Transgender

[Gralin]

Discussion continuing in Part 2 found here

Transgender - Part 2

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Gough]

I've seen some truly abominable defences of what happened yesterday on social media. Lines of arguing that roughly go (paraphrasing): "well even the Nazis are more concerned about children than you, so what does that say about you?"

This is where this has all been headed for a long time. Sadly, nothing done to stop it.

The anti trans movement has done everything it can to make life unlivable for trans people, you can see why it attracts like minded groups. It's worth remembering Katherine Deves was Scott Morrison's captains call for Waringah at the last election too.

 

[Gethelred]

Nazi salutes performed on steps of Victorian parliament as protesters clash over trans rights

Spring Street in Melbourne's city centre was blocked to traffic as hundreds of protesters demonstrated outside the Victorian Parliament.

www.sbs.com.au

 

[Chief]

The sheet has just slipped and they are all "it's not what it looks like!"

 

[faible]

The sheet has just slipped and they are all "it's not what it looks like!"

'misunderstood young men'

 

[Malifice]

How these cookers conflate 'Paedos' and 'trans-gender people' is ****ing sickening.

If you're really concerned about ****ing Paedos then go after uncles, family friends, teachers and Priests who are overwhelmingly the actual perpetrators of child sexual abuse.

There is literally zero evidence connecting transgender people or 'drag queen book reading' to 'increased risk of pedophilia' yet here we are.

 

[Gough]

How these cookers conflate 'Paedos' and 'trans-gender people' is ******* sickening.

If you're really concerned about ******* Paedos then go after uncles, family friends, teachers and Priests who are overwhelmingly the actual perpetrators of child sexual abuse.

There is literally zero evidence connecting transgender people or 'drag queen book reading' to 'increased risk of pedophilia' yet here we are.

The media have helped whip up hysteria too disguising their transphobia as protecting women's rights.

 

[Cap]

So are we all still just doing this for the women and children or can we now accept the anti trans movement here has morphed into something far more sinister?

They were never doing it for the women and children.

 

[Gralin]

They were never doing it for the women and children.

I think there are people in that movement that believe they are because they've been sucked in by the lies being sold to them.

But the people that created the movement, the people that fund the movement, and the far right groups that have latched onto this movement as their latest push for legitimacy don't give a shit.

 

[ShanDog]

Or maybe - and hear me out now - the Nazi's shouldn't be conflated with the "anti-trans" group.

If you genuinely believe those women would have anything to do with the knuckle draggers who rocked up to stir the pot and get some screen time, you have a warped sense of reality. But I suspect there's very few people who actually believe that, and most just want to spin it for points in the culture war.

I get it - the little rush of adrenaline you get from feeling smug and righteous is like that first hit of a cheeky smoke after quitting a few months back. But similarly, you should and do feel dirty afterwards. Should listen to that feeling. It's instructive.

 

[Chief]

If you genuinely believe those women would have anything to do with the knuckle draggers who rocked up to stir the pot and get some screen time, you have a warped sense of reality.

The problem is that their ideas overlap to a worrying extent.

Pretending the anti-trans stuff is about women's rights is just lying. They've been pumped up by the far right under these disingenuous titles.

The grifters glomming onto the anti-trans movement would readily throw up a salute if it got them a few extra bucks.

This has just dropped their possible future selves right in front of them. This is the direction they are headed if they keep rocking up to rallies with foreign far-right grifters.

 

[gouki88]

Or maybe - and hear me out now - the Nazi's shouldn't be conflated with the "anti-trans" group.

If you genuinely believe those women would have anything to do with the knuckle draggers who rocked up to stir the pot and get some screen time, you have a warped sense of reality. But I suspect there's very few people who actually believe that, and most just want to spin it for points in the culture war.

I get it - the little rush of adrenaline you get from feeling smug and righteous is like that first hit of a cheeky smoke after quitting a few months back. But similarly, you should and do feel dirty afterwards. Should listen to that feeling. It's instructive.

They're not with us! They're not with us!

Own it. They are on the same side.

 

[ShanDog]

The problem is that their ideas overlap to a worrying extent.

Pretending the anti-trans stuff is about women's rights is just lying. They've been pumped up by the far right under these disingenuous titles.

The grifters glomming onto the anti-trans movement would readily throw up a salute if it got them a few extra bucks.

This has just dropped their possible future selves right in front of them. This is the direction they are headed if they keep rocking up to rallies with foreign far-right grifters.

No, the problem is is the deliberately uncharitable treatment of the arguments and perspectives of different issue-motivated groups in order to obfuscate. That way people can denounce caricatures of their ideological enemies rather than content with their actual arguments, goals and motivations.

"The women's rights groups are in step with Nazis, and will become Nazis if they don't toe the line!" Gimme a break. Absolutely ridiculous mate. You'd be the first person to laugh at some clown who suggests that higher taxes and better redistribution of wealth was a slippery slope to Stalinist communism.

