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Training report for 07/01/10

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The players that I believe need to be in fringe territory come mid-season for us to be taking steps forward are Stevens, Doughty and Reilly. Remember the thing about replacing good players with better ones. Stevens is versatile and has fought hard to get where he is, but we have exceptional defenders in Bock and Rutten, and our forward line is no longer going to need the switch-up imo. We'll have Davis developing and assuming Hentschel can hit the ground running, he offers more attacking flair and can slide back. Otten's absence might, MIGHT, create a window for Stevens to last a little longer particularly if/when Davis runs out of puff, but Young will have a say in this too.

Doughty is chalk and cheese compared to the timid player we had running around years back, but we can't sit and pretend that he is a footballer of genuine talent. The image I can't get out of my head since the end of our 09 campaign is him getting wrapped up by Ben Johnson. It was symbolic; while Mackay, Tippett and Vince were shining lights under pressure, our hard-working but modestly talented types were not.

Reilly has either under-delivered or simply isn't all that talented in the first place, maybe a touch of both. When the pace is frenetic Reilly is slow to react and the skills, usually so polished, go out the window. There have been a few exceptions but we need those to become the norm. He needs to prove himself quickly and decisively this year, and that means staying on the park to give himself that chance too.

Aggressive list and selection management is a big part of winning a premiership. You may not agree with my opinions on these players specifically, but harsh decisions will be made either way. These just happen to be blokes that I think will be in the firing line.
 
Burton, being 185cm is not a tall although we have played him as a tall when we didn't have any to speak of. From the way the club is talking about Hentschel I would think he has the CHF position covered for a few weeks at least. Bird will play but not as a tall.
However, your thinking still stands. If we go with 3 tall forwards (Tippett, Hentschel, Walker?) and 3 tall backs (Truck, Bock, Stevens?) with Maric a certain starter in the ruck, we'll have Griffin, Sellar, SMack, Moran to fit into 2 spots (1 as 2nd ruck and the other as a swing man off the bench. No I haven't forgotten Davis - he won't be a tall KPP but a running halfback in the same role as Otten.
So, for the NAB Cup it might look a little like this:

B: JOHNCOCK RUTTEN STEVENS
HB: DAVIS BOCK GOODWIN
C: MACKAY THOMPSON REILLY
HF: KNIGHTS HENTSCHEL PORPLYZIA
F: BURTON TIPPETT WALKER

R: MARIC VINCE EDWARDS

I/Bench: SYMES DANGERFIELD DOUGHTY SLOANE SELLAR MCKERNAN

Emergency (from): PETRENKO COOK DOUGLAS GRIFFIN ARMSTRONG
REST: MCLEOD vanBERLO

This is probably getting a fair way from a training report, but.

I'm not sure if your thoughts are for the NAB Cup only or the season as well but anyway, that's way too tall for me mate. We all know birdman has defied his height all his career. He is primarily a marking forward and is perfectly suited to the 3rd tall role IMO. Alongside two true key-forwards in Tippa and Tex that shouldn't be a problem. That forward would be too cluttered unless Trent plays soley as a lead-up CHF and hardly enters the 50. Robert Murphy style. That wouldn't be a terrible idea but obviously it's one less spot for a runner.

The backline is where I really have an issue. I really can't see that working with Stevo in there as well as Davis. You say Davis takes Otto's role but esentially Stevens is the one you have given that spot to. As I said somewhere else, very few teams run with 3 true key forwards now, Stevo would be matched up against some much quicker and more agile players every game, meanwhile Davis' defensive ability is wasted. As much as I rate Davis, he's not getting a spot as a runner right now, if we pick Stevens as the third-tall then there are far better options availale as sweepers. To me, we really need to give Davis a chance to prove himself on tough assignments in the NAB. Give him Bocky's spot while he rests.

And then two rucks on the bench??? I'm assuming that's definitely only for the NAB, where we do have to trial the young rucks/talls and use the extended bench. Please say that's only for the NAB!

Since we're posting teams, I won't do one for the NAB because it'd change pretty heavily every week but here's my regular season setup:

F: B.Burton, K.Tippett, J.Petrenko
HF: C.Knights, T.Walker, S.Goodwin
C: B.Reilly, S.Thompson, D.Mackay
HB: M.Doughty, N.Bock, A.McLeod
B: G.Johncock, B.Rutten, P.Davis
R: I.Maric, B.Vince, J.Porplyzia
B: Ruck, P.Dangerfield, T.Edwards, N.van Berlo
EMG: S.Stevens, Ruck, B.Symes

God that's beautiful!

Sorry if I rambled on a bit haha. I better get to bed, got training tomorrow!
 

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At full strength I would still have him as the last man picked - and he would miss out if Otten weren't injured. That said, he's still the 23rd ranked player in our squad (as far as I'm concerned) and injuries will mean that he'll continue to play every game for which he is available.
 
With injuries he's in the team pretty much every week, but this is our best 22 apart from Otten. Who would you take out?
 
