List Mgmt. Trading of Senior Players

[KermitJagger]

Can Goldy be both broken at North, but potential A Grader for us, at the same time?

Schrodinger's Goldy?

Too old to be playing roulette on.

 

[Pessimistic]

when did 28 become old? plenty of those in the lasts few premiers

 

[MacMace]

when did 28 become old? plenty of those in the lasts few premiers

We need to focus on players under 24. Unless an absolute star becomes available who may be around 26. We need to quickly lower the age profile of our list, adding a 28 year old would just compound our problems re an aging list.

 

[Pessimistic]

We need to focus on players under 24. Unless an absolute star becomes available who may be around 26. We need to quickly lower the age profile of our list, adding a 28 year old would just compound our problems re an aging list.

More in response to prematurely saying existing 28 year olds don't fit in the plans.

President Jeff just wrote to me saying we should be winning a flag in the next two years

 

[MacMace]

More in response to prematurely saying existing 28 year olds don't fit in the plans.

President Jeff just wrote to me saying we should be winning a flag in the next two years

What a wise man!

My main concern re older players isn't necessarily their ability to perform (acknowledging that some extend their careers better than others), but rather how quickly the window seems to close when they go from having some trade value to no trade value.

It seems that you can receive a reasonable return for a 28 year old, but once a player hits 30 things change and you can only trade for struggling players from other clubs or receive very late draft picks (gambling on underrated youth). It's crazy because someone like Silk would have been a prized recruit for any club at 30.

 

[Fetnarr]

What a wise man!

My main concern re older players isn't necessarily their ability to perform (acknowledging that some extend their careers better than others), but rather how quickly the window seems to close when they go from having some trade value to no trade value.

It seems that you can receive a reasonable return for a 28 year old, but once a player hits 30 things change and you can only trade for struggling players from other clubs or receive very late draft picks (gambling on underrated youth). It's crazy because someone like Silk would have been a prized recruit for any club at 30.

That's only true if you believe the hubris posted on big footy!

 

[MacMace]

That's only true if you believe the hubris posted on big footy!

There aren't many examples of decent trades (even less for us) post 30. Please feel free prove me wrong.

On SM-G900I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Noneedforaname]

Would only suggest Goldy as a stop gap, IF we could get a good deal on McEvoy - GWS player. It's not us topping up for a crack next year, the future is Pitt and Cegs. Goldy, even broken, could carry us through to that point.
It may mean we could hang onto our real A graders in Gunners and Breust. They are two important pieces I think we should try and keep. Gunners particularly.

 

[flinchfree]

Would only suggest Goldy as a stop gap, IF we could get a good deal on McEvoy - GWS player. ...............

Think having an effective, read that again, effective ruckman, is a huge deal in footy.
I feel like the penny only just dropped for Big Boy last year, would really prefer we not let him leave when he might go from strength to strength.
The other players you've mentioned, though better talents, could be replaced with different personel and changed game plan, though I'd fight losing both in the same year....

 

[PhatHQ]

Big trade with older players...

GC need a big overhaul of the list & culture.

Throwing up Gunston & Smith for pick 2 & 19 might be a stretch but if something like that was possible I would jump at it.
Considering our players & the age demographic we could potentially hit this draft not unlike 2001.

I like Gunners a lot! Smith... meh.

For the right deal all of the 26+ aged players should be on offer to get into this years & next years draft. Pick a couple of ripper deals, strike while the iron was hot & move on.

But the leadership...???

Guys like Birch, BB, Cyril, Rough, Shiels can cover with young guys like Jags, Mitchell, Burton, Hardwick, Howe all waiting in the wings as the replacement leaders anyway.
In 2 years the next gen guys will be leading the charge & I will presume that they will start their own cultural change this preseason & I think that it would be expected from the coaching staff anyway.

It's not about short changing the clubs best players but securing sustained success.
If there was a chance that we can replicate 2012-13-14-15 to start all over again by trading a couple of stars & older players now & next season then that is a no brainer!

No player is greater than the club & football is about Premierships... if we are knocking on that door more than any other team that has to be a good thing rather than being a one hit wonder & falling away for another rebuild.
Hawthorn are proven to run against the grain when it comes to list management & I sincerely hope that it continues if it means September is relevant every season.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Big trade with older players...

GC need a big overhaul of the list & culture.

