Umpiring

[HFF]

I'm sorry but the ball was well and truly out of play and was correctly called against Thomas. I don't know what you were watching but the TV commentators said it was out and the TV replay wella nd truly showed it was clearly out of play.

And the McLeod decision was not a game deciding one.

The game defining moment was Douglas and his heroics in the last few minutes on the goal line, and Collingwood being outplayed and making way too many crucial errors (Swan fumbling in the last few minutes running into an open goal lost it for you). If Adelaide kicked straight Collingwood would have lost by 5 or 6 goals. Yes it ended close but the umpires DID NOT effect the result.

Wrong.

Adelaide had 5 more scoring shots than us, correct.

However, do not count McLeod from the boundary, or Knights on his right boot as genuine shots.

The footage is inconclusive as to whether Thomas was in or out. Decision goes the other way, Pies win.

Tyson Edwards, dropping the ball, receives a free kick, cheap clearance, Adelaide goal.

Scott Stevens, receives a free kick for hands in the back when it was body on body, 15m out, goal.

Douglas buries his head into a tackle, too high, free kick, goal.

Cox running out of half back, kick is clearly touched/smothered, paid as an Adelaide mark, Didak tackles, 50m penalty, goal.

Paul Medhurst marks, set to line up for goal, judged to have push out with his leg, free kick and 50m against.

These are game defining moments.

Particularly the goals Adelaide kicked as a result of these free kicks when Pies were running away with it in the 3rd and in the last when the game was in the balance.

Taking nothing away from Adelaide but Pies win quite comfortably if you take out all these decisions, despite playing quite poorly.

 

[smiddaz123]

Medhurst didn't mark the ball when the free was paid for using his leg.

 

[leondavis21]

Re: Justin Schmitt, don't pronounce the "M"

If I saw this guy in the street I'd do some damage to him. He is a cheat and that's all to it. We played perry crap in the 1st quarter but In the third when we had all momentum, that prick single handly got them back in the game. And in the last, well what can I say!!

 

[Dave The Man]

Re: Justin Schmitt, don't pronounce the "M"

If I saw this guy in the street I'd do some damage to him. He is a cheat and that's all to it. We played perry crap in the 1st quarter but In the third when we had all momentum, that prick single handly got them back in the game. And in the last, well what can I say!!

Wonder how much money he won

 

[Heater39]

Not so. We smashed Richmond in the NAB Cup despite being down 22-6 in the free kick count. It repeated itself against Geelong when we couldn't buy a free kick, but frankly they were first to the ball all night and I barely noticed the umpires.

Today, however, when Adelaide were dominant they were playing uncontested footy, and so rarely were free kicks warranted. However when Collingwood went one-on-one and were consistently first to the ball, along with lifting our tackle count, we still got absolutely r*ped by the umpires.

I find it laughable that people are being chastised for stating the bleedingly obvious; the umpires were the difference today. With an even run from the umpires we would have won by about 4-5 goals, perhaps less if Adelaide kicked straighter. That's not being ungracious, that's just as plain as day to anyone watching the match. Yes, we should have played better, manned up earlier, fumbled less, made better decisions... and even so the better side on the day lost. Them's the facts.

How on earth is that a fact?

I'm sick of this victim mentality that we've built up, a good deal of that courtesy of Malthouse. We make excuses every time we lose.

How about we focus on the things in our control.

But no, we simply choose to blame all our close games on the umpiring. E.g. Brisbane and North last year.

 

[that_dood]

The footage is inconclusive as to whether Thomas was in or out. Decision goes the other way, Pies win.

Tyson Edwards, dropping the ball, receives a free kick, cheap clearance, Adelaide goal.

Scott Stevens, receives a free kick for hands in the back when it was body on body, 15m out, goal.

Douglas buries his head into a tackle, too high, free kick, goal.

Cox running out of half back, kick is clearly touched/smothered, paid as an Adelaide mark, Didak tackles, 50m penalty, goal.

Paul Medhurst marks, set to line up for goal, judged to have push out with his leg, free kick and 50m against.

These are game defining moments.

Particularly the goals Adelaide kicked as a result of these free kicks when Pies were running away with it in the 3rd and in the last when the game was in the balance.

Taking nothing away from Adelaide but Pies win quite comfortably if you take out all these decisions, despite playing quite poorly.

