Mega Thread Trading, Drafting & General Cattle Rustling Part III

[its game on]

So if we need mature age bodies at Box Hill why doesn't Box Hill recruit them?

Reasonable question, wrong thread though but...............

Murphy, Bateman, Bruce, McCauley, Pattison, Gilham, Boumann, Schnieder all moving on.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

So if we need mature age bodies at Box Hill why doesn't Box Hill recruit them?

Easier said than done. To be any good playing VFL you need to be able to run to keep up with AFL listed players. Pretty hard for a part time player to reach that level of fitness and to have the time to do proper rehab.

 

[marklar]

Yeah....playing at Box Hill.....Cheney style !

I think you'll eat those words next year.

 

[hfc70]

I think you'll eat those words next year.

Hey, I'm a big fan of Cheney ! Been disappointed we traded for him just to wallow in the twos.
Hope you're right, think you might be !

 

[Dewnior]

Yeah....playing at Box Hill.....Cheney style !

Gangnam style >> Cheney style

 

[aussie80s]

Agree with most of what you're saying apart from the fact that i believe we need more mature age and experienced depth players that are ready to play.
Only having one position in our rookie Draft
We need more rookie picks going in the NAB AFL Rookie Draft...Grimley is walking on shaky ground IMO

I can see what you are getting at but lists are no longer big enough for anyone to carry a full squadron of depth players. I realise we are in a premiership window but the depth is fine.

No clubs have that much depth anymore. We have enough depth and have plenty of kids who need to be given game time as well. Fringe players from other clubs are not the way to build a club.

We have brought in 3 mature players in the process of losing a few more so we have covered most of what we lost. As a result we only have 3 draft picks - the equal least of any club. All clubs are getting rid of mature players each year. Sydney have disposed of a lot more and have 8 picks coming up in the draft so there is one team with a premiership window open stocking up on youth. Geelong, as reigning premiers, blooded 10 this year. Do not be afraid of youth.

I liked how we got Spangher off Sydney though, even if I'm not a huge wrap for injury prone players. The Swans needed to clear space to bring Tippett in so Spangher goes out the side door....then Tippett doesn't arrive. Wonder if Sydney would have gotten rid of Spangher and Dennis-Lane if tippett wasn't on their horizon.

If you want depth you have to go back to the 1980's. Here are our Grand Final teams from 1985:

In the senior GF they were: Judge, Mew, Matthews, Russo, Lester-Smith, Ayres, O'Halloran, DiPierdomenico, Morris, Wallace, Tuck, Dunstall, McCarthy, Loveridge, Brereton, Langford, Greene, Schwab, Kennedy and Handley.

Hawthorn's players in the Reserves Grand Final were: Malaxos, Greg Dear, Bennett, Knights, Curran, Byrne, Eade, McGrath, Howard, Bailey, Morrissey, Considine, Ellingworth, Abbott, Flintoff, Wittman, Guerts, Buckenara, Robertson, Teal and Sullivan. Emerg Jencke, Collins

 

[PenAndPaper]

Harry Kewell is a free agent. He's a left footer, im sold!!

 

[lyger]

Hawthorn's players in the Reserves Grand Final were: Malaxos, Greg Dear, Bennett, Knights, Curran, Byrne, Eade, McGrath, Howard, Bailey, Morrissey, Considine, Ellingworth, Abbott, Flintoff, Wittman, Guerts, Buckenara, Robertson, Teal and Sullivan. Emerg Jencke, Collins

That is one hell of a side for a reserves team.... how I miss the days of 'double headers' watching the seconds followed by the seniors!

 

[TeamPlayer23]

I can see what you are getting at but lists are no longer big enough for anyone to carry a full squadron of depth players. I realise we are in a premiership window but the depth is fine.

No clubs have that much depth anymore. We have enough depth and have plenty of kids who need to be given game time as well. Fringe players from other clubs are not the way to build a club.

I just really like the way Sydney utilise their recycled (rejected from other club) players they look for those who show versatility third talls forwards or defenders, or fringe midfielders. They look for where they can add strength and experience in a number of positions or a specific role which makes them a strong club and pushes them up to be in a position of flag contention, where they make their recycled(rejected from other clubs) players appear to be one of the final pieces of the premiership jigsaw puzzle.
IMO... Often it is not pure talent that decides a player's fate, but his body type and skill set, and there are many clubs with those particular needs.

PS Loved the 80s.!!

 

[eldorado]

How many "rejected from other club" players did Sydney just pick up in FA ?

Or do you mean players like Kennedy and McGlynn, who they targeted when they were required players in order to fill a need, just as we did with Burgoyne, Hale, Gibson, Gunston.

Calling them 'rejected' players distorts the reality .

 

[TAITA]

How many "rejected from other club" players did Sydney just pick up in FA ?

Or do you mean players like Kennedy and McGlynn, who they targeted when they were required players in order to fill a need, just as we did with Burgoyne, Hale, Gibson, Gunston.

