Universal Love TRTT Part 8: Random thoughts also sack Hinkley

[Butters Made Me Do It]

Half that number.

https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6248.0.55.002
KEY POINTS

• In June 2018 there were 1,987,000 public sector employees. There were 240,700 employees in Commonwealth government, 1,558,700 in state government and 187,600 in local government.
• In 2017-18, the total cash wages and salaries for the public sector was $158,592.0 million.

I don't think that includes the 80k in the defence forces.

Stupid me read that wrong and added the total to the components

i am so smart S M R T

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Not in America. The rank and file choose their candidate for the Presidential election through the primaries. That's how a charlatan like Trump was able to manipulate his way to the Republican nomination, because enough registered Republicans voted for him over the other Republican candidates.

You'd never get a Trump type as the leader of a major party in Australia. The people don't have the same power to elect their party's leader and the major parties themselves would never allow it.

The 50 odd primaries, yes there are more primaries than states because Puerto Rico, Guam etc get primaries, vary between who can vote. In some primaries its only members of the party, in some its only registered party voters, in some its registered party voters and registered independents, and in others it was every registered voter is allowed. So rank and file is varied across primaries.

One thing that just about everything in the USA political process is that they hate centrally imposed rules. Its why they had a revolution, they don't like concentrated power.

 

[LukeSA]

The 50 odd primaries, yes there are more primaries than states because Puerto Rico, Guam etc get primaries, vary between who can vote. In some primaries its only members of the party, in some its only registered party voters, in some its registered party voters and registered independents, and in others it was every registered voter is allowed. So rank and file is varied across primaries.

One thing that just about everything in the USA political process is that they hate centrally imposed rules. Its why they had a revolution, they don't like concentrated power.

That is just odd, Puerto Rico can participate in presidential primaries but cannot vote as they aren't a state and have no representation.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Had a txt conversation yesterday with my mate who joined the Labor party when he was 15. His old man was economic adviser to Labor at the time of Dunstan, Whitlam, Wran, Hawke at the ACTU etc. My mate worked for Kelty at the ACTU, worked with Hawke in 1991 and then has done stuff with Hawke the last 20 odd years as he is writing a book about the Price Incomes Accord and the Labor - ACTU relationship between 1983-96.

I asked him what does he thinks Labor have to do to win again. He said Labor has to be a labour party again, don't pander to identity politics, feminism, LGBT, greens and class warfare. Move back to the centre where Hawke was.

I initially was a bit shocked by his response, as he has always been pro equal rights for different groups, but I guess reality hits when Labor is continually polling 35% first preferences or less, and dependent on Greens 10%+ first preferences to win a lot of seats.

IMO in 20 years time, Oz will be more like Europe and NZ and have lots of small parties who will control the balance of power and the major parties have to form coalitions in both houses.

It's happened in New Zealand where they have had Mixed Member Proportional voting system since 1993. In simple terms their system is they have one house of parliament and its a combination of our house of reps + senate, ie 71 members are elected by winning a seat and 50 members come from the percentage of votes their party gets. They call this List members. They have 7 electorates across NZ for Maori elected members. NZ got rid of their senate in 1952.

In NZ the 1993 election was the last one under the old system and since MPP, no party has had a majority of seats and has had to form a coalition government with at least 1 other party. Ardern government is a combo of Labor, NZ First and Greens.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

That is just odd, Puerto Rico can participate in presidential primaries but cannot vote as they aren't a state and have no representation.

Give them some scraps of feeling like they participate in US democracy.

 

[LukeSA]

Give them some scraps of felling like they participate in US democracy.

It is crazy though, if you were born on the US mainland and move to Puerto Rico (i am presuming other US territories as well) you are not allowed to vote but are allowed to send a postal vote if you live literally anywhere else.

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

Had a txt conversation yesterday with my mate who joined the Labor party when he was 15. His old man was economic adviser to Labor at the time of Dunstan, Whitlam, Wran, Hawke at the ACTU etc. My mate worked for Kelty at the ACTU, worked with Hawke in 1991 and then has done stuff with Hawke the last 20 odd years as he is writing a book about the Price Incomes Accord and the Labor - ACTU relationship between 1983-96.

I asked him what does he thinks Labor have to do to win again. He said Labor has to be a labour party again, don't pander to identity politics, feminism, LGBT, greens and class warfare. Move back to the centre where Hawke was.

