Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[dogwatch]

I actually don't think the exposed form vs potential conversation is overly relevant here. I think most people have come around to Roarke since he has been consistently amongst our best when other more storied players have lowered their colours.

The issue with Roarke is as it always has been: he can't stay on the park. He has been on the list for 9 years now and for a combination of form and injury, we are yet to be able to rely on him for more than 14 games a year - and that was the only time it's been over 10. Over the past three years, he's played in 43 games at AFL/VFL level combined, out of a presumed 70+ by the time you account for finals.

This should be Roarke's prime but his body just cannot be relied on. It's time to move on.

Bedendo should be a separate question, isolated to how we feel about him and how capable he is of reaching his potential.

No, I think they are quite comparable. Both are being criticised as being too injury prone even if Roarke's case study is over a longer period.

I'm not a fan of the "injury prone" tag BTW. In most cases I think a lot of it comes down to plain bad luck.

If they can get themselves on the park they both have something to offer. Roarke's offerings (& ceiling) are proven. Bedendo's ... not yet.

 

[dogwatch]

True, but surely it’s the way to bet.

(In before others- I didn’t call you Shirley)

My point was that it depends on which past experience we base our claim on ... Wood, McComb, Webb, Young ... ?

 

[dogwatch]

Dogs are considering a one year deal for Bruce

Would mainly work with the AFLW and VFL/W teams as part of his rehab

Can they offer Bubba a rookie deal in the same vein?

 

[Bulldogs85]

Dogs are considering a one year deal for Bruce

Would mainly work with the AFLW and VFL/W teams as part of his rehab

Glad they are keeping Bruce around

 

[doggies ftw]

Love Brucey but why the **** would you do that and waste salary cap? If that’s his job he can be paid outside the cap as a AFLW coach? Sounds ridiculously stupid

 

[doggies ftw]

Also you campaigners are sleeping big time on Bedendo, hit me up in 3 years so I can gloat at my obvious superior talent identification.

He’ll be the best player outside the 22 currently, other than Darcy. He’ll be a jet, seriously seriously talented.

Would happily lose Buss or Clarke before I lost Bedendo personally. But sure throw him away so we can fit Sullivan on the list or some bs or offer O’Brien an extra year

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

No, I think they are quite comparable. Both are being criticised as being too injury prone even if Roarke's case study is over a longer period.

I'm not a fan of the "injury prone" tag BTW. In most cases I think a lot of it comes down to plain bad luck.

If they can get themselves on the park they both have something to offer. Roarke's offerings (& ceiling) are proven. Bedendo's ... not yet.

I just don't think it's fair to imply that the key difference between them is that Roarke has shown something and Bedendo is mostly potential. Being unable to stay on the field over 9 seasons has to be looked upon more concerningly than over three, irrespective of their output.

Re: the injury proneness comment - I agree to an extent, but at some point "bad luck" becomes probabilistically unlikely. We have really good evidence that some injuries have a high rate of recurrence - ACLs and foot injuries being some of the most notorious.

I guess what I am saying is that I'm not sleeping on Roarke's ability/output here like your original post implied. I would have him in the team right now if I could - but for almost a decade now, that phrase "If I could" has been uttered more frequently than I've actually been able to have him in the team. For that reason, I can't justify putting him back on the list. In contrast, Bedendo has not shown near as much, but I don't see his injury history as being unsalvageable. I would give him one more year and if he can't stay fit, that's that.

The distinction is about the likelihood an injured player can overcome that 'bad luck' for me.

 

[VitalDread]

Love Brucey but why the * would you do that and waste salary cap? If that’s his job he can be paid outside the cap as a AFLW coach? Sounds ridiculously stupid

Burce is at veteran level of salary now
So wouldn't be expensive to have a culture guy on the list

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

There were a few posters in here who wanted to get rid of Wood back in the day. Some saw him as a list clogger.

The club knew what they had and were willing to persevere with him, fortunately.

Patience is a virtue.

And others who thought our Norm Smith medalist JJ was a list clogger. Sometimes the club can see what we can’t.

 

[Golden_6]

Love Brucey but why the * would you do that and waste salary cap? If that’s his job he can be paid outside the cap as a AFLW coach? Sounds ridiculously stupid

Yeah it's plain stupid. You want to keep him around in an off field role for AFLW? Great but actually employ him in that role. He's not providing us anything in a playing role next season at AFL level.

 

[Pocket Terrace]

Burce is at veteran level of salary now
So wouldn't be expensive to have a culture guy on the list

So employ him as a culture guy then, not as a listed player that won’t play.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

So employ him as a culture guy then, not as a listed player that won’t play.

But then it cuts into the soft cap - something that we have admitted many times is tight, which will cut into our ability to attract assistants/medical staff etc.

I don't like it either and would prefer we didn't, but the idea would be to employ an extra coach without paying a coach wage.

 

[Del165892]

I don't want Bruce on the list next year. We got one good season out of the guy. He seems like a nice guy but that contract really backfired on us. Time to cut our losses.

