Injury Trent West - knee arthroscope

[S for September]

I dont understand why people want Walker to be a ruckman, at the moment hes still too small height and size wise to do it. He's a either a CHF or CHB and thats it. Bathie is a monster in comparison, he is the only one who could wrestle with an opposition ruckman and give a contest

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Sheringham was and is a rookie, so that wouldn't have solved the problem. So we delist poor Cowan and keep Stephenson, as the clear #5, who can only really play effectively as the #1 ruckman in an AFL side. Five AFL-experienced ruckmen on the list. So when we don't suffer any significant injuries, Stephenson doesn't get a game (and is promptly delisted) and people wonder why the hell we kept a 30 year old fifth ruckman on the list, while ditching a young player who had shown a fair bit and had been cruelled by injury, what then? What if it was Selwood, Kelly, Corey and Stringer who were all injured? If Lonergan, Taylor and Rivers go down at the same time this year, I'm guessing people will be saying that the footy department should have had the foresight to hang on to Gillies.

Are you suggesting that the club did not look into the question of our ruck stocks sufficiently in the offseason? They would have spent weeks looking at it from every possible angle. Obviously they were supremely confident that West and Vardy would not have any more injury concerns and sufficiently confident that McIntosh and Simpson would be right for the season as well. West and Vardy might still be right for Round 1 and if one gets up and McIntosh and/or the other one is right for Round 2, there's really no harm done. Can you tell me why West was an injury concern heading into the season, but Orren, despite breaking down (with about a quarter of the workload in the AFL) would have been perfect cover? Who's to say he doesn't get injured as well?

Whoa MC - settle !!
Just venturing an opinion , just like you are.
I would have kept Orren for the reasons I have mentioned and yes there would have been a casualty.
I also believe the Club erred on this occasion but having said that it may be that they see Bathie and Blicavs as options. I certainly like what I saw from Blicavs over here so maybe the Club knows best

In relation to your defender argument you would have to be concered if Lonergan had a disc fused and had limited game time after it , Taylor was coming off a knee op and hadn't trained properly and Rivers had a dodgy hip..........

 

[FredLeDeux]

oh no he will still dispute it
simply fact.

I dispute that. I think.

 

[you pick one]

So back on topic how long does it take for a new leg to grow back after a arthroscope?

 

[dazbroncos]

So back on topic how long does it take for a new leg to grow back after a arthroscope?

with or without peptides?

too soon?

Go Catters

 

[FredLeDeux]

Thanks,there's your answer Fred.

Yeah, that makes a difference, it means they would have accepted a less optimistic guesstimate.

 

[vinum coupe]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
There is something about Walker I like. But if he plays in the ruck he will look like a cardboard cutout of Kingsley. Sorry. Yep he tackles. Every footballer does, but he doesn't like the heavy stuff. Yet !

Think about it guys. Seriously.

We all talk about letting kids bulk up, we give them a couple of years.
We all talk about how long it takes for big guys to have influence in the middle. And that's because they need bulk.

But a hell of a lot more bulk.

If players like Bathie, Walker, or Blicavs ruck over the first 3 weeks we are ****ed.
Even if Vardy rucks as a primary ruck we are in massive trouble.

I know people think it was a stir. But the only serious bodies we have outside of Hmac, Simpson, and West is Hawkins and Pods.

If nothing changes on the injury front Hawkins will have to play there at some stage. Sorry !
Unless of course you like being on the bottom for a few weeks.

 

[SleazySimon]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
There is something about Walker I like. But if he plays in the ruck he will look like a cardboard cutout of Kingsley. Sorry. Yep he tackles. Every footballer does, but he doesn't like the heavy stuff. Yet !

Think about it guys. Seriously.

We all talk about letting kids bulk up, we give them a couple of years.
We all talk about how long it takes for big guys to have influence in the middle. And that's because they need bulk.

But a hell of a lot more bulk.