With injuries he's in the team pretty much every week, but this is our best 22 apart from Otten. Who would you take out?
Reilly. Symes was clearly ahead of him in the pecking order for pretty much all of 2009, no reason to see why this should change in 2010.
 
I've got Pup in as a pure SF which is what I think we need if Porsche is to spend more time in the middle.

And I'll take Radar's elite disposal over Symes any day. He was pretty solid in the 2nd half of 09. I'm not even a Symes-hater, of which there seem to be many on here, but I'd certainly take Reilly.
 
I've got Pup in as a pure SF which is what I think we need if Porsche is to spend more time in the middle.

And I'll take Radar's elite disposal over Symes any day. He was pretty solid in the 2nd half of 09. I'm not even a Symes-hater, of which there seem to be many on here, but I'd certainly take Reilly.
I have no great love for Symes' dodgy disposals either, but the realist in me sees that the club clearly rates him well ahead of Reilly at this point in time.

As posted in another thread this morning, here's my shot at our best 22:
It's incredibly difficult right now to predict who our best 22 will be - and who's next on the pecking order once we start losing players to the inevitable injuries.

The best 22* as I see it:
FB: Davis Rutten Johncock
HB: Goodwin Bock McLeod
C: Vince Thompson Mackay
HF: Knights Hentschel Symes
FF: Burton Tippett Porplyzia
R: Moran Dangerfield Edwards
Int: Maric van Berlo Stevens Doughty

Emerg: Reilly, Petrenko, McKernan

* excluding Otten, who we already know will miss the entire 2010 season through injury.

Relative to the team which played Collingwood in the 2009 SF:
IN: van Berlo, Bock, Davis, Moran
OUT: Reilly (omit), Shirley (delisted), Otten (injured), Sellar (omit)

Right now I just don't see how we can squeeze McKernan & Walker into the side, though I would love to see both of them play 22+ games this year. Both would need to push past Burton and/or Hentshel during the pre-season (not beyond the realms of possibility). Then there's Rory Sloane and Myke Cook and....

The last player selected for me was Brad Symes, but he's still well ahead of Reilly & Petrenko in the pecking order. I've put him on the HFF, but the truth is that he'd be playing more as a midfielder. Knights on the other flank was easy, but identifying the player for the 2nd flank was the hardest selection in the entire team.
 
I'm not sure if your thoughts are for the NAB Cup only or the season as well but anyway, that's way too tall for me mate. We all know birdman has defied his height all his career. He is primarily a marking forward and is perfectly suited to the 3rd tall role IMO. Alongside two true key-forwards in Tippa and Tex that shouldn't be a problem. That forward would be too cluttered unless Trent plays soley as a lead-up CHF and hardly enters the 50. Robert Murphy style. That wouldn't be a terrible idea but obviously it's one less spot for a runner.

The backline is where I really have an issue. I really can't see that working with Stevo in there as well as Davis. You say Davis takes Otto's role but esentially Stevens is the one you have given that spot to. As I said somewhere else, very few teams run with 3 true key forwards now, Stevo would be matched up against some much quicker and more agile players every game, meanwhile Davis' defensive ability is wasted. As much as I rate Davis, he's not getting a spot as a runner right now, if we pick Stevens as the third-tall then there are far better options availale as sweepers. To me, we really need to give Davis a chance to prove himself on tough assignments in the NAB. Give him Bocky's spot while he rests.

And then two rucks on the bench??? I'm assuming that's definitely only for the NAB, where we do have to trial the young rucks/talls and use the extended bench. Please say that's only for the NAB!

Since we're posting teams, I won't do one for the NAB because it'd change pretty heavily every week but here's my regular season setup:

F: B.Burton, K.Tippett, J.Petrenko
HF: C.Knights, T.Walker, S.Goodwin
C: B.Reilly, S.Thompson, D.Mackay
HB: M.Doughty, N.Bock, A.McLeod
B: G.Johncock, B.Rutten, P.Davis
R: I.Maric, B.Vince, J.Porplyzia
B: Ruck, P.Dangerfield, T.Edwards, N.van Berlo
EMG: S.Stevens, Ruck, B.Symes

God that's beautiful!

Sorry if I rambled on a bit haha. I better get to bed, got training tomorrow!

I was talking about the NAB (stated just b4 the team listing), hence 6 on the bench with VB and Macca resting.

The primary purpose for me in placing players on the field was to better assess who would fit into the team. In this thread and others there have been a lot of statements about this player should be in, this one should be in too, oh and while we're at it why not add this newie. But when you actually look at the list and who can play which role, it is a lot harder. Your arguments are excellent (particularly for 1.30 am) and you've backed it up with placement on the field. That's when you really have to make a choice. My only concern is that it does seem to take away from the initial purpose of this thread. Apologies for that.