 

[gouki88]

No, the problem is is the deliberately uncharitable treatment of the arguments and perspectives of different issue-motivated groups in order to obfuscate. That way people can denounce caricatures of their ideological enemies rather than content with their actual arguments, goals and motivations.

"The women's rights groups are in step with Nazis, and will become Nazis if they don't toe the line!" Gimme a break. Absolutely ridiculous mate. You'd be the first person to laugh at some clown who suggests that higher taxes and better redistribution of wealth was a slippery slope to Stalinist communism.

What a ludicrous false equivalence. Your metaphor is very silly. More accurately, it would be suggesting that someone proposing for the eradication of landlords was a slippery slope towards Maoist communism.

Did you actually listen to the speeches given by those arseholes? It is literally just the mad ramblings of a hate-filled group, obsessed with eradicating a marginalised sect of society. And they weren't saluting.

 

[ShanDog]

What a ludicrous false equivalence. Your metaphor is very silly. More accurately, it would be suggesting that someone proposing for the eradication of landlords was a slippery slope towards Maoist communism.

Did you actually listen to the speeches given by those arseholes? It is literally just the mad ramblings of a hate-filled group, obsessed with eradicating a marginalised sect of society. And they weren't saluting.

Firstly, it's an analogy, not a metaphor. Secondly, it was supposed to be silly - that was MY point. The rest of your post is what I described above.

 

[gouki88]

Firstly, it's an analogy, not a metaphor. Secondly, it was supposed to be silly - that was MY point. The rest of your post is what I described above.

Forgive me for the mistake. I would rather confuse an analogy and a metaphor than defend nazi sympathisers as benign.

No, you don't quite get it. Your point was to be silly, except it is nothing like what is occurring in this instance. These people are bedfellows. Calling them a "women's rights group" exposes your ridiculous stance too. They do not care for women's rights, just marginalisation

 

[ShanDog]

Tell ya what Chief, this place is a lot more bearable when you can use the ignore function! Might hang around.

 

[Chief]

"The women's rights groups are in step with Nazis, and will become Nazis if they don't toe the line!" Gimme a break. Absolutely ridiculous mate. You'd be the first person to laugh at some clown who suggests that higher taxes and better redistribution of wealth was a slippery slope to Stalinist communism.

What is the objective of these far-righters?

Attack minorities. What for? Power and money.

They are drawing this crowd to the far right. Last stop: fascism.

And the other thing: These celeb-fashy people on their Aussie tours have no qualms about putting normal people at these rallies up on TV under some of the ugliest ideologies known to us. They're sucked in and now their names and faces are forever associated with this awful garbage.

Celeb-fash grabs the money and runs. Later on the can Lauren Southern it and have the public reach to clean up their image. The poor sucker from the suburbs has no such option and this stuff sticks for life.

Showing them now how people really see them is a good idea. But no doubt they'll just refuse to accept it and trash their name anyway.

I dunno. It's just sad.

 

[gouki88]

Tell ya what Chief, this place is a lot more bearable when you can use the ignore function! Might hang around.

Only able to suffer having your bigotry challenged a couple of times before going back under your rock?

 

[ShanDog]

What is the objective of these far-righters?

Attack minorities. What for? Power and money.

Are you taking about the Nazis or the women's rally people? Because if it's the latter and you're characterising them as such, then we are coming at this thing from so far apart it's almost pointless to discuss.

You're right that there's a lot sad about the state of discourse at the moment.

 

[ShanDog]

I should add to that though - I 100% agree there are grifters jumping on these movements for their own ends (money, fame etc). I also don't know a huge amount about that specific group that were involved in the incident that sparked this conversation; however, I can guarantee that people were there for genuine concerns, and much like the guilt-by-proximity we've seen for years, tarnishing anyone who has concerns with women's rights and trans issues with the same brush is just wrong.

 

[Chief]

Tell ya what Chief, this place is a lot more bearable when you can use the ignore function! Might hang around.

I actually noticed today that you still have some sort of mod powers - need to clean them up

 

[ShanDog]

I actually noticed today that you still have some sort of mod powers - need to clean them up

WAIT IS THAT YOUR PHONE RINGING IT COULD BE AN EMERGENCY BEST TO FORGET THIS CONVERSATION AND JUST MOVE ON KTHNX

 

[Chief]

the women's rally people

The international celebrity guest at the anti-trans rally.

TBH I don't even know if her backers organised and paid for it, or if she's a guest of local anti-trans groups. What's the story?

 

[Gethelred]

Only able to suffer having your bigotry challenged a couple of times before going back under your rock?

Ease down a bit.

 

[ShanDog]

The international celebrity guest at the anti-trans rally.

TBH I don't even know if her backers organised and paid for it, or if she's a guest of local anti-trans groups. What's the story?

I was only starting to look into it earlier today. Don't have any clear answers to those questions, though it does seem like the main guest is someone who rose to fame because she posted things on twitter (or something) that landed her in trouble with the law in the UK. She leaned into it and is now one of the faces of "anti-trans" campaigners. I'm not really in those circles of discussion online so don't know much beyond that, and it's just Wikipedia.