If players like Bathie, Walker, or Blicavs ruck over the first 3 weeks we are screwed.
Even if Vardy rucks as a primary ruck we are in massive trouble.

I know people think it was a stir. But the only serious bodies we have outside of Hmac, Simpson, and West is Hawkins and Pods.

If nothing changes on the injury front Hawkins will have to play there at some stage. Sorry !
Unless of course you like being on the bottom for a few weeks.

Hawkins ruck work is ordinary

 

[vinum coupe]

Completely agree.
He'd beat the other 3 though (which is scary) and wouldn't get smashed from body contact over the course of 3 games or so.

 

[you pick one]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
There is something about Walker I like. But if he plays in the ruck he will look like a cardboard cutout of Kingsley. Sorry. Yep he tackles. Every footballer does, but he doesn't like the heavy stuff. Yet !

Think about it guys. Seriously.

We all talk about letting kids bulk up, we give them a couple of years.
We all talk about how long it takes for big guys to have influence in the middle. And that's because they need bulk.

But a hell of a lot more bulk.

If players like Bathie, Walker, or Blicavs ruck over the first 3 weeks we are screwed.
Even if Vardy rucks as a primary ruck we are in massive trouble.

I know people think it was a stir. But the only serious bodies we have outside of Hmac, Simpson, and West is Hawkins and Pods.

If nothing changes on the injury front Hawkins will have to play there at some stage. Sorry !
Unless of course you like being on the bottom for a few weeks.

Not in front of the children vinum.

 

[S for September]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
There is something about Walker I like. But if he plays in the ruck he will look like a cardboard cutout of Kingsley. Sorry. Yep he tackles. Every footballer does, but he doesn't like the heavy stuff. Yet !

Think about it guys. Seriously.

We all talk about letting kids bulk up, we give them a couple of years.
We all talk about how long it takes for big guys to have influence in the middle. And that's because they need bulk.

But a hell of a lot more bulk.

If players like Bathie, Walker, or Blicavs ruck over the first 3 weeks we are screwed.
Even if Vardy rucks as a primary ruck we are in massive trouble.

I know people think it was a stir. But the only serious bodies we have outside of Hmac, Simpson, and West is Hawkins and Pods.

If nothing changes on the injury front Hawkins will have to play there at some stage. Sorry !
Unless of course you like being on the bottom for a few weeks.

Bathie is 26, 102kg at 198cm. He has bulk, im not sure how much bigger he would need to get...

Ottens was 106kg at 202cm as a comparison, quite similar weight for height comparison between the two.

 

[SleazySimon]

Completely agree.
He'd beat the other 3 though (which is scary) and wouldn't get smashed from body contact over the course of 3 games or so.

Could pinch hit maybe.
But def not no1 ruck.

 

[SleazySimon]

Still think people are overdoing walker a little bit. Did anyone not watch the vfl grand final by any chance?
Playing 7 senior games does not put him ahead of bathie.
Horlin smith was BOG in a game where there were so many players of AFL experience.

 

[S for September]

but rucking isn't just about jumping and tapping it out, they need to be able to play the game in the first place and really, only Walker has shown he has that ability.
Bathie has a great chance to show what he's got this week but am not confident, he will struggle around the ground just like Blicavs did.
They are project players who have grown up playing a completely different sport and find themselves up against 100-150 gamers in their prime.

As long as he creates a good contest in the ruck and can follow up on the ground I will be happy. Walker would get smashed in the ruck, thats the more important thing with our current situation.

 

[Seeds]

Hope the people in this thread who are using the argument that the decision on Orren was right simply because the MC made the decision have never once in their life question the MC because if you have you are a hypocrite.

 

[Seeds]

Do we really want to get into another 'Blake vs every ruckman who has ever played for Geelong' shitfight? I don't think so.

And I don't want to talk Stephenson down, because he gave us good service and he has a big heart, but if he was really that good, he would have been offered a senior spot with an AFL club a lot earlier. He was under everyone's noses, dominating the VFL at North Ballarat, for a good five years. As it stands, he probably only gets a game at Richmond if Maric is out of the side and he is unlikely to get to 20 games in his career, let alone play in a premiership side.

