Umpire Hits Back - article: Why experts are wrong to bash umpires

[bzparkes]

Yeah, and how did you 'win' 3 quarters mate?

By outscoring the opposition. Geez, you really have no idea...

 

[skipper kelly]

The AFL try to dictate how they want the game to be played. Umpires get directions from the AFL on how they want the rules to be interpreted. Funnily enough the protected zone has been mostly ignored so far this year. Why are rules ignored some weeks and paid other weeks?

 

[Mister B]

Interesting thing I get from this though is that with the exception of the WCE abnormality, every non-Vic team has an away differential of -1.8 or greater. Compare that to Victorian sides whose "away" games are largely in their home state and the only ones that come close are Essendon and Hawthorn. For me, this suggests that whether intentional or not, umpires clearly do get swayed with things like crowd noise etc and it can be amplified the greater the difference in attending fans of both sides.

Edit: Just read the full article and it pretty much suggests exactly that.

 

[skipper kelly]

Well he did coach under Clarkson, a coach who is famous for pushing the rules as far as he can. If Saints have been on the wrong end of the free kick differential for years then there's only one common denominator; St Kilda FC itself, which means there is no hometown bias interstate because in years past we've won the free kick count VS St Kilda in Vic. Perhaps St Kilda are simply poorly coached on the rules? Richardson appeared that way when he was having a whinge on 360 the other night when asked about the free kick count in Perth.

Should this even be a thing where AFL players are coached about the rules of the game?

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Wait, the Hawks/Dogs conspiracies are just bunk?

**** off nobody wants to hear that shit. Thread will die a slow death.

 

[Footypie32]

Umpires need to be full time. End of story. If the AFL can afford to throw millions of dollars at the Gold Coast they can afford to pay Umpires to be full time professionals.

And Umpires should not be above criticism. Nobody should.

 

[who gives a]

Lets have a look at all WCE V Stk games at Ethihad since 2005
This is Free kick count
2005 no game
2006 16-9 Stk
2007 15-15
2008 no game
2009 32-24 WCE
2010 no game
2011 19-11 WCE
2012 no game
2013 22-14 WCE
2014 19-9 WCE
2015 20-12 WCE
2016 no game
So in 5 out of 7 matches against Stk at Ethihad WCE have won the free kick count by similar margins as they get at home. This means that WCE are taking home town umpires and their crowds to games at Ethihad when we play STK

 

[demondavey]

No-one really is giving this much consideration from a commercial perspective. If West Coast is playing in a tight game against a side from eastern seaboard, and there is opportunity to put the home side in front, OF COURSE the umpires will preference the home side.

Majority of supporters in the stands are home supporters.
For each home supporter a dollar value is represented.
More supporters, more money.
More happy home supporters, more attendance.
More attendance, more money.

It's a cycle that goes around and around and around.

Why upset supporters in their home state? No commercial benefit, is there?

 

[demondavey]

By outscoring the opposition. Geez, you really have no idea...

No, by receiving free kicks to provide opportunities to outscore your opponent.

You're the one with no idea.

 

[bzparkes]

He has accounted for that by allowing for contested possessions in the analysis. Eagles still get more than their fair share - next theory?

We don't tackle as much as other clubs which also means we won't high as often as other clubs. Even with the player pinged the most of any in the AFL for HTB (Masten) we still have a positive differential. Our defenders have always been elite pretty much since our inception, hence no need to scrag or chop arms. We've had at least one elite ruckman on our list since Gardiner, which means our rucks get infringed upon more often and we've always had very strong inside midfielders a la Kerr, Priddis et al, who can almost always get first hands in the contest which mean they get held/infringed upon more often.

Conversely our game plan has been an open style for a number of years, which is a massive reason why Freo don't get the same 'favouritism' that we do in Perth. If a team plays a much more contested/hard tackling game plan well it only stands to reason that they're going to give themselves more opportunity to infringe upon the opposition more. This also gets compounded by these high-intensity gameplans which increase player fatigue, part of the reason we were able to come home with a wet sail vs St Kilda on the weekend. Hard to maintain that intensity for 4 quarters.

Or it could be that we simply pay off the umps which seems more reasonable to people who don't know how to actually use an objective analysis on this subject. After all, it's more fun to complain that another team's getting an armchair ride from the umps than consider that their own team is shit at playing within the rules, no?

 

[bzparkes]

Should this even be a thing where AFL players are coached about the rules of the game?

You serious?

 

[bzparkes]

No, by receiving free kicks to provide opportunities to outscore your opponent.

That is one of the dumbest posts I have read on this forum and I've read a lot of them.