I initially was a bit shocked by his response, as he has always been pro equal rights for different groups, but I guess reality hits when Labor is continually polling 35% first preferences or less, and dependent on Greens 10%+ first preferences to win a lot of seats.

IMO in 20 years time, Oz will be more like Europe and NZ and have lots of small parties who will control the balance of power and the major parties have to form coalitions in both houses.

It's happened in New Zealand where they have had Mixed Member Proportional voting system since 1993. In simple terms their system is they have one house of parliament and its a combination of our house of reps + senate, ie 71 members are elected by winning a seat and 50 members come from the percentage of votes their party gets. They call this List members. They have 7 electorates across NZ for Maori elected members. NZ got rid of their senate in 1952.

In NZ the 1993 election was the last one under the old system and since MPP, no party has had a majority of seats and has had to form a coalition government with at least 1 other party. Ardern government is a combo of Labor, NZ First and Greens.

If Labor try to move even further to the right they will die as a party.

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

If you've got any selfless, altruistic reasons why somebody would vote Liberal I'd be interested to hear them.

Liberal voters are the most selfless of all in reality. Most of them are voting directly against their own interests to help big businesses make more money.

Imagine wanting to live like they do in the USA where one leg injury could end up with you losing your home and out on the streets in debt. All so that Clive Palmer can make more money to buy elections.

If that’s not altruistic I don’t know what is.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

It is crazy though, if you were born on the US mainland and move to Puerto Rico (i am presuming other US territories as well) you are not allowed to vote but are allowed to send a postal vote if you live literally anywhere else.

I don't think that is right. If you are a US citizen and sent to work in Puerto Rico you would be allowed to vote. they wouldn't disenfranchise you. Puerto Ricans aren't given US citizenship, so they can't vote from Puerto Rico, but if they are granted permanent residency and live on the mainland they can vote. I understand that is the same rules for people from Guam, American Samoa, US Virgin Islands etc.

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

I agree it does, but I don't think a Labour government would solve a lot more issues than what a Liberal government will. Yes Labour has a climate change policy, but I don't think its all that much more achievable than what the Liberals had. I voted Labour because the candidate in my electorate was by far the best candidate and has a track record of doing great things. But, despite that, Shorten comes across as untrustworthy, arrogant, slimeball and probably the most unlikeable person in the country. The fact he's lost to both an unsettled shambles of a party and then lost to a god bothering, same sex marriage denier with no real policies says its all. People hate him. A lot of people. Good on Labour for finding stability after the turmoil of the Rudd/Gillard era but they backed the wrong horse and are now paying for it by losing two elections they should have won.

People can blame Queenslanders and can blame the elderly for being selfish as much as they like. In the end, blaming them is like blaming the length of grass when Port lose a game.

Relating this to football is silly.

The political and economic system is extremely rigged to helping those with money use that money to gain power and more money. An endless cycle that pushes resources towards the top, which allows them to completely control the political narrative.

Labor are a garbage organisation, but the liberals were the absolute worst government we’ve ever had under Morrison. They literally refused to sit in parliament for 6 months.

Clive Palmer and Murdoch bought this election like their ilk have so many times before.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

If Labor try to move even further to the right they will die as a party.

They wont die as party. They are moving to the centre not hard right. The question for them is, how much do they lose to the left, and how much can they pick up from the right?

Look at what happens at state politics all over Oz. Both major parties move both left and right to win and the federal party sometimes follows, sometimes ignores the move.

 

[bomberclifford]

The political and economic system is extremely rigged to helping those with money use that money to gain power and more money.

Have you only just realised this?

 

[LukeSA]

I don't think that is right. If you are a US citizen and sent to work in Puerto Rico you would be allowed to vote. they wouldn't disenfranchise you. Puerto Ricans aren't given US citizenship, so they can't vote from Puerto Rico, but if they are granted permanent residency and live on the mainland they can vote. I understand that is the same rules for people from Guam, American Samoa, US Virgin Islands etc.

They can't vote because they are technically living in the US but in a place that is not represented in the electoral college.

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

Have you only just realised this?

No?

 

[Grave Danger]

They can't vote because they are technically living in the US but in a place that is not represented in the electoral college.

Do they have to pay US taxes...?

 

[Schulzenfest]

Wait, are we implying Labor aren't already centrist?

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

They wont die as party. They are moving to the centre not hard right. The question for them is, how much do they lose to the left, and how much can they pick up from the right?

