Under The Pump

[drakeyv2]

I reckon the following 15 players have either due to form or fitness just 22 rounds in which to impress to keep their spots. The other players on the list would be given another chance if they have a bad year this year.

The criteria is that they are under 30. Anyone over 30 is already a year to year proposition.

Begley
Biglands
Bode
Doughty
Krueger
Ladhams
Massie
Mattner
Perrie
Schuback
Shirley
Skipworth
Smith
S. Stevens
M. Stevens

 

[arrowman]

That's a fair enough list; I'm guessing some will want to add Bock and much as I am a supporter of the lad, I suppose he'll have to take at least a small step forward in 2005; OTOH there will be a few in the lineup ahead of him come the end of the season I'd say. In other words, Bock would only join the list if more than half those guys "make it" and they can afford to cut a bit deeper.

I think Doughty, Massie and Perrie are safer than most; their worst has been still OK and adding value to the (limited) depth of the team. I would say that all other things being equal they are more likely to survive than someone like Ladhams, say. (anti-Doughty crowd please don't lynch me!)

I think this is a bit of a "good news, bad news" list.
- The bad news is, if a serious number of those guys don't "make it" it will set us back because we'll have that much more deadwood to cut and replace.
- The good news is, there's a decent amount of (potential) value on that list and if half of them at least can step up, we're looking a lot better.

 

[- PC -]

To be quite honest and if we do a fair assessment all 41 on the list should be looked at. We had our ''oh they were held back by Ayres'' excuses now this year should be desperation time for everyone.

Its a business and these guys can make a lot of money and if they dont perform they dont carry on

 

[Cap]

what i find quite funny is that we have a go at Doughty and co because they are 24+ and hanve't made it, yet we are ready to blow the horn of a 26 year old in hudson

Doughty for midfield 05 !!

 

[conVINCEd]

I agree with all of those, and I'd add Bock as well.

We seriously have to start looking at our list in terms of what it will look like in 3-5 years, because that is when we should be challenging for a premiership.

 

[Mad Dog]

I reckon the following 15 players have either due to form or fitness just 22 rounds in which to impress to keep their spots. The other players on the list would be given another chance if they have a bad year this year.

The criteria is that they are under 30. Anyone over 30 is already a year to year proposition.

Begley
Biglands
Bode
Doughty
Krueger
Ladhams
Massie
Mattner
Perrie
Schuback
Shirley
Skipworth
Smith
S. Stevens
M. Stevens

a fair enough list....a few comments
Perrie seems fairly safe at the club.
I would add Burton, Torney, Bock, and Jericho to this list

one way or another....we still have a lot of work in front of us as far as list management is concerned

 

[jo172]

Fair list, Torney should probably be added and if Mathew Clarke isn't on the list I don't think Mark Stevens should be either as neither will hang around too longer.

Kind of distressing really, we could of delisted everyone of those players at the end of last season after all most of them had done as ******** all as J. Gallagher!

 

[jakey]

I reckon the following 15 players have either due to form or fitness just 22 rounds in which to impress to keep their spots. The other players on the list would be given another chance if they have a bad year this year.

The criteria is that they are under 30. Anyone over 30 is already a year to year proposition.

Begley
Biglands
Bode
Doughty
Krueger
Ladhams
Massie
Mattner
Perrie
Schuback
Shirley
Skipworth
Smith
S. Stevens
M. Stevens

Not trolling, please don't interpret it as such, but when you look at the AFC list in that way, it looks a bit bleak doesn't it. Thats a lot of the crows 20-25 year olds - the age bracket of players that will be leading the club in 2-3 yrs time. Should Craig have taken more of a Pagan approach to the crows list at the end of last year...or should he this year??

