy_dog said:
I do think Bedendo gets overhyped around here, hasn’t shown a hell of a lot for mine other than athleticism. Understand he’s still very young and has had injury interruptions.

Still we should probably give him another year given the below who you you could either make a case should be delisted before Bedendo, or might just leave of their own accord

Crozier
Duryea retire?
McLean?
Bruce retiring?
O’Brien
Buku?
McComb
Hannan
McNeil?
Williams FA?
Roarke?
Sweet trade request
Click to expand...
Crozier (delist)
Bruce (retire)
Duryea (retire)
O'Brien (delist)
McComb (delist)
Hannan (delist)
McNeil (delist)
One of Sweet/Williams/Buku will walk

I'm comfortable with that being the level of change over the offseason with 8 cuts. McLean, Roarke & Bedendo can all have one year contracts as depth.
 
doggy_dog said:
I do think Bedendo gets overhyped around here, hasn’t shown a hell of a lot for mine other than athleticism. Understand he’s still very young and has had injury interruptions.

Still we should probably give him another year given the below who you you could either make a case should be delisted before Bedendo, or might just leave of their own accord

Crozier
Duryea retire?
McLean?
Bruce retiring?
O’Brien
Buku?
McComb
Hannan
McNeil?
Williams FA?
Roarke?
Sweet trade request
Click to expand...
That's 12, and then there are a few guys we've been linked to. I do suspect we somehow manage to re-sign Williams though, as much as it looked shaky a few months ago.

Given the 'list spot' rule is in force again for academy and FS bid matching there's every chance we look at delisting then putting a couple of guys on the rookie list, just so we can use our late picks to match the Croft bid
 
Golden_6 said:
Crozier (delist)
Bruce (retire)
Duryea (retire)
O'Brien (delist)
McComb (delist)
Hannan (delist)
McNeil (delist)
One of Sweet/Williams/Buku will walk

I'm comfortable with that being the level of change over the offseason with 8 cuts. McLean, Roarke & Bedendo can all have one year contracts as depth.
Click to expand...

It is possible 2 (Sweet and Buku) will walk.

Williams we keep hearing contract to be signed soon but you never know (see Jordan Dawson)
 
Cudi said:
Bedendo should get another contract.

Imagine if we delisted Easton Wood after playing 2 games in 2 seasons.

But you don’t delist athletic guys who show they belong.
Click to expand...
There were a few posters in here who wanted to get rid of Wood back in the day. Some saw him as a list clogger.

The club knew what they had and were willing to persevere with him, fortunately.

Patience is a virtue.
 
GetDimmaBack said:
There were a few posters in here who wanted to get rid of Wood back in the day. Some saw him as a list clogger.

The club knew what they had and were willing to persevere with him, fortunately.

Patience is a virtue.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone is really wanting Dom delisted more so just unsure over the outrage about relisting him as a rookie given his injury history and lack of AFL production so far
 

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GetDimmaBack said:
There were a few posters in here who wanted to get rid of Wood back in the day. Some saw him as a list clogger.

The club knew what they had and were willing to persevere with him, fortunately.

Patience is a virtue.
Click to expand...
Not always. There is an opportunity cost of holding a list spot for a player who has shown glimpses but never been able to put solid stretches together due to form/injury. I'm happy to keep Bedendo on for now but the club has been guilty of holding late pick players with these kind of issues for too long with little to no reward (eg Prudden, Greene, Lynch, arguably Jong, Redpath, Roarke etc).

And Easton Wood played 11 games in his 3rd year after 2 in his 2nd, compared to 2 games in 3 years for Bedendo (albeit presumably due to injury this year). After his 2nd year he was at least a regular in the team unlike most of the above names.
 
Sentinel said:
Not always. There is an opportunity cost of holding a list spot for a player who has shown glimpses but never been able to put solid stretches together due to form/injury. I'm happy to keep Bedendo on for now but the club has been guilty of holding late pick players with these kind of issues for too long with little to no reward (eg Prudden, Greene, Lynch, arguably Jong, Redpath, Roarke etc).

