Umpiring moves

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bedford said:
They are not the problem, its the fields.
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Well! The VAFA is extracting significant sums from the clubs in affiliation fees and ploughing most of it into umpiring so they are obliged to provide goal umpires as well as fieldies and boundaries for all senior games in my view. Club officials should not be adjudicating senior matches.

If our two nearest local comps can fill their rosters each week, we should too.
 
AM said:
Well! The VAFA is extracting significant sums from the clubs in affiliation fees and ploughing most of it into umpiring so they are obliged to provide goal umpires as well as fieldies and boundaries for all senior games in my view. Club officials should not be adjudicating senior matches.

If our two nearest local comps can fill their rosters each week, we should too.
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The VAFA fills the top 3 divisions every week, just as those competitions do, its not hard when you only have 3 divisions!

But the VAFA would love to fill every game with goalies and boundaries, if you have some ideas where to find them they would love to hear from you!

They do a good job, the top 3 divisions are filled, the U/19s are used for new umpires to learn the ropes and the rest get sent to games close to home. Obviously Ormond is probably spoiled being close to HQ they probably always get full compliments at home, but when they travel they might have to learn to take one with them!

Some clubs in Division 1 would be lucky to get goal or boundary umpires for more than 1 of their home games every year and they have provided plenty to the VAFA
 
Navyblues09 said:
The VAFA fills the top 3 divisions every week, just as those competitions do, its not hard when you only have 3 divisions!

But the VAFA would love to fill every game with goalies and boundaries, if you have some ideas where to find them they would love to hear from you!

They do a good job, the top 3 divisions are filled, the U/19s are used for new umpires to learn the ropes and the rest get sent to games close to home. Obviously Ormond is probably spoiled being close to HQ they probably always get full compliments at home, but when they travel they might have to learn to take one with them!

Some clubs in Division 1 would be lucky to get goal or boundary umpires for more than 1 of their home games every year and they have provided plenty to the VAFA
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Being close to headquarters has nothing to do with it. It was a showpiece on Saturday with St Mary's putting on 4 games.
 

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What a load of crap.
D1 sides contribute a fraction of the subs that a Premier A side does. As such, they at times need to provide umpires.
If you want a full compliment of umpires in the lower grades, pay equal subs or get yourself out of the divisions.

I really think that you underestimate how hard it is to "appoint more umpires" or in other threads have suggested to "have an emergency umpire at every Premier game on standby". If clubs foot this bill then anything can happen but before you start taking pot shots, worry about your own sides kicking ability and not the umpires.
 
Babyface1990 said:
What a load of crap.
D1 sides contribute a fraction of the subs that a Premier A side does. As such, they at times need to provide umpires.
If you want a full compliment of umpires in the lower grades, pay equal subs or get yourself out of the divisions.

I really think that you underestimate how hard it is to "appoint more umpires" or in other threads have suggested to "have an emergency umpire at every Premier game on standby". If clubs foot this bill then anything can happen but before you start taking pot shots, worry about your own sides kicking ability and not the umpires.
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FWIW head office has spoken...
 
Navyblues09 said:
The VAFA fills the top 3 divisions every week, just as those competitions do, its not hard when you only have 3 divisions!

But the VAFA would love to fill every game with goalies and boundaries, if you have some ideas where to find them they would love to hear from you!

They do a good job, the top 3 divisions are filled, the U/19s are used for new umpires to learn the ropes and the rest get sent to games close to home. Obviously Ormond is probably spoiled being close to HQ they probably always get full compliments at home, but when they travel they might have to learn to take one with them!

Some clubs in Division 1 would be lucky to get goal or boundary umpires for more than 1 of their home games every year and they have provided plenty to the VAFA
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It's true they are smaller comps. It's also true they fill their rosters for firsts, reserves, thirds and unders most weekends. So no club can consider themselves short changed when it comes to value for their affiliation fees.

I agree it's too bigger 'ask' for the VAFA to fill all those rosters for a number of valid reasons. However, when affiliation fees are quite high even for lower grade clubs - the major proportion of which is directed to the umpiring fraternity - and the VAFA doesn't complete its most important service to clubs by providing full rosters of umpiring officials to all senior games then at the very least there should be some form of recompense for their failure to fulfil that obligation.

My understanding is that club officials asked to adjudicate goal umpiring decisions aren't even required to have the most basic formal training.

The umpiring group is quite well resourced with a senior executive still hands-on, a full time administrator and one who is part-time as well as a considerable number of coaches. Yet the lower grades are still not getting full value for money as I see it.
 
