Injury Trent West - knee arthroscope

[cats_09]

I might be wrong with this, but didn't H. Taylor pinch hit in the ruck at times last year?
If we don't have a fit ruckman come round 1, what the club might need to look at is spreading the load around different players - maybe use Hawkins as the ruck when the ball is in the forward 50, use Taylor when the ball is in the defensive half, and work out who offers the best versatility for around the ground as someone we can use for center bounces & midfield play - that might be Walker if the club feels he can also offer some up forward and/or down back as well, it might be Bathie who is slightly taller and stronger frame, or Blicavs gets used with acknowledgement that he will get beaten in the ruck contests but could almost become another midfielder with his endurance and keep the opposition ruck on the move all game or potential cause a mismatch with the opposition when they have to find someone to keep up with him.

 

[Seeds]

Walker was a kid last year, we all crap on about how long it takes for a tall to mature "look at D. Simpson or Brown", I'm sure if you put him next to Bathie he'd be eyeballing him and that kid has a big frame, bigger than Bathies' in my opinion.
His running is superior, so is the endurance and he's been blooded into seniors already because even last year he was first choice before Bathie.
I think in the NAB both have to stand up to grab their chance, I'm confident it'll be Walker.

Agree with all that. Problem is he is just no good at playing football.

 

[topic97]

If we have Hawkins rucking at any stage we are in deep shit. Experience has shown that he's not a ruckman's arseh*le.

Not only that, but it severely impacts his form as a forward.
I'd rather see stokes in the ruck before Hawkins is put in there! Lol

What about pods? Surely he can be rotated in to have a crack!

 

[Partridge]

Is everyone around here blinded by Walkers mongrel and size to see that he doesn't win any ball and when he does his disposal and decision making is below average? I don't get the huge push for him just yet......He averaged 8 disposal and kicked 3 goals in 7 games playing 80% game time. He need to contribute a lot more than that.

This isn't a knock on him and hopefully he has improved over the summer and can show that in the coming weeks but man does he have a lot of to improve on from last year. I just think he is far from a shoe-in to be promoted and rightfully so....

For some reason young players get thrown into two categories - we'll call them "gorgeous swan" and "ugly duckling". The first group are those that are ordained to be stars from the moment they walk in the door. Even if they actually haven't contributed much yet, they're spoken as being automatic best 22 without really having proven it. This group has Nathan Vardy, Billie Smedts, and now Josh Walker.

The other group are those that are ordained to not be stars, and for whatever reason have good performances maligned or ignored, or should be denied even the chance to get opportunities. This group has Trent West, Taylor Hunt and Mitch Brown.

Walker's got talent. His marking looks pretty good, and his enthusiasm and efforts are fantastic. But he has got a long, long way to go. He doesn't get enough of the ball, and as you say he doesn't necessarily use it well when he does, especially his kicking. I still think the best thing for him is to have a great season in the VFL, some senior games on occasion when warranted (and if there's a spot), and next year he could really push for regular selection. But he's not ready yet. Which is ok, he's still very young.

 

[FredLeDeux]

For some reason young players get thrown into two categories - we'll call them "gorgeous swan" and "ugly duckling". The first group are those that are ordained to be stars from the moment they walk in the door. Even if they actually haven't contributed much yet, they're spoken as being automatic best 22 without really having proven it. This group has Nathan Vardy, Billie Smedts, and now Josh Walker.

The other group are those that are ordained to not be stars, and for whatever reason have good performances maligned or ignored, or should be denied even the chance to get opportunities. This group has Trent West, Taylor Hunt and Mitch Brown.

Walker as a gorgeous swan and Brown as an ugly duckling would, without any doubt whatever, be the least appropriate metaphors I have heard in my entire life.

 

[year of the cat]

Walker as a gorgeous swan and Brown as an ugly duckling would, without any doubt whatever, be the least appropriate metaphors I have heard in my entire life.

It's the vibe of it. I like it.