Throwing up Gunston & Smith for pick 2 & 19 might be a stretch but if something like that was possible I would jump at it.
Considering our players & the age demographic we could potentially hit this draft not unlike 2001.

I like Gunners a lot! Smith... meh.

For the right deal all of the 26+ aged players should be on offer to get into this years & next years draft. Pick a couple of ripper deals, strike while the iron was hot & move on.

But the leadership...???

Guys like Birch, BB, Cyril, Rough, Shiels can cover with young guys like Jags, Mitchell, Burton, Hardwick, Howe all waiting in the wings as the replacement leaders anyway.
In 2 years the next gen guys will be leading the charge & I will presume that they will start their own cultural change this preseason & I think that it would be expected from the coaching staff anyway.

It's not about short changing the clubs best players but securing sustained success.
If there was a chance that we can replicate 2012-13-14-15 to start all over again by trading a couple of stars & older players now & next season then that is a no brainer!

No player is greater than the club & football is about Premierships... if we are knocking on that door more than any other team that has to be a good thing rather than being a one hit wonder & falling away for another rebuild.
Hawthorn are proven to run against the grain when it comes to list management & I sincerely hope that it continues if it means September is relevant every season.

The chances of that are next to nothing, getting Buddy and Rough in the one draft ? Getting the next Hodge, Mitchell or Burgoyne ? Gunston is only 25 and proven quality, we'd wanna make sure we nailed that draft selection I tell you.

 

[Pessimistic]

Of all the so called 'older' players I'd be willing to bet Smith will be the most resilient going forward. A mature recruit whos had less AFL wear and tear than most and has a very youthful appearance
Having said that, speed is often the first thing to go with age

 

[Holy Rioli]

Of all the so called 'older' players I'd be willing to bet Smith will be the most resilient going forward. A mature recruit whos had less AFL wear and tear than most and has a very youthful appearance
Having said that, speed is often the first thing to go with age

Does anyone know how old the current world 100m champion is?

I'll give you a hint, he's older than Shaun Burgoyne.

 

[perrdan09]

Big trade with older players...

GC need a big overhaul of the list & culture.

Throwing up Gunston & Smith for pick 2 & 19 might be a stretch but if something like that was possible I would jump at it.
Considering our players & the age demographic we could potentially hit this draft not unlike 2001.

I like Gunners a lot! Smith... meh.

For the right deal all of the 26+ aged players should be on offer to get into this years & next years draft. Pick a couple of ripper deals, strike while the iron was hot & move on.

But the leadership...???

Guys like Birch, BB, Cyril, Rough, Shiels can cover with young guys like Jags, Mitchell, Burton, Hardwick, Howe all waiting in the wings as the replacement leaders anyway.
In 2 years the next gen guys will be leading the charge & I will presume that they will start their own cultural change this preseason & I think that it would be expected from the coaching staff anyway.

It's not about short changing the clubs best players but securing sustained success.
If there was a chance that we can replicate 2012-13-14-15 to start all over again by trading a couple of stars & older players now & next season then that is a no brainer!

No player is greater than the club & football is about Premierships... if we are knocking on that door more than any other team that has to be a good thing rather than being a one hit wonder & falling away for another rebuild.
Hawthorn are proven to run against the grain when it comes to list management & I sincerely hope that it continues if it means September is relevant every season.

I actually respectfully don't think this is the path we should go with. I see what you are saying, but i think we have a win now list. I think we are a couple midfielders away from being really really competitive (in contention). Our forward line just needs more supply, and faster ball movement into it. At the start of the year our mids got chopped up and the forwards had zero supply, they need the ball down there, with some decent service to kick goals. We also had zero rebound of half back... As the year went on, both those areas improved and so did the results and our play..

That is why i am so big on Aaron Hall, i think he provides really great run and carry, and living on the coast i see a lot of their games. I think we have a great list demographic with a lot of players in their mid 20s, most play until 30 or a bit past. I think we should be going for it now, and the way we really developed some of our youngsters late in the year holds us in good stead for the now, and, down the track.

Maybe too much of an optimist/bias, just my 2 cents, i know most won't agree

 

[Pessimistic]

I actually respectfully don't think this is the path we should go with. I see what you are saying, but i think we have a win now list. I think we are a couple midfielders away from being really really competitive (in contention). Our forward line just needs more supply, and faster ball movement into it. At the start of the year our mids got chopped up and the forwards had zero supply, they need the ball down there, with some decent service to kick goals. We also had zero rebound of half back... As the year went on, both those areas improved and so did the results and our play..