Calling them 'rejected' players distorts the reality .

Definitely - I have seen articles where the Swans openly admit to identifying, monitoring and targeting players that are not in the extreme upper echelon of rival clubs playing group that they think can become better players at the Swans. It is very calculated.

There's no law against it and everyone does it to a degree (if truth be known - good on them, it's working for them), but to make out the Swans are some sort of ragbag team of misfits made good, the team that no one else wanted, is as big a farce as their 'culture' & COL calls - complete and utter bullshit straight from marketing 1.01.

That people lap it up amazes me.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Definitely - I have seen articles where the Swans openly admit to identifying, monitoring and targeting players that are not in the extreme upper echelon of rival clubs playing group that they think can become better players at the Swans. It is very calculated.

I see it slightly differently.

I think they generally target players that are AFL level, but because of depth at the incumbent club for that position, the players are forced to run around in the reserves or only get the odd appearance at senior level.

Going to the Swans has little to do with them getting better, they were likely to do that anyway - Richards, Mattner, McGlynn, Mumford, Shaw, Seaby, Morton, Walsh, etc all looked there abouts and in most cases, have got better with age as one would expect. Whilst Mumford, Kennedy and Richards in particular have really improved, has Mattner, Seaby and McGlynn really become that much better players? The Swans were able to lure them by identifying that they (the Swans) didn't have a queue of players for that position and the fact that the player would get an extra 30 - 50% salary for moving.

It's calculated yes, but without the COLA it is likely that far fewer players would move. In addition, with the Swans having the extra cap room, the threat of a player leaving the incumbent club and entering the draft with a price on his head is far more real and likely to result in that player ending up at the Swans for nothing.

 

[TeamPlayer23]

Using the term (rejected players), recycled by the swans is meant for us lot, because their is no way we even consider picking up some of the players they have in the last decade.
Morton is the best example that comes to mind, everyone here would laugh if his name was to come up on this board as a player of interest.... Sydney took a chance with him and he basically won the GF for them by kicking what was it, 2-3 goals in the GF.. Not a bad return for a rejected player (as some would call him here) who couldn't even get a game for Richmond... How about yes, I'm going to mention his name Josh Kennedy, obvious they seen something in him that we definitely didn't at that time...

Of the 22 that took to the field against Hawthorn, six had played for other clubs prior to being recruited by the Swans. It would have been seven, had Ben McGlynn not injured his hamstring in the first week of September.
Kennedy joined a growing list of recycled players at the Swans. Rhyce Shaw had joined from Collingwood, Ted Richards from Essendon, Martin Mattner from Adelaide and Ben McGlynn, also from Hawthorn, had established themselves in Sydney’s best 22.
Geelong ruckman Shane Mumford and Richmond forward Mitch Morton soon followed Kennedy’s path to Sydney.
The Swans not only recruited recycled AFL players, but they also turned their attentions to other codes.

Kieren Jack, their 2010 Best and Fairest winner, is the son of rugby league great Garry Jack and was drafted from a rugby league background. Jack, along with Kennedy, has enjoyed a fantastic 2012 season.
Meanwhile Canadian Mike Pyke played 17 tests for Canada’s national rugby union side, famously running the length of the field to score a try against world number one New Zealand in 2007. He was also drafted at the conclusion of the 2008 season.

Its really good to see that Hawthorn have been following suit in the last few years by targeting ready made soldiers in the likes of Gibson, Burgoyne, Hale,Poupolo and Gunston.

I just hope we can continue to see a similar type of plan in progress of picking up this type of ready made soldiers in in our late Draft picks and rookie picks as we've got plenty of youth on our list developing for the future, but our window of opportunity is opened NOW!!!

PS There is to much focus on here about always looking for the next super star and it worries me because we are slowly becoming a team of champions and should really focus more on becoming a Champion team!!!!!

 

[B&GBlood]

You had better as Goo to your list TP23 that makes us five recycled that would have played in the GF and only one or two behind the Swans.

 

[TeamPlayer23]

You had better as Goo to your list TP23 that makes us five recycled that would have played in the GF and only one or two behind the Swans.

True.. But thing is their recycle recruits cost them next to nothing!
We had to give away a fair bit for ours specially for Gibson, Burgoyne.
My point is, that I like the way they went about it in rebuilding there team in such a short time frame after their GF win in 2005, and including the departure of some of the better players in the likes of:
Kennely, Barry Hall, Leo Barry, Jared Crouch, Michael O'Loughlin, Amon Buchanan and Darren Jolly etc..
They have set the example by thinking outside the box when it comes to recruiting mature age players in order to speed up time and stay competitive for so long, and it is only in the last few years now that many clubs are following suit...

PS Add Kieren Jack, and Mike Pyke on the GF list=9

 

[Slattery_20]

Definitely - I have seen articles where the Swans openly admit to identifying, monitoring and targeting players that are not in the extreme upper echelon of rival clubs playing group that they think can become better players at the Swans. It is very calculated.