 

[hbk_aus]

Walker as a gorgeous swan and Brown as an ugly duckling would, without any doubt whatever, be the least appropriate metaphors I have heard in my entire life.

I think in the context of how Partridge explained it, it makes perfect sense.

 

[Senatorguesty]

Walker as a gorgeous swan and Brown as an ugly duckling would, without any doubt whatever, be the least appropriate metaphors I have heard in my entire life.

Go the hots for Brown do you mate?

 

[Pivo]

I think in the context of how Partridge explained it, it makes perfect sense.

I think Fred means that Mitch Brown is actually viewed more as "beautiful swan" rather than "ugly duckling"...at least by the majority of the Geelong BF Board.

IMO people talk up Brown just as much as Walker...main point of difference seems to be the Club thought Walker deserved a spot last year while Brown didn't.

I do agree with Partridge that Walker gets talked up a bit (pretty sure I'm one of those people) despite not really having many runs on the board though.

 

[SleazySimon]

Think It's because mitch Brown went to the well to do Mentone Grammar in Melbournes east (enemy territory) and seemingly has no anger at the contest (seems content with his life) whereas walker comes from the backstreets of Geelong I think, has 'mongrel' and his grandfather played for us.

 

[hbk_aus]

I think Fred means that Mitch Brown is actually viewed more as "beautiful swan" rather than "ugly duckling"...at least by the majority of the Geelong BF Board.

IMO people talk up Brown just as much as Walker...main point of difference seems to be the Club thought Walker deserved a spot last year while Brown didn't.

I do agree with Partridge that Walker gets talked up a bit (pretty sure I'm one of those people) despite not really having many runs on the board though.

I think Partridge is saying that posters now want others to be given opportunities ahead of Brown, therefore putting him in that category. I think its all up to Brown - he needs to improve his intensity and agility when the ball hits the deck. Otherwise he will indeed be overtaken.

 

[hbk_aus]

Think It's because mitch Brown went to the well to do Mentone Grammar in Melbournes east (enemy territory) and seemingly has no anger at the contest (seems content with his life) whereas walker comes from the backstreets of Geelong I think, has 'mongrel' and his grandfather played for us.

I dont think Mentone has anything to do with it but I do think there is the romantic notion with a lot of people regarding Walkers family history. I am also from the "backstreets of Geelong" otherwise known as Lara but I wont take offence.

 

[footscore]

Think It's because mitch Brown went to the well to do Mentone Grammar in Melbournes east (enemy territory) and seemingly has no anger at the contest (seems content with his life) whereas walker comes from the backstreets of Geelong I think, has 'mongrel' and his grandfather played for us.

nahh, has a lot to do with one players luck with injuries while the other hasn't got an idea what it means to go under the knife just yet.

If Walker snapped his leg and busted every shoulder which put him out of action for 2½ years straight, reckon he'd be a little tentative in his decision making once he returned as well.

 

[hbk_aus]

nahh, has a lot to do with one players luck with injuries while the other hasn't got an idea what it means to go under the knife just yet.

If Walker snapped his leg and busted every shoulder which put him out of action for 2½ years straight, reckon he'd be a little tentative in his decision making once he returned as well.

Understand what you are saying but how long do you give him to regain that attack on the ball, if he ever had it in the first place? How long do you let him have a valuable spot on the list until he recovers from what were quite serious injuries and will he ever get it back? Thats the question for him to answer this year, and if not, the list management guys may answer it for him come the end of the season.

 

[footscore]

Nothing in there to disprove the fact that Hale was the best ruck on the ground in the GF. It's simply a fact.

stay away from the Hawthorn board Fred, they are currently discussing how great Hale was on grand final day

 

[footscore]

Understand what you are saying but how long do you give him to regain that attack on the ball, if he ever had it in the first place?

how did he bust the 2nd shoulder in the first place though?

For the crap he copped a couple of weeks ago, no one will bring up when he backed back into a pack trying to take a contested mark or how he dropped a sitter but put the head in harms way to collect it again.
People who watch the VFL would likely agree with me here, he's quite a courageous player who does indeed put his body on the line but like others have said, it's his pathetic 2nd attempts which undo any good work he did.
He just completely gives up after the defender takes possession but it's slowly changing and would need to.