Hey I didn't bring up the topic of clubs can't win premierships with ordinary rucks.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Hope the people in this thread who are using the argument that the decision on Orren was right simply because the MC made the decision have never once in their life question the MC because if you have you are a hypocrite.

Did someone use that argument?

 

[Seeds]

Did someone use that argument?

yep

 

[FredLeDeux]

yep

OK, I'll take your word for it, I missed it.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Hope the people in this thread who are using the argument that the decision on Orren was right simply because the MC made the decision have never once in their life question the MC because if you have you are a hypocrite.

The match committee decisions that are usually questioned are at the selection table, something they usually have about five days to make, if not less (if core players are still sore a couple of days after the game). The decision we are talking about is Geelong's ruck situation, which was an issue all year in 2012 and the MC would have spent weeks (if not months) reviewing. It would have also involved a physical assessment of McIntosh and the four incumbents and their ability to stand up to the rigors of an AFL season. So it's not really the same thing.

Every one of Geelong's ruckmen was healthy at the start of pre-season. By mid-February, after two scratch matches, all of them are apparently injured. I say 'apparently' because this article on Vardy from less than two weeks ago certainly doesn't suggest he is injured in any way.

http://www.geelongcats.com.au/news/2013-02-15/vardy-vanquishes-demons

Since then Vardy has continued to train well during the preseason and is looking really good, despite experiencing a little bit of pain at the beginning, which went away the following week after and hasn’t returned.

"My body is feeling really good. I have got a lot of training in me now this summer, which was a worry for me leading into the pre-season,’’ Vardy explained.

"So hopefully my hip troubles are all behind me."

The inspiring forward is now itching to get out there in the number 30 guernsey and play footy for the club and more importantly the fans.

‘’I can't wait for the footy to start again," Vardy said.

This article came out one day after the NAB Cup Rd 1 squad was announced, but before the games were played. If Vardy missed selection because of a flare up of his hip injury, as has been reported in the media (by News Ltd. from memory), would Geelong really be stupid enough to publish an article a day later where Vardy says that his body is cherry ripe and that his hip injury is hopefully all behind him? I doubt it.

As for Stephenson, there were plenty of times during the season when he was fit, but we chose to go with basically just West in the ruck. Stephenson as a second ruckman didn't really work. Geelong went 3-3 in the games where West and Stephenson partnered up, with the wins being against the Bulldogs, GWS and Carlton (in a game where Geelong's rucks were absolutely slaughtered). This suggests that a tandem of West/Stephenson doesn't work, a tandem of Simpson/Stephenson (at AFL level at least) definitely wouldn't work and a tandem of McIntosh/Stephenson probably wouldn't work either. He'd either have to ruck with Vardy (with OS as the #1), or a Walker-type.

He was brave against Hawthorn and one of the catalysts for our amazing start, but by halftime Hale and Roughead were well on top. And of course, he was also gutsy, especially after sustaining an injury, against the Eagles, but we all know what happened in that game (41 disposals, 67 hitouts, 13 marks and 5 goals for West Coast's ruckmen). Of course he broke his hand and it was a great effort for him to tough it out for as long as he did, but if he had been 100% healthy, I'm not sure the result would have been much different.

 

[meto]

Walker was a kid last year, we all crap on about how long it takes for a tall to mature "look at D. Simpson or Brown", I'm sure if you put him next to Bathie he'd be eyeballing him and that kid has a big frame, bigger than Bathies' in my opinion.
His running is superior, so is the endurance and he's been blooded into seniors already because even last year he was first choice before Bathie.
I think in the NAB both have to stand up to grab their chance, I'm confident it'll be Walker.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

Is everyone around here blinded by Walkers mongrel and size to see that he doesn't win any ball and when he does his disposal and decision making is below average? I don't get the huge push for him just yet......He averaged 8 disposal and kicked 3 goals in 7 games playing 80% game time. He need to contribute a lot more than that.