There's no law against it and everyone does it to a degree (if truth be known - good on them, it's working for them), but to make out the Swans are some sort of ragbag team of misfits made good, the team that no one else wanted, is as big a farce as their 'culture' & COL calls - complete and utter bullshit straight from marketing 1.01.

That people lap it up amazes me.

They target guys who they can justify (on talent & limited performance) 'best 22' type deals for, but their club (for whatever reason) can't justify giving a best 22 spot or deal to.

Look around the league, every list probably has 2-3 of these guys who are good enough, and are/almost are ready to play 20+game seasons, but behind a couple in pecking orders, and off contract.
Even otherwise poxy clubs will often have a strong area or two.

Sydney have made an art form of identifying them and figuring out the right price point for them. They aren't paying Shaw, Mattner, Richards McGlynn etc huge dollars, just more than Coll/Ade/Ess/Haw could afford to at the time.

 

[Watsclarkosmob]

Really hoping we pick up Spencer White with our first pick, the talk about his inconsistency I see as a positive for us as we don't want him peaking too early and want game time only to find himself forth inline behind Roughead, Franklin and Gunston.

 

[savagelunchbox]

Really hoping we pick up Spencer White with our first pick, the talk about his inconsistency I see as a positive for us as we don't want him peaking too early and want game time only to find himself forth inline behind Roughead, Franklin and Gunston.

What are you, an Essendon or Carlton supporter????

 

[Watsclarkosmob]

What are you, an Essendon or Carlton supporter????

I am a Hawthorn supporter and I take offence to such slurs, fxxk you very much. Just don't want to have a talent kid sitting in the twos because we have Roughead, Franklin and Guston ahead of him and Sydney or someone come around at trade week and take him for next to nothing.

 

[eldorado]

I can't get your logic at all, Watsclarkosmob...

 

[Watsclarkosmob]

I can't get your logic at all, Watsclarkosmob...

There's method to the madness....his imperfections will delay his development slightly and mean when we need him he should be right to go as he would be fourth inline behind Buddy, Roughead and Gunston...if we picked up a talented kid in the Jack Darling mould who was able to step up to AFL leave straight away he would be fighting Buddy, Roughead and Gunston for a spot and maybe tempted to move else where for a game. If we do end up picking up a forward we would want him to start reaching his peak at 4-5 years not 2-3.

 

[Jaeger]

There's method to the madness....his imperfections will delay his development slightly and mean when we need him he should be right to go as he would be fourth inline behind Buddy, Roughead and Gunston...if we picked up a talented kid in the Jack Darling mould who was able to step up to AFL leave straight away he would be fighting Buddy, Roughead and Gunston for a spot and maybe tempted to move else where for a game. If we do end up picking up a forward we would want him to start reaching his peak at 4-5 years not 2-3.

I know what you mean, but I don't buy it.

I think you feel this way because of Dowler, Thorp and Lisle. Correct me if I'm wrong. They weren't good enough at the end of the day.

If we picked up someone as talented as Darling, he would play. We would find a way to fit him in, whether we play one less ruckman, one less defender or one less runner.

 

[Watsclarkosmob]

I know what you mean, but I don't buy it.

I think you feel this way because of Dowler, Thorp and Lisle. Correct me if I'm wrong. They weren't good enough at the end of the day.

If we picked up someone as talented as Darling, he would play. We would find a way to fit him in, whether we play one less ruckman, one less defender or one less runner.

Not thinking about past mistakes, we could work with a forward who may take a little longer to develop as we don't need a forward right now but we need to start developing one. We need the runners, we need the defenders and in my eyes we need to find room for another ruckman as I don't want Roughead rucking anymore.

Guess we'll find out in three days time....anyone head to the Gold Coast for the draft? Lord Mud you're down that way, you going to pop in for a look? I'd be tempted to take the day off work and head down if we had some decent picks but not heading down for the rubbish picks we have.

 

[Agent Smith]

There's method to the madness....his imperfections will delay his development slightly and mean when we need him he should be right to go as he would be fourth inline behind Buddy, Roughead and Gunston...if we picked up a talented kid in the Jack Darling mould who was able to step up to AFL leave straight away he would be fighting Buddy, Roughead and Gunston for a spot and maybe tempted to move else where for a game. If we do end up picking up a forward we would want him to start reaching his peak at 4-5 years not 2-3.

Josh Kennedy syndrome. Let's not change our philosophy of getting the best players available and developing them as well as we can just because of one trade that we seemingly didn't get the greatest value from. I do get where you're coming from. Shit happens, and hopefully karma evens the ledger (perhaps we could discover a superstar at pick 66 that Sydney was going to recruit at pick 67 or something?).

 

[WWSD]

2008 National Draft: Shane Savage Round 5 pick 75
2010 National Draft: Paul Puopolo Round 4 pick 66

Both Savage and Puopolo played in the Grand Final. My point is, there are still some good players that slip threw the draft and there is still a good chance that we might be able to land a decent player whether that's from our pick 68 or 72.