 

[footscore]

I shouldn't say he completely gives up but he puts in a very lackluster effort like he wants to conserve energy or something or he gets down on himself for missing the opportunity in the first place and doesn't follow through with trying to get it back again, guess only the MC know why

 

[FredLeDeux]

For some reason young players get thrown into two categories - we'll call them "gorgeous swan" and "ugly duckling". The first group are those that are ordained to be stars from the moment they walk in the door. Even if they actually haven't contributed much yet, they're spoken as being automatic best 22 without really having proven it. This group has Nathan Vardy, Billie Smedts, and now Josh Walker.

The other group are those that are ordained to not be stars, and for whatever reason have good performances maligned or ignored, or should be denied even the chance to get opportunities. This group has Trent West, Taylor Hunt and Mitch Brown.

Walker's got talent. His marking looks pretty good, and his enthusiasm and efforts are fantastic. But he has got a long, long way to go. He doesn't get enough of the ball, and as you say he doesn't necessarily use it well when he does, especially his kicking. I still think the best thing for him is to have a great season in the VFL, some senior games on occasion when warranted (and if there's a spot), and next year he could really push for regular selection. But he's not ready yet. Which is ok, he's still very young.

I think your metaphor was bizarre, but I understood what you were saying.
You should add Horlin-Smith to your first group by the way, if anyone belongs there, he does.
I haven't seen anyone ever ordain Walker as a star, or have him automatic best 22.
The club ordained Smedts as a star, but most posters have been less enthusiastic. Those who have him best 22 (not many say its automatic) generally do so in the spot where he actually succeeded last season - as a small defensive F50 player.
Many posters have Vardy as best 22, either as ruck or CHF, despite his limited output. In my opinion it is a legitimate viewpoint to say that what we've seen so far indicates that he may surpass and eventually replace West and/or Pods, but it is unreasonable to say he should play ahead of them yet. However, on what I've seen of him so far, he simply displays far more natural talent and potential than Brown or Walker, and should therefore play ahead of them if it's decided he's a forward.
THunt's performances and importance to the team are under-rated by many, and I don't know why.
West's good performances are sometimes unfairly maligned or ignored. But it is not unreasonable to point out, as many have, that we had a clearances problem around the ground last season, that it was attributable to both rucks and mids, and that we need to do do something about it, including replacing West in the 1st ruckman's role if necessary.
I don't know if anyone has said Brown should be denied even the chance to get opportunities. Many have legitimately said that, as a KPF, Vardy has more potential; and/or that it may be hard for Brown and Walker to find a spot in the team's structure. They will have to convince the MC of their merits, then show what they can do. Neither should get a game as of right. Your claim that Walker is a year away from playing, true or not, is irrelevant to whether Brown should get a game.

 

[FredLeDeux]

stay away from the Hawthorn board Fred, they are currently discussing how great Hale was on grand final day

Thanks mate, but I wouldn't go near the Hawthorn board even if someone screwed my head to the screen.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Walker as a gorgeous swan and Brown as an ugly duckling would, without any doubt whatever, be the least appropriate metaphors I have heard in my entire life.

I can understand the metaphor, but I think they're pretty dynamic classifications. For example, 12-18 months ago, Brown would undoubtedly have been considered a swan. Just cast your mind back to mid-2011 when he made a good debut, then sustained another season-ending injury in the space of a week. You'd probably be permanently banned on here for saying anything slightly negative about him and no-one would have anyway...he was the next big thing then. Certainly not tooting my own horn (because I like Brown as a player and would love for him to make it as a player at Geelong), but a good example is this thread from the start of last year. The consensus from 12 months ago is that all we wanted from Brown in 2012 was for him not to break down. An entire season in the VFL was fine, as long as he didn't suffer any serious injuries. He matched those expectations; you could even argue he exceeded them, but he's on plenty of chopping blocks now.