 

[Bald]

I don’t mind the Bruce deal if it’s the same as the Stefan Martin

8

Stefan Martin

Age

39

Ht

198cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.4

4star

K

8.4

3star

HB

8.0

5star

CL

4.0

5star

HO

23.5

5star

D

6.4

1star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.2

2star

CL

2.6

4star

HO

18.4

5star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.6

4star

HO

1.0

4star

one in 2022 where he was purely being paid through the salary cap to be an off field figure.

Then hopefully he retires before the mid point of the season and opens up a spot in the mid season draft.

 

[LovevShaqBB13]

We arent in the business of charity contracts....

 

[Foxman98]

We arent in the business of charity contracts....

It's not a charity contract,

He would be a coach paid in the players salary cap

 

[Dog 36]

It's not a charity contract,

He would be a coach paid in the players salary cap

What has everyone seen in Bruce that makes him some sort of coach?

 

[Foxman98]

What has everyone seen in Bruce that makes him some sort of coach?

The best our forward line ever looked was him pre ACL he understands structures leading patterns ect,

Listen to the way the younger kids talk about his help and leadership

 

[Norm De Guerre]

It was pretty clear when we tried to shoehorn Bruce into a defensive unit that didn't really need him. That his opportunities with us this year and beyond year were going to be limited. A role thats only reason for being was in my view a misguided sense of loyalty towards a popular clubman. As a supporter it never made an iota of sense. I suspect that he saw the writing on the wall and it's why he'd being working with the AFLW side with an eye towards what comes next for him. Injury or not, being at the end of a contract and with no discernible role in the team he was looking over the precipice.

So, If Bruce is so integral to team moral, culture and he's somebody who pretty obviously has an eye towards coaching.

Then the decision should be an easy one. He calls time on his career and we hire him as a line or assistant coach as part of our supposed coaching shake up. God knows we could do with more of those.

 

[Dog 36]

The best our forward line ever looked was him pre ACL he understands structures leading patterns ect,

Listen to the way the younger kids talk about his help and leadership

That's Bruce as a player whilst coaching is a different gig.

Prefer we cast the net far and wide and make sure we do our due diligence and get the best possible assistants.

Our assistants are poor compared to other teams especially the top 8 teams.

 

[Foxman98]

That's Bruce as a player whilst coaching is a different gig.

Prefer we cast the net far and wide and make sure we do our due diligence and get the best possible assistants.

Our assistants are poor compared to other teams especially the top 8 teams.

Why? Cheap assistant that already knows the players and system and is outside the soft cap

He won't be one of the main assistants just like Stef wasn't

 

[Unorth]

It was pretty clear when we tried to shoehorn Bruce into a defensive unit that didn't really need him. That his opportunities with us this year and beyond year were going to be limited. A role thats only reason for being was in my view a misguided sense of loyalty towards a popular clubman. As a supporter it never made an iota of sense. I suspect that he saw the writing on the wall and it's why he'd being working with the AFLW side with an eye towards what comes next for him. Injury or not, being at the end of a contract and with no discernible role in the team he was looking over the precipice.

So, If Bruce is so integral to team moral, culture and he's somebody who pretty obviously has an eye towards coaching.

Then the decision should be an easy one. He calls time on his career and we hire him as a line or assistant coach as part of our supposed coaching shake up. God knows we could do with more of those.

Agree with all of this - if we have to forfeit a list spot on Bruce because our soft cap is fked…isn’t that a bit insane?

And it wouldn’t even be like a Stef Martin, injury insurance ruck coach. We would need a team plane to go down for Bruce to get a game in 2024.

Not doubting VD or anything, in fact I find the possibility sadly very believable. All of Bruce’s games in 2022 and 2023 have been at the expense of team performance, but the love for him is such…

 

[Pocket Terrace]

But then it cuts into the soft cap - something that we have admitted many times is tight, which will cut into our ability to attract assistants/medical staff etc.

I don't like it either and would prefer we didn't, but the idea would be to employ an extra coach without paying a coach wage.

I understand what you are saying and appreciate the constraints around the soft cap, but wouldn't paying him as an assistant coach of our AFLW and VFLW teams be peanuts when compared with an annual player salary within the player cap? Keeping a contracted player (even on minimum rookie wage) on the list seems an expensive way of keeping an assistant coach around.

 

[Dog 36]

Why? Cheap assistant that already knows the players and system and is outside the soft cap

He won't be one of the main assistants just like Stef wasn't

If he is the best candidate for the role you describe I am all for it BUT do our due diligence and cast the net to make sure we are getting the best candidate.

I get sick and tired seeing other clubs assistants and support staff compared to the Dogs assistants and support staff.

 

[Foxman98]

If he is the best candidate for the role you describe I am all for it BUT do our due diligence and cast the net to make sure we are getting the best candidate.

I get sick and tired seeing other clubs assistants and support staff compared to the Dogs assistants and support staff.

What role? We are having him there to develop our talls as he already has a relationship with them and is already on our list,

You are literally complaining that our assistants and support staff are poor whilst complaining that we are signing one who is already well respected at the club outside of the soft cap meaning we have more room in the soft cap to sign more players?