Look at what happens at state politics all over Oz. Both major parties move both left and right to win and the federal party sometimes follows, sometimes ignores the move.

Labor are already right of the “centre”. Anti refugee, pro big businesses, pro intervention, anti union action.

They just know how to avoid running the economy into the ground by somewhat distributing wealth.

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

Have you only just realised this?

What I have realised recently is that we absolutely can change the system if enough people want to.

 

[LukeSA]

Do they have to pay US taxes...?

Probably, pay all the money with none of the benefits.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The climate change debate / concern whilst real, really is a policy farce and dishonest politics by all sides.

I get the need for a decent renewable energy policy and lock it in long term that is clear and gives everyone the certainty to invest in. Political parties gotta fix that up.

But all sides bullshit about what they can do to really affect climate change.

Australia exports 340m tonnes of coking and thermal coal. That generates $60 billion of export revenue and applying the multiplier effect, that drives about $200 billion in a $2 Trillion Oz economy. Then there is the coking and thermal coal used in Oz. That is going to be burnt around the world and there is nothing the Oz government can do to stop that other than banning coal exports and burning coal in Oz.

But neither major party is going to do that, and both parties to meet their targets want to buy carbon credits off povo countries, some of them sinking under rising sea levels. as the poles melt. So basically Oz is saying, we want to burn fossil fuels, sell our high income earning fossill fuels to the world, pollute the earth and stay advanced, but you stay a backward country and keep your trees and we will buy the credits off you so you can buy a few goods and services from us.

Rather than 10 years of fighting, should have invested hundreds of millions and billions of dollars in tidal wave energy generation technology, the tides don't stop and wont whilst there is a moon, as well as working with the rest of the world to work out how to use the toxic poisonous shit that is nuclear waste, reuse the 97% or so of energy that is in that toxic poisonous waste to become a fuel again. Not sure uranium mining companies like that idea, but bad luck.

Nothing significant will happen about climate change around the world until its too late. Its all finessing around the edges, to feel good, because if you can't get a few millions people in Oz to agree, so you wont get a few billion around the world to agree, especially the hundreds of millions in the rich nations. Chiseling out of a cartel is always profitable.

 

[Grave Danger]

Probably, pay all the money with none of the benefits.

Taxation without representation!

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Labor are already right of the “centre”. Anti refugee, pro big businesses, pro intervention, anti union action.

They just know how to avoid running the economy into the ground by somewhat distributing wealth.

Right of centre on somethings doesn't make them a right party. They still have plenty of left policies on their agenda. I don't see them as pro big business or anti union action. I don't know what pro intervention is. What are they intervening in?

 

[tribey]

I guess you’re just not serious about solving climate change. Gen III Nuclear exists now to give us carbon free safe and cheap electricity. Gen IV nuclear, the kind that eats nuclear waste and has virtually zero risk of meltdown is being built and piloted. Renewables and batteries have reached their physical limits and demonstrably can not provide reliable power to scale. The power generated by nuclear will be used to charge electric vehicles and in energy intensive carbon sequestration. Of the renewables that have potential, their land requirements are so large that their impact on their surrounding environment becomes an issue. Go nuclear now, solve the climate change issue for future generations, save the planet and maybe in 50 years we’ll be able to transition to 100% renewables. It’s the morally right thing to do.

Besides which, the ‘cost’ argument is frustrating given how many billions have been poured into wind, solar, batteries and neon lobsters to barely touch the sides of the problem at hand.

How much did Elon Musk’s boondoggle cost for three quarters of a breath of power in the event a purple unicorn sneezed in the direction of Largs?

How’s Germany’s world leading™ Energiewende going, as they fire up filthy lignite power stations to make good the shortfall from Helen Lovejoying perfectly good existing nuclear plants and are missing their trumpeted emissions targets.

If only we could convert related backslapping and cufflinked handshaking into energy.

 

[Janus]

Right of centre on somethings doesn't make them a right party. They still have plenty of left policies on their agenda. I don't see them as pro big business or anti union action. I don't know what pro intervention is. What are they intervening in?

Aboriginal affairs in the Northern Territory, I would hazard a guess.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

2019 The Status Quo election. Bugger all has changed in an overall picture.

Most independents holding on to their seats, government won seat off an independent and another lost to an independent. Government wins 4 seats and loses 1, maybe 1 more changes hand. Two party preferred votes changes by less than half a percent over the whole country.

Just gotta find the right Status Quo song now. Although Shorten, Abbott and few others get Down, Down.