Similarly, I think it's pretty debatable that Walker is a swan; he's certainly not in the same category as someone like Vardy (and I'm not knocking Vardy...just highlighting that everyone predicts huge things from him) and could very easily be one of the ducklings in a year's time (in fact, I'd go so far as predicting it right now). Because Walker is poised to have a Brown 2012 season: very limited opportunities, a couple of bad senior performances, a couple of ok ones and people start wondering 'what have you done for me lately?'

 

[Jon Douglas]

I think we just got to hope both Brown and Walker come good for us long term.

Brown has a a very difficult time of of it injury wise - and most posters believe(d) before this horrible run of injuries - considered he had the skills and height to be a decent forward for us. As our list seems pretty full with potential presently and with a only a few retirements each year from the side - Brown's fortunes have changed. Time is not probably on his side and he seems to look like a laconic type player.

Walker is younger and has more time on his side. He does not seem to have the skills of Brown - but he does grunt and attitude. You cannot teach hardness easily - and those with it naturally, like Max Rooke, can go a long way even without the skills of a premier footballer.

I reckon it more likely Walker will make it in a few years - probably as a CHB. Big, not slow and decent hands. And will always give a contest. If he learn to stick close to his man, get his positioning right and use his natural physicality legally - he will be a decent footballer that may not have all the skills in the world (kicking worries me a bit) but will do a good job down back for us.

If only we could marry up Bown's skills and Walker's intent, hardness, size and desire for a contest. Wow that would be a great combination I reckon.

I still think there is an outside chance for Brown - as the stories of Pods, West and Lonergan - where Geelong waited, gave them time to get fit and accustomed to AFL game intensity - has resulted in all 3 getting a Premiership medallion. Brown is probably talented enough from what little we have seen of him. Seems to have good hands, a nice kick and reasonable judgement. His pitfalls are injuries, size and hardness.

If he can get over injuries and not suffer from them again - can therefore stay on the park (initially in the VFL) and then can earn an elevation for 4-6 senior games (and play quite well/show something in the games) - he could well be a required player in 2014. If he gets badly injured or does not perform well in the VFL - he could well be traded come the end of season.

We have a had a few bad luck stories re injury (and the AFL bringing in new teams cost us Ablett) - it would be good for another West, Pods, Lonergan story/outcome with Brown. Most unsure whether, for various reasons, they were unlikely to make it as a AFL player, let alone a Premiership AFL player - but they did.

And I reckon Brown would have to be pretty good to get a gig on our forward line as we already have Pods, Hawkins, Vardy and Kersten. So if somehow Brown can get a run down forward he must be doing quite a few things right.

In 2 seasons time I reckon Walker will emerge as a decent, competitive backman for us. It would bring a smile to my face if Mitch Brown was in the same side and kicked 5 against Hawthorn while Walker kept Buddy quite.

 

[you pick one]

If Walker doesn't get promoted,I want to see him play 22 games + at CHB in the VFL.
Plenty of footballer who started as forwards have made the transition no reason why he couldn't do the same.

 

[The rabbi]

Woops, must have clicked the wrong link. I was looking for the "Trent West - knee arthroscope" thread.

 

[footscore]

If Walker doesn't get promoted,I want to see him play 22 games + at CHB in the VFL.
Plenty of footballer who started as forwards have made the transition no reason why he couldn't do the same.

this
has body strength, supreme agility for his height, endurance, very solid hands but his kicking may get the better of him in front of the big sticks.
Don't believe it's exaggerating to suggest guys of his size with that kind of mobility are very rare to find in the league.
It's why Harry Taylor is a star and he's a smaller bloke in comparison to Walker (although an elite kick).

 

[you pick one]

Woops, must have clicked the wrong link. I was looking for the "Trent West - knee arthroscope" thread.

Using question time in Parliament as the yard stick,I'd say we're being directly relevant in answering the question.
There's is no point of order rabbi.
Trent West,where was I?