Ummmm....not sure how you put a title to this topic

Black_White

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#2
stunning, absolutely, stunning.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-27/former-archbishop-phillip-wilson-appeals-conviction/10559390


I’ve not a very high opinion of lawyers, particularly as a lot end up being politicians.
But how the hell do they sleep at night?
Ironic as in the Politics thread you nominated Bad Horse for "post of the year" in support of his disdain for the Liberal Party in Prahran when the Labour candidate was a 34 year old lawyer who runs a "consultancy firm" as opposed to a well respected paediatrician and medical researcher.... :thumbsdown:

I agree with you though and when you see some of the clients that barrister has represented in the past...
 

ottoman

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#3
stunning, absolutely, stunning.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-27/former-archbishop-phillip-wilson-appeals-conviction/10559390


I’ve not a very high opinion of lawyers, particularly as a lot end up being politicians.
But how the hell do they sleep at night?
How do they sleep at night?
Quite well I imagine.
We live in a world where we value money above everything.
We judge people on the cars they drive and the suburbs they live in.
It doesn't matter how they earn that money, if they drive a fancy car, socialise at the "in" places and live in a large house in an expensive suburb then we respect him or her.
The guy who works a non skilled job on minimum wage. Well he or she is a loser.
How fat is your wallet? That's what is important.
 

Bad Horse

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#4
Ironic as in the Politics thread you nominated Bad Horse for "post of the year" in support of his disdain for the Liberal Party in Prahran when the Labour candidate was a 34 year old lawyer who runs a "consultancy firm" as opposed to a well respected paediatrician and medical researcher.... :thumbsdown:

I agree with you though and when you see some of the clients that barrister has represented in the past...
Ironic then that in fact I voted for Sam Hibbins, who was the Greens candidate, also a fairly respected member of our community. I have no idea why you zeroed in on Labor there.

While I was not averse to the potential of the Liberal candidate in Prahran, like the one in Wentworth for example, in the end, she chose to run in a party with all the flaws and issues I outlined. She chose to run pamphlets and robocalls with the most egregious dog whistling imaginable, and put her name to them. And she, whether expressly or just going with the party machine, chose to bus in happy clappers from outer eastern mega churches to harangue me about safe schools in my own home.

At some point in the ssm debate I ceased taking it. I ceased turning the other cheek, being quiet, or excusing people their shitfulness. Sincere religious convictions is not a get out of jail free card for being an asshole. And if you stand on the side of the river with people throwing rocks at me and mine, and do nothing but mouth platitudes, at some point I cease caring whether you are a good person, or whether you personally picked up a rock or not. Especially if you handed them the rocks. Even a respected pediatrician and medical researcher, you are campaigner and you deserve to go down.
 
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Black_White

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How do they sleep at night?
Quite well I imagine.
We live in a world where we value money above everything.
We judge people on the cars they drive and the suburbs they live in.
It doesn't matter how they earn that money, if they drive a fancy car, socialise at the "in" places and live in a large house in an expensive suburb then we respect him or her.
The guy who works a non skilled job on minimum wage. Well he or she is a loser.
How fat is your wallet? That's what is important.
My wallet ain’t that fat.
And I’m very very comfortable with that.
I value my fre time over and above the pursuit of the almighty dollar.
I’ll die a pauper.
But I’ll die a very relaxed pauper.
 
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Ironic then that in fact I voted for Sam Hibbins, who was the Greens candidate, also a fairly respected member of our community. I have no idea why you zeroed in on Labor there.
I zeroed in on Labour because it is a left leaning social democratic party which in the Australian two party dominant system is opposed to the Liberal party who's campaign strategy has been the focus of your repeated critical analysis.

The irony, or some may say hypocrisy, in Black_White's post was that after strongly supporting your post against the Liberal party, he stated in this thread "I’ve not a very high opinion of lawyers, particularly as a lot end up being politicians", as the Labour candidate is indeed a lawyer.

Personally I think it's fantastic that you've taken a strong stand in support of issues and you should be commended.

However, respectfully, I think the criticisms you applied in this particular instance to the Liberal candidate (as guilt by association with religious groups) essentially could just as easily be applied to the candidate that you stated that you voted for.
 

Black_White

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I zeroed in on Labour because it is a left leaning social democratic party which in the Australian two party dominant system is opposed to the Liberal party who's campaign strategy has been the focus of your repeated critical analysis.

The irony, or some may say hypocrisy, in Black_White's post was that after strongly supporting your post against the Liberal party, he stated in this thread "I’ve not a very high opinion of lawyers, particularly as a lot end up being politicians", as the Labour candidate is indeed a lawyer.