 

[Cap]

we must remember that Pagan after delisting a bunch of 20 odd years olds then recruited the same amount of delisted 20 odd yr olds

so really just cause your 24+ doesnt mean your past it - maybe Craig feels he can use the players differently just the same way Pagan felt he could use other Delisted players

 

[jakey]

we must remember that Pagan after delisting a bunch of 20 odd years olds then recruited the same amount of delisted 20 odd yr olds

so really just cause your 24+ doesnt mean your past it - maybe Craig feels he can use the players differently just the same way Pagan felt he could use other Delisted players

True enough. They may well turn out to be guns given a new coach and fresh enthusiasm. Maybe i'll give craig a few weeks before i think about jumping on his case

 

[arrowman]

Not trolling, please don't interpret it as such, but when you look at the AFC list in that way, it looks a bit bleak doesn't it.

Oh, there are problems, no doubt. But let's not say "bleak"

Thats a lot of the crows 20-25 year olds - the age bracket of players that will be leading the club in 2-3 yrs time. Should Craig have taken more of a Pagan approach to the crows list at the end of last year...or should he this year??

Last year we delisted one player and we had 5 draft picks. Any more delistings and we would have been trying to replace them with draft picks at around 80+; probably not good value. Especially when at least some of the players listed can and should be resurrected under a new coach, game plan etc - only problem is, we don't know which ones

(Not to mention contract constraints)

So at the end of 2005 we will know the answer on the players listed above, we will probably delist quite a few in addition to an expected 2 retirements (Clarke, M Stevens I would say).

 

[Bockchoy67]

Pretty good list. Add Bock and its just about right.

Looking at that endless list on names, it seems that there will be a fair amount of delistings compared to previous years.

Unfortunately, given the sheer lack of depth of squad contains, we cannot afford to get rid of too many players. I reckon at least 3 will go by the end of the year, but if we delist too many, then our depth will become even more frail, especially due to the required, and time-consuming, development of our recent draft picks (especially Gibson, Maric, Griffen and Watts).

Therefore guys like Perrie and Biglands will probably keep their spot because they are overall important to the team. Guys like Ladhams and Massie will struggle to stay on the list because

A: They are not in our best 22 (at this stage).
And
B: They are not overly important to the foundations, and success, of the team.

 

[jakey]

Oh, there are problems, no doubt. But let's not say "bleak"

Where's the fun if I can't be melodramatic?

Last year we delisted one player and we had 5 draft picks. Any more delistings and we would have been trying to replace them with draft picks at around 80+; probably not good value. Especially when at least some of the players listed can and should be resurrected under a new coach, game plan etc - only problem is, we don't know which ones

Agree, though perhaps a few more trades could've been attempted - is it worth persisting with the likes of biglands and perrie? Could you have got something for them? Second round draft picks?

(Not to mention contract constraints)

Will confess my ignorance on this one.

 

[arrowman]

Agree, though perhaps a few more trades could've been attempted - is it worth persisting with the likes of biglands and perrie? Could you have got something for them? Second round draft picks?

I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few discussions going on in the lead up to trade week. But it takes two to tango, and you never find out (with any certainty) what trades were "attempted".

 

[crowsarethebest]

IMO this is the year we have to have a look at our players and say, is this person AFL standard? Cauze our list now is just full of passengers and no way we will win a premiership with this sH*t list

 

[Markthirtytwo]

Last year we delisted one player and we had 5 draft picks. Any more delistings and we would have been trying to replace them with draft picks at around 80+; probably not good value.

And in there lies the problem. You cannot just slash all you want in one or two years. It will take from three onwards to get a better list.
Otherwise you will have a team of youngsters and if they get constantly belted week in week out, then their confidence will suffer for a long long time.

 

[jakey]

And in there lies the problem. You cannot just slash all you want in one or two years. It will take from three onwards to get a better list.
Otherwise you will have a team of youngsters and if they get constantly belted week in week out, then their confidence will suffer for a long long time.

Not sure I completely agree, providing you balance drafting with effective trading.

However, if all or a majority of the players on the list at the beginning of this thread don't step up...then there's a serious problem.

 

[Alex99]

And in there lies the problem. You cannot just slash all you want in one or two years. It will take from three onwards to get a better list.
Otherwise you will have a team of youngsters and if they get constantly belted week in week out, then their confidence will suffer for a long long time.