I don't have issues with the 3 tall forwards because of the way rotations are managed now as well as the roles of the forwards means that several of them are playing well up the field anyway. EG, Knighter plays a lot on the wing then back into the 50 then across the other side then up the wing etc because his capacity to keep explosively running is so elite and he has a prodigious kick for goals. Burton does similar but closer to goal. Hentschel may play some forward and some back. All of them at some stage will rotate off the bench and play multiple roles in the one game.

The 2 "Rucks" on the bench are really 1 ruck and 1 switch player (NAB only) because we have so many excellent talls that we need to see who can deliver what, as early as poss.

The backline, on reflection, is probably too tall. So take Stevens out (just to rest him while the cup is on) and replace him with Davis in the back pocket and then put Dangerfield on the HBF as the sweeper/runner. Symes is still not training with the main group so take him off the emergencies and put him in the injured list. Replace with Douglas or Petrenko or Cook.

Round 1 of the regular season will depend on performances in the NAB so I aint goin' there just yet.
 

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The games Symes missed were R1-2 and R5-6. Fairly sure the first two games were missed due to his broken arms/wrists after his incident during the pre-season. I believe he was available, but was still working on gaining match fitness in the SANFL after missing a fair portion of the pre-season. I'm still trying to work out (going through the archives) why Symes missed out the second time around.

Reilly also missed 4 games, in the middle of the season - rounds 10 & 11 and 13 & 14. One of these block was caused by a hamstring injury. From memory, the other was omission due to lack of form.

In the latter half of the season, Reilly was perpetually the last man selected. If VB had returned at any stage from his back injury, then Reilly would have been watching from the sidelines.

EDIT: Symes 2nd block of missed games was the result of suffering a broken nose at training.
 
you may be right but how do you know that Reilly was perpetually the last man picked?
OK, I don't have any hard evidence to back up that assertion. It was my perception and (I presume) those of the majority of the board members that this was the case, particularly in the 2nd half of the season.
 
Yes Burton will be in team from rnd 1 and poster right not a tall forward but thats the problem he wants to play like one .
Jumping all over Tippett and other tall forward bring numbers in to contest .
He has the speed etc to open up forward with strong leads etc but all seems intent on is the Mark of year trophy.
Tippett is our trump card and if Burton doesnt give him space then send him to the Eagles. We must give Walker a solid opportunity as well and I can see Hentschell going into Defence.
We still are undersized in ruck unless Griffin finds something and Sellar not the answer and can Moran find the form he wasin until hurt.
Mckernan could be the smoky here , but we really need Maric to take another step forward.
 
OK, I don't have any hard evidence to back up that assertion. It was my perception and (I presume) those of the majority of the board members that this was the case, particularly in the 2nd half of the season.

As I say, you may be right but we (especially mods :eek:) should try to be objective as groupthink has a way of taking over

IMO once Goody and Macca retire, Reilly's run and disposal off half back will become more important

Happy New Year by the way
 
I was talking about the NAB (stated just b4 the team listing), hence 6 on the bench with VB and Macca resting.

Round 1 of the regular season will depend on performances in the NAB so I aint goin' there just yet.

Ok. Yeah I saw that it was for the NAB Cup, just wasn't sure if it was ONLY the NAB or you had the same ideas for rd.1. All good :thumbsu:.
 

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The games Symes missed were R1-2 and R5-6. Fairly sure the first two games were missed due to his broken arms/wrists after his incident during the pre-season. I believe he was available, but was still working on gaining match fitness in the SANFL after missing a fair portion of the pre-season. I'm still trying to work out (going through the archives) why Symes missed out the second time around.

Reilly also missed 4 games, in the middle of the season - rounds 10 & 11 and 13 & 14. One of these block was caused by a hamstring injury. From memory, the other was omission due to lack of form.

In the latter half of the season, Reilly was perpetually the last man selected. If VB had returned at any stage from his back injury, then Reilly would have been watching from the sidelines.

EDIT: Symes 2nd block of missed games was the result of suffering a broken nose at training.


Think you need to check back on this Vader, Radar was one of our top mids in the 2nd half of 09. These are only stats, I know, but I think we all know how consistently good his disposal is:

Rd.15: 23pos (10+13), 7 tackles.
Rd.16: 24pos (10+14), 5 marks, 5 tackles
Rd.17: 32pos (17+15), 9 marks, 2 tackles, 6 I50s
Rd.18: 29pos (19+10), 6 marks, 4 tackles, 1 goal, 10 I50s
Rd.19: 21pos (16+5), 9 marks, 6 I50s
Rd.20: 23pos (14+9), 6 marks, 6 tackles
Rd.21: 23pos (10+13), 5 tackles
Rd.22: Injured? 7 touches.
Essendon Final: 18pos (14+4), 8 marks, 3 tackles
Collingwood Final: 18pos (9+9), 2 tackles

Pretty impressive. (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-adelaide-crows--brent-reilly)

Symes didn't disgrace himself by any means (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-adelaide-crows--brad-symes) but Radar was fantastic in the 2nd half.
 

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