The Thomas one was as clear as a Perth sky!!! How can that one even come close to being used as an excuse for your teams' poor tactics and lack of ability to hit targets.

The Medhurst one was a correct decision and the commentators on Fox said so and the replays showed that he pushed in the back. 50 was paid like every other time it is paid in every game of the AFL season.

You can't say the umps were involved in the 3rd quarter when Adelaide came back. That was purely McLeod's genius and run through the middle to hit targets. All legitimate goals which got us back to level the scores.

All day long you let players run through the middle of the ground and you paid for it. Adelaide were the better team by far.

I can't be bothered going on as I am talking to a brick wall on this forum. The umpires thread comes up every time there is a Pies loss and you guys stick by that argument as a defense for losing. Maybe you will realise that you were beaten by a better team and that the umpires were poor both ways.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

How about we focus on the things in our control.

But no, we simply choose to blame all our close games on the umpiring. E.g. Brisbane and North last year.

You'll notice that in threads not directly related to the pathetic umpiring, I've mentioned that said umpiring was only one of the factors that resulted in our loss. Clearly, had we adapted to the first-quarter zone, not fumbled at critical times, selected a more balanced side etc. etc. we also would have won. However this thread concerns umpiring specifically.

 

[hotpie]

The umpiring was shocking all day. I'm still sctarching my head about the Cloke 50 metre penalty (and the free for that matter!!!) as well as the free against Presti. Both those poor decisions gave goals to Adelaide.

The Medhurst free denied us a Thomas goal.

 

[hotpie]

The umpires thread comes up every time there is a Pies loss

No it doesnt.

 

[GreekLunatic]

Ok the umpiring was crap but we should move on. One thing the AFL can do is remove that **** head Gieschen from the umpires boss. Since he has been appointed most supporters get confused with the interpretations.

 

[kevind]

Stop blaming anyone but our own club. Did the umpires makes us select Toovey and Ben Johnso? Do the umpires make us go via the boundry line, make us miss simple targets by foot?

Until this club learns to accept the blame for its shortcomings it will get no where!

Joy to the world. A fellow Collingwood supporter with the right attitude. Until we eliminate this losing culture of blaming the umpires everytime we lose, we will wallow in a losing culture that has plagued the club for 50 years.

Umpires are irrelevant to any team's success or failure over a season. There will be some good decisions, some bad ones. Winners just get on with their job, they don't wallow in excuses.

Well said, Morgoth.

 

[hotpie]

Adelaide were the better team by far..

No,it was a tight game that started and ended in Adelaide's favour while Collingwood dominated the middle period. In the end the umpiring in front of goals affected the result.

 

[Pie Warmer]

I am getting to the point of not watching footy anymore simply because of the way the game is over-officiated. We can argue till we are blue in the face whether the umpires have an influence on the outcome of a game or not and whether Collingwood are hard done by. Personally, I think the umpires DO have too much influence on the game, not just on the outcome. They are now blowing the whistle and making decisions based on the most rediculous, petty offence, which, in the spirit of the game is ruining our once great sport. For all us Pies supporters who believe the umpires are on a mission to bend us over each week, let me make the point based on statistical fact we have been getting a raw deal from the umpires in 2008 and that trend certainly appears to be continuing in 2009. The graph below are stats from the 2008 Season which clearly show Collingwood had the 3rd lowest Free kick count and the lowest Average Free kick "For".

 

[DoubleO7]

I am getting to the point of not watching footy anymore simply because of the way the game is over-officiated. We can argue till we are blue in the face whether the umpires have an influence on the outcome of a game or not and whether Collingwood are hard done by. Personally, I think the umpires DO have too much influence on the game, not just on the outcome. They are now blowing the whistle and making decisions based on the most rediculous, petty offence, which, in the spirit of the game is ruining our once great sport. For all us Pies supporters who believe the umpires are on a mission to bend us over each week, let me make the point based on statistical fact we have been getting a raw deal from the umpires in 2009 and that trend certainly appears to be continuing in 2009. The graph below are stats from the 2008 which clearlty show Collingwood had the 3rd lowest Free kick count "For" and the lowest Average Free kick "For".

Please edit this line so it makes more sense. Excellent post by the way.

