Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[_Mike_]

Opposition supporters coming to troll , you have been warned

 

[low impact and reckless]

I’m honestly struggling to understand what the Western Bulldogs’ strategy is. We’ve had two years of stagnation, two years of visible flaws on the list, and yet two trade periods in a row with zero meaningful aggression.

This isn’t about being reckless — it’s about ambition. And every recent premiership team shows exactly how it’s done.

Let’s look at the last 8 Grand Final-winning sides and what they did to get better:

2023 – Collingwood

Added key pieces over multiple trade periods (Bobby Hill, Lipinski, McStay).

Took calculated risks to fill gaps.


2022 – Geelong

Traded in Jeremy Cameron one of the biggest acquisition moves in modern footy.

Also brought in Tyson Stengle cheaply and turned him into an All-Australian.


2021 – Melbourne

Brought in Steven May and Jake Lever in consecutive aggressive trade periods.

Those two moves literally built their backline.


2020 – Richmond

Added Tom Lynch in 2019 — that was their “we’re going again” moment.

They didn't sit idle when they were already contenders.


2019 – West Coast

Traded for Tim Kelly immediately after their flag to stay in the window.


2018 – Richmond

Again — Lynch. They topped up rather than tinkered.


2017 – Richmond

Dion Prestia and Josh Caddy both traded in. They didn’t “hope for improvement,” they bought it.


2016 – Western Bulldogs

Even we traded for significant role players (Tom Boyd the year prior, Matt Suckling, etc.).

Ironically, the last time we showed ambition was before we won the damn thing.


And then look at Brisbane — who just keep swinging:

Lachie Neale (Brownlow winner)

Josh Dunkley (our own best and fairest!)

They’ve landed big names because they’re targeting improvement, not hoping it happens.


Meanwhile… the Dogs?

Two years of defensive issues → no key back acquired.

Midfield mix unbalanced → no hard-running winger or explosive mid brought in.

Forward line still too reliant on Naughton/luck → no serious trade targets landed.

Fringe/depth players clogging the list → no bold calls made.


We talk about “backing our group” but the group hasn’t improved — and the rest of the comp has. Doing nothing is not a strategy. Waiting for development is not a plan when you're supposedly in the window.

At some point, inaction becomes a choice — and it looks like a club that’s content finishing 6th–12th forever.

If clubs like Geelong, Collingwood, GC, St Kilda and Brisbane can be aggressive — what’s our excuse?

Where is the ambition? Where is the improvement? Where is the pressure on list management?

Because right now, it feels like we’re the only supposed contender trying to win a flag without actually changing anything.

This should be read out at the Dogs AGM

 

[JTCWBFC]

I’m honestly struggling to understand what the Western Bulldogs’ strategy is. We’ve had two years of stagnation, two years of visible flaws on the list, and yet two trade periods in a row with zero meaningful aggression.

This isn’t about being reckless — it’s about ambition. And every recent premiership team shows exactly how it’s done.

Let’s look at the last 8 Grand Final-winning sides and what they did to get better:

2023 – Collingwood

Added key pieces over multiple trade periods (Bobby Hill, Lipinski, McStay).

Took calculated risks to fill gaps.


2022 – Geelong

Traded in Jeremy Cameron one of the biggest acquisition moves in modern footy.

Also brought in Tyson Stengle cheaply and turned him into an All-Australian.


2021 – Melbourne

Brought in Steven May and Jake Lever in consecutive aggressive trade periods.

Those two moves literally built their backline.


2020 – Richmond

Added Tom Lynch in 2019 — that was their “we’re going again” moment.

They didn't sit idle when they were already contenders.


2019 – West Coast

Traded for Tim Kelly immediately after their flag to stay in the window.


2018 – Richmond

Again — Lynch. They topped up rather than tinkered.


2017 – Richmond

Dion Prestia and Josh Caddy both traded in. They didn’t “hope for improvement,” they bought it.


2016 – Western Bulldogs

Even we traded for significant role players (Tom Boyd the year prior, Matt Suckling, etc.).

Ironically, the last time we showed ambition was before we won the damn thing.


And then look at Brisbane — who just keep swinging:

Lachie Neale (Brownlow winner)

Josh Dunkley (our own best and fairest!)

They’ve landed big names because they’re targeting improvement, not hoping it happens.


Meanwhile… the Dogs?

Two years of defensive issues → no key back acquired.

Midfield mix unbalanced → no hard-running winger or explosive mid brought in.

Forward line still too reliant on Naughton/luck → no serious trade targets landed.

Fringe/depth players clogging the list → no bold calls made.


We talk about “backing our group” but the group hasn’t improved — and the rest of the comp has. Doing nothing is not a strategy. Waiting for development is not a plan when you're supposedly in the window.

At some point, inaction becomes a choice — and it looks like a club that’s content finishing 6th–12th forever.