It's not all rosy in the other comps. Yes they may have full complements but how good are they? The fieldies I saw on the weekend would be lucky to get a gig in D4, and that isn't sour grapes. Two scores were affected by umpire errors, and this in a game with no more than a kick in it for most of the match. If we'd lost by less than ten points...
 
AM said:
It's true they are smaller comps. It's also true they fill their rosters for firsts, reserves, thirds and unders most weekends. So no club can consider themselves short changed when it comes to value for their affiliation fees.

I agree it's too bigger 'ask' for the VAFA to fill all those rosters for a number of valid reasons. However, when affiliation fees are quite high even for lower grade clubs - the major proportion of which is directed to the umpiring fraternity - and the VAFA doesn't complete its most important service to clubs by providing full rosters of umpiring officials to all senior games then at the very least there should be some form of recompense for their failure to fulfil that obligation.

My understanding is that club officials asked to adjudicate goal umpiring decisions aren't even required to have the most basic formal training.

The umpiring group is quite well resourced with a senior executive still hands-on, a full time administrator and one who is part-time as well as a considerable number of coaches. Yet the lower grades are still not getting full value for money as I see it.
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There is no bigger comp in Australia than the VAFA!
 
bedford said:
I understand that in D1 you might have to get a goal umpire like Saturday. My gripe was with the Fields, one doing his 3rd game for the day and the other was very late and made some terrible decisions either way.
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No club should have to hand a white coat, score card and two flags to absolute novices, Bedders. In any event, people associated with clubs shouldn't be adjudicating at senior level in my view.

Frankly, I blame the predicament on people like OTP who retired way to prematurely leaving folk like pazza to carry the load.:D
 

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bedford said:
Back on the umps, how bad was the lay out for the umps appointments last week. The week before was fine, so why change.
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It was poor.

I generally head to the VAFAUA website where the layout is usually fine.

While on the VAFA website, there have been some improvements in the latest version. Easier to navigate and the live scores actually functioned well on Saturday. Be nice to get the ressies scores too though.
 
AM said:
No club should have to hand a white coat, score card and two flags to absolute novices, Bedders. In any event, people associated with clubs shouldn't be adjudicating at senior level in my view.

Frankly, I blame the predicament on people like OTP who retired way to prematurely leaving folk like pazza to carry the load.:D
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Someone check my shoulders....
 
It would be wonderful to see umpires in every position in every grade, and thats aspirational - but its a while off yet. The fine tradition of running around looking for someone to don the white coat will be with us for a while longer. Goal umpire recruitment has been astronomical - but you can't put a 14 year old in their first game in a senior match. He or she would be eaten alive. There aren't that many old fieldies 'retiring' to the goals these days (AD being an exception - but then he's always been an exception).

AM - The VAFA don't just take a percentage of the affiliation fee and hand it to the umpiring fraternity. The cost of umpiring comes out of those fees, and the rest is retained by the VAFA. The lack of umpires in every position is taken into account in those fees btw - if every grade was filled with a full panel every week, the fees would need to go up significantly to support that. Are the clubs in D4 prepared for such an increase?

Match location is a significant issue. Have a look at the boundary/goal umpire demographic. While you can expect the top grade umpires to travel, if you insist on the young boundaries and young/not so young goalies going to matches far from home, they'll just find a league closer. The VAFA has lost more than a few umpires that way.

Think of the VAFA as a communist world - every team in D1 shares the umpire payment load equally - its just that some teams do better out of the allocations.
 
KoDsAssistant said:
It would be wonderful to see umpires in every position in every grade, and thats aspirational - but its a while off yet. The fine tradition of running around looking for someone to don the white coat will be with us for a while longer. Goal umpire recruitment has been astronomical - but you can't put a 14 year old in their first game in a senior match. He or she would be eaten alive. There aren't that many old fieldies 'retiring' to the goals these days (AD being an exception - but then he's always been an exception).

AM - The VAFA don't just take a percentage of the affiliation fee and hand it to the umpiring fraternity. The cost of umpiring comes out of those fees, and the rest is retained by the VAFA. The lack of umpires in every position is taken into account in those fees btw - if every grade was filled with a full panel every week, the fees would need to go up significantly to support that. Are the clubs in D4 prepared for such an increase?

Match location is a significant issue. Have a look at the boundary/goal umpire demographic. While you can expect the top grade umpires to travel, if you insist on the young boundaries and young/not so young goalies going to matches far from home, they'll just find a league closer. The VAFA has lost more than a few umpires that way.