This isn't a knock on him and hopefully he has improved over the summer and can show that in the coming weeks but man does he have a lot of to improve on from last year. I just think he is far from a shoe-in to be promoted and rightfully so....

 

[Copernicus]

If we have Hawkins rucking at any stage we are in deep shit. Experience has shown that he's not a ruckman's arseh*le.

I wouldn't be opposed to chucking in Blicavs for the sheer novelty effect, plus the massive leap on him may be a minor X-factor. Still don't think he'd be any chance to win or even draw with a proper ruckman, but at least we'd keep Hawkins where he belongs. Walker, not being quite as athletic, is even less chance of making a genuine contest.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Is everyone around here blinded by Walkers mongrel and size to see that he doesn't win any ball and when he does his disposal and decision making is below average? I don't get the huge push for him just yet......He averaged 8 disposal and kicked 3 goals in 7 games playing 80% game time. He need to contribute a lot more than that.

This isn't a knock on him and hopefully he has improved over the summer and can show that in the coming weeks but man does he have a lot of to improve on from last year. I just think he is far from a shoe-in to be promoted and rightfully so....

Vardy's career statistics aren't a lot better. It's not the best way to judge young big men.

Walker's games last year came when: a) Hawkins began playing like the best key forward in the league; b) Podsiadly was injured; and c) there was only one fit ruckman on the list. He was rarely going to be a target (in favour of Hawkins) in our forward line. He's a strong contested mark, he's not afraid to bust a few packs and so he looked like the best option to fill in for Pods, while giving West/Stephenson a brief spell in the ruck. He has also shown the ability to play in defence at VFL level. He was ok in his AFL games (especially for a rookie list key forward), but he didn't inspire much confidence that he'd ever get the hang of rucking. With our list in its current shape, it's something that he'll have to focus on over the next few weeks.

In the quest for promotion, Sheringham certainly had a case, but it's horses for courses now. It has to be a big man. I think Blicavs is still a fair way off, though he'll get valuable experience over the next few weeks. Bathie is a possibility and if he shows more than Walker in the ruck over the next two games (I certainly wouldn't bet against that), he might take the spot. There's a logjam of young key forwards who want (and probably deserve) an extended run at senior AFL football, but we're not going to be able to accommodate all of them. I have no doubt that Walker will add to his AFL games tally this year, but he's going to have his work cut out for him to really cement his spot as a regular in the side.

If we have Hawkins rucking at any stage we are in deep shit. Experience has shown that he's not a ruckman's arseh*le.

I wouldn't be opposed to chucking in Blicavs for the sheer novelty effect, plus the massive leap on him may be a minor X-factor. Still don't think he'd be any chance to win or even draw with a proper ruckman, but at least we'd keep Hawkins where he belongs. Walker, not being quite as athletic, is even less chance of making a genuine contest.

At some stage, if ruckmen keep going down, Hawkins will have to do some of that work. We don't have an unlimited supply. I raised Hamling as a possibility as well (bit of a forgotten man, who also went ok a fortnight ago), but I think there's two issues here. Firstly, if we've got Hamling/Blicavs/Bathie in as a second ruckman, it takes a spot out of the 22 that could go to a smaller player (the MC last year showed that they were more than happy to have West in there by himself), so they've got to provide more than a 5-10 minute spell in the ruck for Vardy or West; they'd have to contribute both around the ground and when they aren't in the ruck. We know Walker will at least be able to make a decent contest in the forward line, so the other options would have to provide more than what Walker can. Secondly, Bathie/Blicavs/Walker (unlike Hamling) would have to be promoted (and I think we only have room for one at this stage), so essentially they're fighting for that promotion over the next two games, especially if West and McIntosh don't get up for Round 1.

 

[Pivo]

With possibly no fit ruckmen come round 1 perhaps we need to go all Malcolm Blight/Matthew Knights and use Corey or Bartel as ruckmen.