 

[that_dood]

Ok the umpiring was crap but we should move on. One thing the AFL can do is remove that **** head Gieschen from the umpires boss. Since he has been appointed most supporters get confused with the interpretations.

That is the biggest problem. The consistency and the over application of the rules. The way the holding the ball was paid today both ways was atrocious. How can Petrenko be pinged when he is tackled at the same time he picks it up on the half volley???

 

[KissStephanie]

I find it laughable that people are being chastised for stating the bleedingly obvious; the umpires were the difference today.

Collingwood were definitely disappointing, and Adelaide played about as good as they can play in my opinion, but despite that, there is no doubt that the umpires decided the result in the end.

Free Kick count 18-14, no incorrect decision in the last quarter effected the match, so therefor the umpires had no effect on the match.....

What does the total free kick count have to do with this? They had more free kicks, and at least a couple of the bad decisions were not free kicks. Andrew McLeod was paid a mark when the ball had been smothered by two hands. He was then handed a free 50 metre penalty for nothing which resulted in a goal.

Neither of those two bad decisions are counted in the free kick total. Dale Thomas kicked a goal that appears to have been incorrectly called out of bounds according to a number of people that are neither Collingwood or Adelaide supporters. That decision is also not included in the free kick total.

I'm sorry but the ball was well and truly out of play and was correctly called against Thomas.

No it wasn't. It was incorrectly called out of bounds.

And the McLeod decision was not a game deciding one. The game defining moment was Douglas and his heroics in the last few minutes on the goal line

The McLeod decision definitely decided the match more than the the "Douglas heroics." It was a gift goal. Take that from the score and Collingwood wins.

Collingwood being outplayed and making way too many crucial errors (Swan fumbling in the last few minutes running into an open goal lost it for you).

Look, I said that Adelaide were the better team, and that Collingwood were terribly disappointing. That does not mean that Adelaide should be awarded the match by crucial umpiring decisions. Good teams find a way to win when they play poorly, but a number of umpiring decisions prevented any chance of that happening.

I am aware that Swan should have goaled at the nine minute mark of the final quarter, and it a was critical blunder. I can live with my team making making mistakes though, as disappointing as that is. Umpires making mistakes that directly effect the result is a different matter though.

If Adelaide kicked straight Collingwood would have lost by 5 or 6 goals.

This thread is about umpiring, and not about whether either team wasted their opportunities. What did the umpiring have to do with that? Adelaide had four more scoring shots, and partly because they were given extra shots at goal by bad umpiring. That does not suggest to me in the slightest that they would have won by 5-6 goals.

Dane Swan dropped the ball in the goal square which is a miss that is not even recorded. Dropping the ball when running into an open goal, and bad kicking are mistakes I can accept because the team only have themselves to blame, but critical umpiring decisions that aided Adelaide by directly resulting in goals is a different matter.

Yes it ended close but the umpires DID NOT effect the result.

BULL-DUST! There has been far too many supporters from opposition clubs that also agree that the umpiring directly effected the result. I believe that any one of a number of bad decisions would have reversed the result.

Even your own supporters are saying that Collingwood were outplayed and outcoahed and that the umpires did not effect the result.

Who has said that? I have seen a number of posts that agree that there were a number of bad umpiring decisions. I have also seen a number of posts that said that Collingwood played badly, which I agree with. I haven't seen many, if any, posts that have said that the umping decisions did not have a direct effect on the result. In fact, you need to read the gameday thread as there are a number of opposition supporters that also agree that the umpiring effected the result.

Stop blaming anyone but our own club. Did the umpires makes us select Toovey and Ben Johnso? Do the umpires make us go via the boundry line, make us miss simple targets by foot?

This is ridiculous. There is no doubt that Collingwood made mistakes and played poorly, which was terribly disappointing, but since when does that mean that Adelaide should be awarded the match by bad umpiring decisions? It is fair and reasonable to blame both the poor performance on the team, and to acknowledge the dreadful umpiring decisions that had a direct effect on the result. Good sides win when they play poorly, and I have no doubt that this would have occurred if it wasn't for some horrid umpiring decisions.

 

[FuManchu]

Its always the umpires!

LOL

The first resort of so many at Collingwood is the externalise the blame.