And Easton Wood played 11 games in his 3rd year after 2 in his 2nd, compared to 2 games in 3 years for Bedendo (albeit presumably due to injury this year). After his 2nd year he was at least a regular in the team unlike most of the above names.
Click to expand...
The opportunity cost is a very valid point. The other is cap - generally, draftees on a 2 year AFL mandated contact are on less salary than guys with multiple years in the system. It actually helps our TPP to regularly turn the list over.
 
Past experience is no guarantee of future performance.

For every Easton Wood there is a Robbie McComb, a Lewis Young or a Lukas Webb. Some come good, some need a change of environment to kickstart their career and some just don’t quite make it.

It’s not an exact science and no club gets it 100% right. List circumstances can also force difficult decisions to be brought forward.

Given the number of players likely to drop off the list anyway this year I think we can afford to keep both Bedendo and Roarke but if one or both have to go then I can live with that. Besides we probably don’t want to clean out all our marginal players in one hit. A progressive cull is better so why not keep the ones most likely to offer us something?
 
Mofra said:
The opportunity cost is a very valid point. The other is cap - generally, draftees on a 2 year AFL mandated contact are on less salary than guys with multiple years in the system. It actually helps our TPP to regularly turn the list over.
Click to expand...
I guess the (unconfirmed) plan to delist and re-rookie him would address that to a degree.
 

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dogwatch said:
Past experience is no guarantee of future performance.

For every Easton Wood there is a Robbie McComb, a Lewis Young or a Lukas Webb. Some come good, some need a change of environment to kickstart their career and some just don’t quite make it.

It’s not an exact science and no club gets it 100% right. List circumstances can also force difficult decisions to be brought forward.

Given the number of players likely to drop off the list anyway this year I think we can afford to keep both Bedendo and Roarke but if one or both have to go then I can live with that. Besides we probably don’t want to clean out all our marginal players in one hit. A progressive cull is better so why not keep the ones most likely to offer us something?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if Easton Wood is a very good comparison point here either. I'd say his early career tracked far closer to Laith Vandermeer than Dom Bedendo or other project players. An athletic type who took a short while to get going but then became an inconsistent regular with injury concerns in his early years, but still featured in the side often.

I'm far from writing Bedendo off yet and don't mind the move to put him on the rookie list for 1/max 2 years and give him a little more time to show what he can do. Bedendo originally being picked (very late) in the national draft I think makes people see him in a different light compared to if he was taken in the rookie draft, but he was and still is a fairly raw project player.
 
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The Roarke vs Bedendo debate (if it came down to the last one to be delisted) is an interesting psychological phenomenon. In general we fans get more excited by players who seem to have a higher ceiling even if they have no senior form to support it yet (Bedendo).

Players at their peak age with a much lower ceiling but with demonstrated form and attitude including in finals (like Roarke) don’t capture the imagination and our yearning for the next superstar. However they may be the smarter choice in most instances.

I’m not arguing for one nor the other. Just saying that our perspective may be quite different to that of the professionals who have to manage the list.
 
dogwatch said:
The Roarke vs Bedendo debate (if it came down to the last one to be delisted) is an interesting psychological phenomenon. In general we fans get more excited by players who seem to have a higher ceiling even if they have no senior form to support it yet (Bedendo).

Players at their peak age with a much lower ceiling but with demonstrated form and attitude including in finals (like Roarke) don’t capture the imagination and our yearning for the next superstar. However they may be the smarter choice in most instances.

I’m not arguing for one nor the other. Just saying that our perspective may be quite different to that of the professionals who have to manage the list.
Click to expand...
I actually don't think the exposed form vs potential conversation is overly relevant here. I think most people have come around to Roarke since he has been consistently amongst our best when other more storied players have lowered their colours.

The issue with Roarke is as it always has been: he can't stay on the park. He has been on the list for 9 years now and for a combination of form and injury, we are yet to be able to rely on him for more than 14 games a year - and that was the only time it's been over 10. Over the past three years, he's played in 43 games at AFL/VFL level combined, out of a presumed 70+ by the time you account for finals.

This should be Roarke's prime but his body just cannot be relied on. It's time to move on.

Bedendo should be a separate question, isolated to how we feel about him and how capable he is of reaching his potential.
 
Dogs are considering a one year deal for Bruce

Would mainly work with the AFLW and VFL/W teams as part of his rehab
 
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