Personally I think it's fantastic that you've taken a strong stand in support of issues and you should be commended.

However, respectfully, I think the criticisms you applied in this particular instance to the Liberal candidate (as guilt by association with religious groups) essentially could just as easily be applied to the candidate that you stated that you voted for.
I don’t understand where you get the idea that I distinguished between Liberal and Labor lawyers.
I didn’t, and don’t.
The infiltration of lawyers into our political system is something that needs redressing.
I celebrated Ricky Muir’s election. The common man.
Should be more of it.

P.S. Hinch ain’t the common man.
 
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I don’t understand where you get the idea that I distinguished between Liberal and Labor lawyers.
I didn’t, and don’t.
The infiltration of lawyers into our political system is something that needs redressing.
I celebrated Ricky Muir’s election. The common man.
Should be more of it.

P.S. Hinch ain’t the common man.
I will try and make this clear and simple.

You praised Bad Horse's Prahran Liberal candidate bashing post. Post of the year IIRC.

The next day you said "I’ve not a very high opinion of lawyers, particularly as a lot end up being politicians."

Today you say you celebrated Ricky Muir's election who is as far from the Greens as possible.

The only reasonable summation one could draw from your statements is that you would have been a Labour supporter in that particular instance.

The Labour candidate in Prahran was a lawyer......
 

Black_White

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I will try and make this clear and simple.

You praised Bad Horse's Prahran Liberal candidate bashing post. Post of the year IIRC.

The next day you said "I’ve not a very high opinion of lawyers, particularly as a lot end up being politicians."

Today you say you celebrated Ricky Muir's election who is as far from the Greens as possible.

The only reasonable summation one could draw from your statements is that you would have been a Labour supporter in that particular instance.

The Labour candidate in Prahran was a lawyer......
As was the Labour Prime Minister Gilliard.
And I have a high regard for her because she lived by ethics, in politics and her career.
 

Saintly Viewed

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As was the Labour Prime Minister Gilliard.
And I have a high regard for her because she lived by ethics, in politics and her career.
Craig Emerson says hi.
They love those ethics those two delights.

:D

Ps how’s that file she opened in her career and never billed (without telling her boss).

I agree the first one I think of when it comes to ethics.
 

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Black_White

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Craig Emerson says hi.
They love those ethics those two delights.

:D

Ps how’s that file she opened in her career and never billed (without telling her boss).

I agree the first one I think of when it comes to ethics.
Pffttt...typical right wing response.
Did more good for the Australian people in her term than every PM since.
 
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Ahem perhaps Craig and Julia were really good friends and as our great ethicist was mentioning ethics...
In Craig Emerson's words not yours... "In Canberra I formed a close relationship with Julia Gillard that, over time, developed into a romantic relationship. Cathy (his wife) asked me to leave the family home; "

Did the RC charge her?


A Royal Commission cannot charge anyone. They may make recommendations. Ultimately though, they can do no more than find only that a person’s conduct may have constituted a breach of the law.


 

Saintly Viewed

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Pffttt...typical right wing response.
Did more good for the Australian people in her term than every PM since.
Typical nonsense reply

Left Right, hoary cliches.

Who cares.

The point was as usual you trumpeted something (great ethics and all that) and as usual you weren’t close.
 
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Black_White

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Typical nonsense reply

Left Right, hoary cliches.

Who cares.

The point was as usual you trumpeted something (great ethics and all that) and as usual you weren’t close.
How so?
My point is even more reinforced by the revelations revealed in the past week.
A lawyer who “defended” her clients by being a police informer.
The majority of the breed are in it for the money. There are exceptions of course, Julia is one of those. But most would sell their granny for a price. And that takes a whole lot of lack of morals.
I’ll stand by my view, because as always, it’s the correct view.

P.S. and “left/right cliches”.
I care, as do many on the opposite side of me.
It’s what makes politics vital to our future.
 

Maggie5

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Ahem perhaps Craig and Julia were really good friends and as our great ethicist was mentioning ethics...
In Craig Emerson's words not yours... "In Canberra I formed a close relationship with Julia Gillard that, over time, developed into a romantic relationship. Cathy (his wife) asked me to leave the family home;
I thought Lawyers becoming politicians was the story. Affairs seem par for the course nowadays and not sure if you are going to discuss ethics, why it is only one 'side'. Sad some topics cannot be discussed without cheerleading.