 

[Power Raid]

WCE supporters are good at what they do

 

[demondavey]

The AFL try to dictate how they want the game to be played. Umpires get directions from the AFL on how they want the rules to be interpreted. Funnily enough the protected zone has been mostly ignored so far this year. Why are rules ignored some weeks and paid other weeks?

Because the umpires are bombarded with directive about what to do, hence having information overload and getting confused. Gill has to remain relevant somehow.

 

[bzparkes]

Lets have a look at all WCE V Stk games at Ethihad since 2005
This is Free kick count
2005 no game
2006 16-9 Stk
2007 15-15
2008 no game
2009 32-24 WCE
2010 no game
2011 19-11 WCE
2012 no game
2013 22-14 WCE
2014 19-9 WCE
2015 20-12 WCE
2016 no game
So in 5 out of 7 matches against Stk at Ethihad WCE have won the free kick count by similar margins as they get at home. This means that WCE are taking home town umpires and their crowds to games at Ethihad when we play STK

Even though our umpires on the weekend were all Vics, eh?

 

[compact72]

We have always been considered hard and attacking at the ball over that period of time. Funnily enough, that was the justification for so many bulldogs free kicks in last years Grand Final including the three sliding frees that weren't paid to us. So which is it? Hard and attacking earns frees or gives them away?

What sliding? Hope you're not talking about the Wood incident. Wood got Hannebery on the knee, not his leg.

2017



2016



2015


Seems like Sydney have a discipline problem when playing #culture

 

[demondavey]

That is one of the dumbest posts I have read on this forum and I've read a lot of them.

Why would you agree though, seriously? If this was in Melbourne you'd see a different result. Wonder which way the free kick count goes this week for you.

 

[iluvparis]

We don't tackle as much as other clubs which also means we won't high as often as other clubs. Even with the player pinged the most of any in the AFL for HTB (Masten) we still have a positive differential. Our defenders have always been elite pretty much since our inception, hence no need to scrag or chop arms. We've had at least one elite ruckman on our list since Gardiner, which means our rucks get infringed upon more often and we've always had very strong inside midfielders a la Kerr, Priddis et al, who can almost always get first hands in the contest which mean they get held/infringed upon more often.

Conversely our game plan has been an open style for a number of years, which is a massive reason why Freo don't get the same 'favouritism' that we do in Perth. If a team plays a much more contested/hard tackling game plan well it only stands to reason that they're going to give themselves more opportunity to infringe upon the opposition more. This also gets compounded by these high-intensity gameplans which increase player fatigue, part of the reason we were able to come home with a wet sail vs St Kilda on the weekend. Hard to maintain that intensity for 4 quarters.

Or it could be that we simply pay off the umps which seems more reasonable to people who don't know how to actually use an objective analysis on this subject. After all, it's more fun to complain that another team's getting an armchair ride from the umps than consider that their own team is shit at playing within the rules, no?

As I already stated contested possessions and tackles are accounted for in his analysis. So you get more free kicks than you would otherwise expect even GIVEN your game style

 

[bzparkes]

Lets have a look at all WCE V Stk games at Ethihad since 2005
This is Free kick count
2005 no game
2006 16-9 Stk
2007 15-15
2008 no game
2009 32-24 WCE
2010 no game
2011 19-11 WCE
2012 no game
2013 22-14 WCE
2014 19-9 WCE
2015 20-12 WCE
2016 no game
So in 5 out of 7 matches against Stk at Ethihad WCE have won the free kick count by similar margins as they get at home. This means that WCE are taking home town umpires and their crowds to games at Ethihad when we play STK

Why would you agree though, seriously? If this was in Melbourne you'd see a different result. Wonder which way the free kick count goes this week for you.

Read the first quoted post, then read yours and realise that you are wrong. Yep the VIC umpires in our game on the weekend must've also umpired 5 of our last 7 games vs St Kilda at Etihad...

Also who cares which way the free kick count goes as long as we win. I remember a game vs Collingwood a few years back where we got smashed in the free kick count and still won comfortably.

 

[replicant]

i think the problem with umpires and referees and this goes for all sports is that their is a myth that to criticize an umpire is to question his integrity or just sour grapes so we have got to a point where umpires think they are beyond reproach immune to criticism.

That is the problem and it's exasperated when they come out with an absolute howler and during the week the umpire boss comes out and backs the call when everyone can see it was wrong, umpires need to be held more accountable for their performance not coddled and told they are always right.

Spot on. I can't think of a professional sport with quite as many umpiring/officiating errors, and the immunity from scrutiny has been the problem (or at least part of it). Sure people may bag the umps in general, but individuals are immune from media commentary.

Bannister needs to harden up. Players get singled out. Media personalities get singled out. Coaches get singled out. The worst that umpires get is "The umps were terrible". No-one mentions their name, or their past record.