The team has 120 minutes to make sure the match result goes their way. Forget the number of times that umps get it wrong becuase they get it wrong both ways. It balances out over time. We have won matches in the past because of poor umpiring. We lost the match when we allowed the crows to take our momentum from us. That had nothing to do with the umpires, it had everything to do with a lack of will, structural deficiencies, players that just arent up to it, not to mention skill errors and a game plan that didnt adapt.

But we have heard it all before and its so much easer to protect glorified individuals at the club than it is to look internally and demand change at a lot of levels. Heaven forbid we ever question the club, we just keep putting money in and allowing garbage out in return!

 

[that_dood]

No it wasn't. It was incorrectly called out of bounds.

You keep thinking that. You are the only person to bring this up when everyone else including the biased Victorian media and fellow Collingwood posters clearly saw the ball go out. Your black and white glasses are clouding your vision one may think.

You need to realise mate that most of the Collingwood fans have accepted that the umpires had a shocking day but Collingwood themselves were outplayed and outcoached and the umpires don't have anything to do with that.

EDIT: Read the post above me. That is the best post on this thread so far. Don't just reply with the same crap one-eyed "The umpires lost us the game" sh*t that have clogged up this thread.

 

[kevind]

Its always the umpires!

LOL

The first resort of so many at Collingwood is the externalise the blame.

The team has 120 minutes to make sure the match result goes their way. Forget the number of times that umps get it wrong becuase they get it wrong both ways. It balances out over time. We have won matches in the past because of poor umpiring. We lost the match when we allowed the crows to take our momentum from us. That had nothing to do with the umpires, it had everything to do with a lack of will, structural deficiencies, players that just arent up to it, not to mention skill errors and a game plan that didnt adapt.

But we have heard it all before and its so much easer to protect glorified individuals at the club than it is to look internally and demand change at a lot of levels. Heaven forbid we ever question the club, we just keep putting money in and allowing garbage out in return!

Once again Fu, well said.

 

[Rocket23]

You keep thinking that. You are the only person to bring this up when everyone else including the biased Victorian media and fellow Collingwood posters clearly saw the ball go out. Your black and white glasses are clouding your vision one may think.

You need to realise mate that most of the Collingwood fans have accepted that the umpires had a shocking day but Collingwood themselves were outplayed and outcoached and the umpires don't have anything to do with that.

EDIT: Read the post above me. That is the best post on this thread so far. Don't just reply with the same crap one-eyed "The umpires lost us the game" sh*t that have clogged up this thread.

Definately agree with this part. Craig must have been grinning from ear to ear when he saw McLeod running around as your loose man.

 

[Tish]

You blokes had your chances, you lost the game through errors. Stop blaming anything else.

 

[DoubleO7]

You blokes had your chances, you lost the game through errors. Stop blaming anything else.

A Carlton supporters input on the Collingwood board is not and never will be wanted, especially after a loss such as this one.

 

[KissStephanie]

You keep thinking that.

I've stopped reading your posts at this point. I have no intention of going around and around. If you want to think that the umpiring did not have a direct effect on the result, then maybe there are a number of threads about that on the main AFL board instead of trolling the Collingwood board. By the way, you should read the gameday thread where there are a number of opposition supporters that agree that a number of umpiring decisions had a direct effect on the result of the match.

You blokes had your chances, you lost the game through errors. Stop blaming anything else.

What is it with these trolls that fail to read the posts? Yes Collingwood played poorly and made mistakes. No doubt about it. That does not give the umpires the right to award the match to Adelaide though. Good teams win when they play poorly and that would have happened in this match if it wasn't for a number of dreadful umpiring decisions that directly effected the result of the match.

 

[Old Spice]

Umpiring was absolutely disgraceful. Only a simpleton can suggest that in a game lost by 4 points, umpiring decisions which gifted Adelaide two goals didn't matter. Yes, plenty of brain farts from Collingwood and an insipid first quarter, but the umpiring effected the result and the flow.

Intervention in the economy, yes, intervention in the game by sh1t pettifoggers, no. Effluent.

 

[Gymnorhina tibic]

Re: Justin Schmitt, don't pronounce the "M"

There were 3 Crows goals that were a result of umpiring mistakes, I don't think it was deliberate but it is poor form and they should be dropped just like a player who has a bad one. The Crows were the better team today and deserved the win - Pies need to improve on that performance and they will.