If clubs like Geelong, Collingwood, GC, St Kilda and Brisbane can be aggressive — what’s our excuse?

Where is the ambition? Where is the improvement? Where is the pressure on list management?

Because right now, it feels like we’re the only supposed contender trying to win a flag without actually changing anything.

Nailed it

 

[St 07]

No that was scrag a completely different poster!

Noone else could have predicted the Bramble Gamble would pay off so well

 

[Anja_Nees]

Id rather go after quality than spuds like Aleer

Would love to have landed a Wilkie or Butters but I don’t see any point in recruiting just because it’s trade week.

If no one who is going to slot straight into the side in an area of need is available I don’t want us chasing list cloggers.

Look at where Coffield and O’Brien took us.

 

[JTCWBFC]

The alternative action to not landing guns isn’t just list cloggers, it’s to improve your system for identifying players and selling the club AND making sure we go the extra mile above and beyond other clubs so you can land them.

 

[dogwatch]

I can confirm your analysis, Stockholm also has a similar % of beautiful women.
I even went into macca's to see if there were some average women .....nope good looking as well.

So did you have one with the lot?

 

[dogwatch]

Nobody has seen Smiley Boy blink for 3 years

 

[W W Biscuit]

Would love to have landed a Wilkie or Butters but I don’t see any point in recruiting just because it’s trade week.

If no one who is going to slot straight into the side in an area of need is available I don’t want us chasing list cloggers.

Look at where Coffield and O’Brien took us.

I think the point that some posters are making is that every week is trade week. The trade period is just the culmination of months, sometimes a couple of years, of strategic planning to target key personnel and get deals over the line. The criticism is that, when compared to many other clubs, our approach seems to lack intent and comes across as passive, even timid. I find it hard to disagree with that criticism when we repeatedly fail to address some pretty obvious needs in our list via trading. Again, I stress, this is over time and not just in the few days that the AFL and the media hype as 'the trade period.'

 

[dogwatch]

Why does your writing style look so much like ChatGPT? All of this "it's not this - it's that" with em dashes everywhere.

Wot? Is ChatGPT copying my writing style?

I'm gonna sue 'em for every billion they've got!

 

[dogwatch]

He would definitely make us better. If we do 33 and Buku for 22 from the blues, I’d then pass 22 on to the swans for him. Takes JJs spot or is an upgrade on Bramble.

Haven't followed him closely. IIRC he can use the ball well and breaks the lines. However I've heard (here) that he is very poor defensively - pressure acts, tackles, etc.

Is that correct? We need to ramp up the pressure next year, not dial it down.

I see he averages 2.15 tackles a game over his career. Slightly under 2.00 over the last 3 years. They are lowish numbers but still way ahead of Dale or Bramble. A quick check in Wheelo suggests he is roughly around the 50th centile on other measures too - one-on-one success, pressure acts, spoils etc.

Probably better and more skilful than Bramble but I wouldn't want us to pay a lot for him. Especially as he is being nudged out.

 

[Claythesmiths]

I may be on my lonesome, but I'm still a fan of Ballard from the Suns. Surplus to their needs, a real heart and soul type. Has played some ruck but I prefer him as a KPD.

Surely he's gettable too, RFA next year.

This is the thing for me - we have a couple of significant areas of need which if we could get right turn us into top 4 challengers immediately. It makes complete sense that we’d chase A-graders like Wilkie and offer them big deals but getting an A-grader isn’t always easy or even necessary.

Surely it’d be doable to turn the head of a B-grader key back if we offer enough incentive? Sometimes you have to overpay and there’s no shame in that.

It’s very different to the St. Kilda situation - their list is pretty average and overpaying for B-graders won’t get them very far, in my opinion. For us chasing someone like Ballard, Butts or any of a dozen B-grade key backs and paying whatever was needed to get them in is what could transform us to contenders, but our list management team seem so averse to ever being accused of overpaying.

 

[Dogs Rule]

This is the thing for me - we have a couple of significant areas of need which if we could get right turn us into top 4 challengers immediately. It makes complete sense that we’d chase A-graders like Wilkie and offer them big deals but getting an A-grader isn’t always easy or even necessary.

Surely it’d be doable to turn the head of a B-grader key back if we offer enough incentive? Sometimes you have to overpay and there’s no shame in that.

It’s very different to the St. Kilda situation - their list is pretty average and overpaying for B-graders won’t get them very far, in my opinion. For us chasing someone like Ballard, Butts or any of a dozen B-grade key backs and paying whatever was needed to get them in is what could transform us to contenders, but our list management team seem so averse to ever being accused of overpaying.

Hey, don't worry, the club tells us the improvement will come from within...

Grand Final 2026 here we come.

 

[A dog in Qld]

This is a discussion forum. We are discussing the club.
Nobody is "triggered". You're welcome to spend your time elsewhere if discussing the club annoys you.