And if this season doesn’t go to plan I can see the same thing happening again.

5 or 6 players maximum will get delisted or traded on to another club. It will take the club 4 or 5 years to turn over all the unwanted players.

 

[Stiffy_18]

And in there lies the problem. You cannot just slash all you want in one or two years. It will take from three onwards to get a better list.
Otherwise you will have a team of youngsters and if they get constantly belted week in week out, then their confidence will suffer for a long long time.

Firstly a good list darkey but as Markthirtytwo has said it will take time to turn over the list. If all of those players don't fire we won't and shouldn't delist all of them. At the end of the year we will basically select the "best" out of that lot and keep them. The rest will get the boot.

I expect us to have about 5-6 picks in the draft this year which means 5-6 delistings.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

what i find quite funny is that we have a go at Doughty and co because they are 24+ and hanve't made it, yet we are ready to blow the horn of a 26 year old in hudson

That is a very very good point, on the Stiffys criterea of not recruiting anyone 26 years or older we would have ovelooked Hudson.

Fact is you cannot put age restrictions - we'll most likely get 6 years of service out of Hudson which is more than most AFC recruits.

P.S sorry Stiffy not having a go, you just post so much that there are comments which stick in my head.

 

[tribey]

what i find quite funny is that we have a go at Doughty and co because they are 24+ and haven't made it...

Doughty for midfield 05 !!

With Craig constantly referring to him as "youngster" and bracketing him with the likes of Reilly, Skippy, Bock, Hentschel and Jericho, I've put a tenner on him to win the Rising Star...

 

[Stiffy_18]

That is a very very good point, on the Stiffys criterea of not recruiting anyone 26 years or older we would have ovelooked Hudson.

Fact is you cannot put age restrictions - we'll most likely get 6 years of service out of Hudson which is more than most AFC recruits.

P.S sorry Stiffy not having a go, you just post so much that there are comments which stick in my head.

I wasn't against drafting experienced ruckman because we DESPERATELY needed one.

I am against drafting a 26 year old just because he is a solid player. Honestly what would Shannon Motlop bring to this side. We need to develop youngsters in the positions that he would play.

If there was a 25 or 26 year old real quality crumber who could come in and be as successfull as Hudson has been for us then I would do it but to do it for the sake of doing it is just a poor strategy. The reason we got into deep ******** in the first place has been because we have gone for these midaged players as a quick fix. Time to start building the team from the bottom up not plugging holes on the run

As for comparing Doughty and Hudson you guys are overlooking one MAJOR aspect in all this. Doughty has been with this club for some 5 odd years. This is Hudson's 2nd year on our list and 5 or so in footy. Placing them in the same category is just wrong.

 

[Stiffy_18]

With Craig constantly referring to him as "youngster" and bracketing him with the likes of Reilly, Skippy, Bock, Hentschel and Jericho, I've put a tenner on him to win the Rising Star...

People get stuck into Sarge and forget to realise Doughty has been around for just as long and still hasn't cemented a spot in the 22.

 

[tribey]

As for comparing Doughty and Hudson you guys are overlooking one MAJOR aspect in all this. Doughty has been with this club for some 5 odd years. This is Hudson's 2nd year on our list and 5 or so in footy. Placing them in the same category is just wrong.

Nah, I reckon I've seen the light Stifler.

I for one fully expect Dogga to shake off the 'soft passenger' tag I so fairly slapped on him in the past and stamp his authority all over the ruck position this year...

 

[Crow-mosone]

Not trying to be rude, but what is the point of a list like that?
I mean so ***** what?

we are not likely to have a particularly successful season - mainly as we are not west coast, and therefore do not consider 8th spot and a loss a successful season.

So of course we have a number of players under the pump, but it's pointless to worry about that right now. the list will change, and take a whole new shape after this season. guys will fade, some will emerge.

Any team in our position will be looking to see who can be part of the long term future, but let's do that on the park, and not playing with ourselves on paper.