Think of the VAFA as a communist world - every team in D1 shares the umpire payment load equally - its just that some teams do better out of the allocations.
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Thank you for that courteous and thoughtful post.

Your last remark was instructive. That being "....its just that some teams do better out of the allocations" which in many ways goes to the heart of my remarks. Despite what an earlier poster said DI firsts and reserves pay of the order of $10,000 p.a in affiliation fees and Prem 'C' of the order of $11,500 p.a in affiliation fees. Not a huge disparity, yet Prem 'C' seniors generally get the full roster of umpires, D1 and lower grades rarely do. If the V.A.F.A can't regularly fulfil their main service obligation then I think it's reasonable in those circumstances they get some recompense.

Frankly, I would much prefer a young goal umpire who has been taught positioning skills, decision making, communication and cooperation, reading the game, recording scores et al than a club novice who stations him or herself behind the line with little to no knowledge of the skills and with the risk of partisan decisions.

I think my last reading of the VAFA Annual Report had an amount approaching 70% of affiliation fees being allocated to the umpiring fraternity. With the prudent use of that sum and some trimming of funds for some other ventures such as Ireland trips I frankly don't see why affiliation fees would need to be hiked. After all our fees are generally quite high as I understand it and was one of the considerations for Bentleigh returning to the SFL.

I fully appreciate it's an onerous task recruiting and holding umpires and the logistics associated with the size and breadth of the VAFA adds to the difficulty

Just think that it's unfair three divisions get approaching full value for their affiliation fees whereas the rest don't and consequently some sort of equalisation should be put in place.

It's not something that is going to be resolved on a forum of this sort so maybe it's time for us to lighten up.
 
How much do goal umps get per game in D1 ? Cant be much id have thought..

In recent years more effort has gone into providing clubs with full complements of umps in 19s as the volunteers around a 19s game is less than around senior and reserves footy... As the comp grows HQ will need to spend more money on recruitment .. My club has benefited very well from the extra umps provided to 19s footy .. it was only 15 ish years ago thaty club is I the lower grades and bacl then it was ZERO boundary and goals you only got them once you got to B grade.. now its down to C and most of D with sparterings in D2 to D4 & most 19 get somewhat full compliment.. Umpiring seems to be growing fast and it will need to keep growing..
 
TheArmy said:
How much do goal umps get per game in D1 ? Cant be much id have thought..

In recent years more effort has gone into providing clubs with full complements of umps in 19s as the volunteers around a 19s game is less than around senior and reserves footy... As the comp grows HQ will need to spend more money on recruitment .. My club has benefited very well from the extra umps provided to 19s footy .. it was only 15 ish years ago thaty club is I the lower grades and bacl then it was ZERO boundary and goals you only got them once you got to B grade.. now its down to C and most of D with sparterings in D2 to D4 & most 19 get somewhat full compliment.. Umpiring seems to be growing fast and it will need to keep growing..
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It's about $70 or so these days. Not exactly a lot, but, a nice little earner.

The location discussion above is an interesting point.

I look at myself.

Living out here in the west, if I was doing local games every week, Point Cook, Westbourne, Pegs, Therry, St. Bernards and Williamstown would be regular.

And outside of Point Cook, I have done them all more than once over the journey. It's only been the fact i have been in the top 20/30 that has seen me in the Albert Park, Melbourne Uni/Fitzroy and Bulleen/Ivanhoe precincts. there has been the sprinkle of eastern and south eastern as i don't min d where the games are, I'm happy with whatever I get.
 
pazza said:
It's about $70 or so these days. Not exactly a lot, but, a nice little earner.

The location discussion above is an interesting point.

I look at myself.

Living out here in the west, if I was doing local games every week, Point Cook, Westbourne, Pegs, Therry, St. Bernards and Williamstown would be regular.

And outside of Point Cook, I have done them all more than once over the journey. It's only been the fact i have been in the top 20/30 that has seen me in the Albert Park, Melbourne Uni/Fitzroy and Bulleen/Ivanhoe precincts. there has been the sprinkle of eastern and south eastern as i don't min d where the games are, I'm happy with whatever I get.
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Reserve Grade umpires get over $90 bucks a game. A senior grade umpire would bet around $120. $360 to $480 a month that the "darl" doesn't know about never hurts.

Max "retired too soon" Leader
 
bedford said:
Yes, our bloke has been doing the Ressies for years for nothing, absolute legend of the club. Our boundary gets a few bucks as he's a student, but not much.
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All C Grade Reserve and above go into a pool and are allocated games other than their own clubs (usually). They are paid $over 90 bucks a game.
 
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