A Royal Commission cannot charge anyone. They may make recommendations. Ultimately though, they can do no more than find only that a person’s conduct may have constituted a breach of the law.
That was what I was meaning - no recommendations, therefore not charged with anything.
 
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I thought Lawyers becoming politicians was the story. Affairs seem par for the course nowadays and not sure if you are going to discuss ethics, why it is only one 'side'. Sad some topics cannot be discussed without cheerleading.

That was what I was meaning - no recommendations, therefore not charged with anything.
No, the initial "story" was Black_Whites's hypocrisy regarding lawyers, a point I note they still have failed to comprehend. At no point did I contend that having an affair was related to ethics or any breach thereof nor was I attempting to present "one side". Merely responding to Saintly Viewed's suggestion that Craig and Julia were "really good friends" with a direct quote from a party involved that is present in the public domain. I'm not entirely clear what you mean when you refer to "cheerleading", but if you are suggesting that I was trying to garner support for the contention that participating in an affair with a married person with children and essentially destroying a family is unethical, I can assure you that is not the case. If so I clearly would have drawn attention to the Wilson/Gillard relationship whilst Wilson was still married with children in the early 90s. If you meant that I was "cheerleading" to show support for a political party I suggest that would be incorrect as well as I have not expressed any political beliefs of my own.

With regard to the no recommendations that charges be laid against Ms Gillard you are entirely correct. A not entirely predictable outcome given the events occurred over twenty five years ago and the fact that the accused was a senior law firm partner and former Prime Minister of Australia. However there were other recommendations made in the AWU segment of the TURC Royal Commission against her co-accused, some of a serious nature. If you are in the mood for some light reading and haven't had the chance to peruse the TURC RC don't worry because I have. I highly recommend the 2014 Interim Report, Volume 1 pages 73-314. I found it very damning and the thought of it actually makes me feel sick. I genuinely would love to hear your thoughts on it.
 

Maggie5

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No, the initial "story" was Black_Whites's hypocrisy regarding lawyers, a point I note they still have failed to comprehend. At no point did I contend that having an affair was related to ethics or any breach thereof nor was I attempting to present "one side". Merely responding to Saintly Viewed's suggestion that Craig and Julia were "really good friends" with a direct quote from a party involved that is present in the public domain. I'm not entirely clear what you mean when you refer to "cheerleading", but if you are suggesting that I was trying to garner support for the contention that participating in an affair with a married person with children and essentially destroying a family is unethical, I can assure you that is not the case. If so I clearly would have drawn attention to the Wilson/Gillard relationship whilst Wilson was still married with children in the early 90s. If you meant that I was "cheerleading" to show support for a political party I suggest that would be incorrect as well as I have not expressed any political beliefs of my own.

With regard to the no recommendations that charges be laid against Ms Gillard you are entirely correct. A not entirely predictable outcome given the events occurred over twenty five years ago and the fact that the accused was a senior law firm partner and former Prime Minister of Australia. However there were other recommendations made in the AWU segment of the TURC Royal Commission against her co-accused, some of a serious nature. If you are in the mood for some light reading and haven't had the chance to peruse the TURC RC don't worry because I have. I highly recommend the 2014 Interim Report, Volume 1 pages 73-314. I found it very damning and the thought of it actually makes me feel sick. I genuinely would love to hear your thoughts on it.
Not only have a read a lot of it but I also watched the TURC RC live on-line as well as the RC (3rd one?) into the Pink Batts.

As to the rest of your post, not really interested in commenting further.
 
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How so?
My point is even more reinforced by the revelations revealed in the past week.
A lawyer who “defended” her clients by being a police informer.
No, you actually just proved my point again.

Your first post you derided lawyers for doing their best for a guilty campaigner

Now you complain when they roll on a guilty campaigner

What does a profession have to do to satisfy your requirements>
 
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76woodenspooners

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#23
stunning, absolutely, stunning.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-27/former-archbishop-phillip-wilson-appeals-conviction/10559390


I’ve not a very high opinion of lawyers, particularly as a lot end up being politicians.
But how the hell do they sleep at night?
What’s the alternative?

Free guilty folks because they can’t get the legal representation our rule of law entitles them to?

Lock up the not-guilty folks because they can’t get decent legal representation?

How else can you determine if somebody is guilty or not-guilty unless you give them a fair trial? And provide avenues for appeal when miscarriage of justice is claimed?

The lawyers are just pawns in this game. It’s the politicians who write the laws. And it’s the judge / jury who decide if somebody is guilty and what the consequences are.

Our system isn’t perfect - but can you suggest a more perfect one?
 
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