And then you get embarrassing tripe like "whistle blowers" where pretty much all the significant errors from the week's games won't make the show, and everything else gets "We're happy to tick that one off".

And it's not just being a Sydney fan. I turned off the TV during the St Kilda / WC game. The umpiring was so bad i just didn't want to watch it. The Bombers vs Lions was just as bad, where Tipungwiti seemed immune from frees. Too many games now, even neutral games, there are just so many blatant errors which affect the state of play and the result. Umpires shouldn't be affecting the result of games, but far too often it feels they do. And the fact the media is silent about it just infuriates people.

I don't buy the "the game is really hard to umpire" argument either. Every other sport manages to enforce the rules. If it's hard, put more umpires on the field, or give a video ump the power to overrule bad decisions. Everyone adapted to goal reviews without losing their minds over the small delay, and we get the decisions right. I'm sure we could also use a review system for frees in the forward 50. The Player will just be lining up for a shot, there is plenty of time to review the decision. Bad decisions in general play are fine, but bad decisions leading to a goal really affect the game too much.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Good article to read by an ex-umpire amongst all the current talk:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...re-wrong-to-bash-umpires-20170404-gvdu6g.html

"Who would want to be an umpire? They are the punching bags of the AFL. Get on Twitter now and unleash your personal attacks on them.

Retiring from umpiring two months ago has left me with a sense of calm I have not felt in years. I'm no longer the target of the ridiculous phrases directed at my former colleagues: "disgraceful", "back to the VFL", "worst decision of the year".

The worst part about these comments is that they are not just from hot-headed fans; they are the words of respected football experts.

Each year up to about round three, there is hysteria as umpires adjust to the new rules.

Hearing these "experts" discuss free-kick counts is as silly as allowing commentators to bet on AFL games. Do people really expect free-kick counts to be even? Do people expect the result of AFL games to be even? West Coast had a winning percentage of 85 per cent at Subiaco last year and 50 per cent for away games. It is a fact that they play more effectively at Subiaco. So is it really that surprising that their free-kick count could be more favourable at home?

Sometimes a winning team will win the free-kick count because they are first to the ball and draw more free kicks. Sometimes a winning team will lose the free-kick count because they are more aggressive and fired up. No game is the same and nor should a free-kick count be.

I've officiated at every AFL venue and I can assure you that most of the time you don't hear the noise of the crowd until the decision is made. The whistle is already at the umpire's mouth by the time the sound reaches your ears. If there is subconsciously one per cent of influence by the home crowd, then deal with it. You have employed humans, not robots. These guys are the most elite umpires in the country with 100 per cent integrity.... CONTINUED"

Interesting to hear some of the training they do

MOST FREE KICKS 2017 - TEAMS
1. Port Adelaide 48

2. Western Bulldogs 47

2. Sydney 47

2. Essendon 47

5. North Melbourne 45

6. Gold Coast 44

6. Brisbane Lions 44

8. Carlton 43

9. Collingwood 42

10. GWS 41

11. Fremantle 40

11. Melbourne 40

13. West Coast 39

14. Hawthorn 38

14. Geelong 38

16. Richmond 33

16. Adelaide 33

18. St Kilda 28

Plugger35

 

[bzparkes]

As I already stated contested possessions and tackles are accounted for in his analysis. So you get more free kicks than you would otherwise expect even GIVEN your game style

So where are these frees coming from then? you could go back to my points on ruck contests and defenders giving away minimal frees, or are you just going to dispute that too and come up with no argument other than hometown bias? If that's the case why do we have plenty of games interstate where we also come out better off in free kick counts, yet highly contested style of teams don't?

 

[skipper kelly]

You serious?

You reckon players that make it to the top competition in the sport would know the rules and wouldn't need to be coached about them. The point is that the rules and interpretations change so much that players have to be coached about the rules and that is an indictment on the league.

 

[Beutbrute]

Yeah, and how did you 'win' 3 quarters mate?

We had 60 more disposals, more inside 50's, more marks inside 50, more contested possessions more uncontested possessions, but ignore all that and blame the umpires

 

[iluvparis]

So where are these frees coming from then? you could go back to my points on ruck contests and defenders giving away minimal frees, or are you just going to dispute that too and come up with no argument other than hometown bias? If that's the case why do we have plenty of games interstate where we also come out better off in free kick counts, yet highly contested style of teams don't?

The data also accounts for location. And you actually don't outperform your expected free kick count away from home despite your claims.

The reason I think location is the telling factor is it is guaranteed not to have changed over the last 17 years. I think your kidding yourself if your gameplan defenders etc has also been identical over that same period