That is why i am so big on Aaron Hall, i think he provides really great run and carry, and living on the coast i see a lot of their games. I think we have a great list demographic with a lot of players in their mid 20s, most play until 30 or a bit past. I think we should be going for it now, and the way we really developed some of our youngsters late in the year holds us in good stead for the now, and, down the track.

Maybe too much of an optimist/bias, just my 2 cents, i know most won't agree

Getting just one more year out of a few older players saves recruiting developing a young player, in terms of draft picks used.

I see a recent increase in the total number of players after expansion (12.5% more) but the total yearly intake via drafts appears to have settled and hardly changed. Players must be playing longer overall

 

[PhatHQ]

The chances of that are next to nothing, getting Buddy and Rough in the one draft ? Getting the next Hodge, Mitchell or Burgoyne ? Gunston is only 25 and proven quality, we'd wanna make sure we nailed that draft selection I tell you.

Thought a change up was in order rather than Breust all the time

I actually respectfully don't think this is the path we should go with. I see what you are saying, but i think we have a win now list. I think we are a couple midfielders away from being really really competitive (in contention). Our forward line just needs more supply, and faster ball movement into it. At the start of the year our mids got chopped up and the forwards had zero supply, they need the ball down there, with some decent service to kick goals. We also had zero rebound of half back... As the year went on, both those areas improved and so did the results and our play..

That is why i am so big on Aaron Hall, i think he provides really great run and carry, and living on the coast i see a lot of their games. I think we have a great list demographic with a lot of players in their mid 20s, most play until 30 or a bit past. I think we should be going for it now, and the way we really developed some of our youngsters late in the year holds us in good stead for the now, and, down the track.

Maybe too much of an optimist/bias, just my 2 cents, i know most won't agree

If something similar could be done without Gunston I would prefer that every day

 

[Noneedforaname]

Think having an effective, read that again, effective ruckman, is a huge deal in footy.
I feel like the penny only just dropped for Big Boy last year, would really prefer we not let him leave when he might go from strength to strength.
The other players you've mentioned, though better talents, could be replaced with different personel and changed game plan, though I'd fight losing both in the same year....

Not disputing his effectiveness. Personal best season from him, and best Hawk ruck in season since Spider won(?) the PCM. That puts a premium on his value to GWS and gives us massive leverage if they want him. Best return of value for a playe, with as little disruption as possible to the rest of the playing list.
Unless of course we are going for the cup next year and need him ourselves, and the other rucks aren't going to be able to cover adequately?
I think replacing the run of Omith, or the versatility and leadership of Gunners would be the tougher task, a may not net the dividends we could maybe score with BB, IF GWS were desperate enough.

Of all the players, I've always though Gunners would have the most to deliver us long term. Given his family background, and mature approach to the game, I think he has more to offer the club after his playing days are over. For that additional reason I'd be inclined to try and keep over some of the others.
On the other hand, there's a reason he wasnt given more leadership responsibility. And that may be because we expected/ planned for his eventual moving on?

That is why i am so big on Aaron Hall, i think he provides really great run and carry.

Love watching when he's on, and he's really been on since its clicked for him.
Wondering how he would feel towards GC with th Gaz drama, and whether he might be a little disgruntled himself? Would be very handy.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Of all the so called 'older' players I'd be willing to bet Smith will be the most resilient going forward. A mature recruit whos had less AFL wear and tear than most and has a very youthful appearance
Having said that, speed is often the first thing to go with age

Guys that glide like Smith hold onto the pace for longer, because their movement is so good it doesn't produce much wear and tear. There are super smooth marathon runners getting about in their 70s (well, at least in one case that I know of).

Running form is crazy important for longevity. The smoother the mover, the longer things can continue.

Hodge's extended career when he looked absolutely cooked in 2012 was after consulting a movement specialist, who helped him on that front.

 

[theonico]

If Mumford is looking as cooked as he is, why not more noise about Big Boy to GWS?

We're holding a real ace, and for once have ruck options in the wings to cover.

McEvoy to Gws for a player, and we pick up a broken Goldy from North if people think we need a potential a grader again.

why on earth would you want Goldstein over Big Boy???