Nah ... I'll stick around and enjoy the pomposity

 

[MaxiBont]

Nah ... I'll stick around and enjoy the pomposity

I don’t think people are trying to be pompous, they just want to discuss possibilities and ways for the team to get better.

I’m 99.9% sure that everyone in here knows that their comments aren’t going to change anything.

 

[Chadley]

I don’t disagree that we’ve asked the question on a few players — but that’s not the same as actually executing a strategy.

Going after Wilkie, SOS Jnr, Erasmus etc. is fine in theory… but missing out over and over again isn’t bad luck, it’s a pattern. And patterns come from approach.

A few points you’re overlooking:

1. “We tried” isn’t ambition — landing talent is

Every club in the comp “asks the question.” The successful ones close the deal. Collingwood missed on Grundy and got McStay/Hill/Lipinski. Brisbane missed on plenty and still got Neale, Dunkley, McKenna, Ah Chee. Geelong asked about everyone and still landed Cameron, Stengle, Bowes, Holmes, Bruhn.

We've had two off-seasons in a row where the net result has been:

Out – quality.
In – fringe.

That’s not bad luck, that’s failure to convert.

2. “We can’t compete with big clubs” is a cop-out

If our pitch is no longer cutting through compared to Geelong/Richmond/Collingwood, that’s on list management and culture, not geography.

You don’t win flags by stockpiling cap space.

3. Drafting well is great — but it’s not a trade strategy

Yes, we draft well. No one disputes that. But drafting well isn’t a get-out-of-jail free card for inactivity.

Every premiership winner in the last decade:

Drafted well AND Traded aggressively to fill structural holes.

We’re doing half of that equation and acting surprised when we stagnate.

4. “We’ll just wait for Butts/Buderick/free agency” is exactly the problem

Other clubs get better now. We keep talking about getting better eventually. That’s why Brisbane, Geelong, GWS and Collingwood keep passing us — they don’t wait for perfect timing.

No one is asking the club to throw $2M at Ashcroft or Daicos. The frustration comes from this idea that:

“We’re trying, but what can you do?”

That’s not ambition. That’s self-preservation dressed up as strategy.

Until we stop celebrating “almosts” and start landing actual best-22 players, nothing changes — and that’s all people are calling out.

all list managers not from Geelong,Bris,Syd,Collingwood and hawks reading this

 

[Chalky White]

My read is that they weren’t going to trade for a defender unless they were clearly better than Buss. It seems they decided Butts wasn’t a big enough upgrade. I’m not sure I agree, but that’s likely the rationale for not going after him more aggressively.

Michael Regan also said on Trade Radio that they’re not planning to trade away future picks and might even look to bring some in. That suggests they’re positioning for something bigger, possibly a major trade next year.

I can think of two dozen defenders that are better than Buss at least. May being obviously one, his character flaws being the issue.
Buss would be in the bottom 10% of kpds at this stage

 

[Foxman98]

I can think of two dozen defenders that are better than Buss at least. May being obviously one, his character flaws being the issue.
Buss would be in the bottom 10% of kpds at this stage

Buss is so bad yet had the same 1 on 1 % as May this year who’s apparently better

 

[Chops]

Buss is so bad yet had the same 1 on 1 % as May this year who’s apparently better

Haha Buss played like 3 full games and 3 half games and rarely on the opposition best forward either or the better sides

 

[cleveland]

Looks like we have $900k spare next year and no one to spend it on. I guess we will front end some contracts.

 

[JohnnySteel]

Looks like we have $900k spare next year and no one to spend it on. I guess we will front end some contracts.

A Freijah pay rise & extension hopefully on the cards as well?

And also West OOC next year too.

 

[DueWest]

A Freijah pay rise & extension hopefully on the cards as well?

And also West OOC next year too.

Freijah and West as long as possible then try to extend Sanders for two at least.

Sanders is the most interesting one with Adelaide trying to get in front of Tassie for him. We won’t want to extend for 1 year only to end of 2027 as that plays straight into Tassies hands.

Two years min on good $$ provides some negotiating power

 

[Doggy]

Adelaide board brought up Freijah and it was said that he is close to signing a new deal at the dogs. Apparently loves the club and gets on well with Beveridge.

 

[Whoyagot]

Hot Butters bakes Suns with outrageous outing

Zak Butters finishes his season with a tremendous performance that included 35 touches, eight marks and eight tackles, farewelling Travis Boak and Ken Hinkley in style

www.afl.com.au

Get excited gang!!

 

[JohnnySteel]

Hot Butters bakes Suns with outrageous outing

Zak Butters finishes his season with a tremendous performance that included 35 touches, eight marks and eight tackles, farewelling Travis Boak and Ken Hinkley in style

www.afl.com.au

Get excited gang!!

Think that ship has sailed, this year anyway.

 

[cleveland]

Surely Dovaston is our selection come the draft? Looks the goods.