Undervalued Cricketers

[Borisdog]

i remember him bowling straight darts and claiming wickets by batsmen trying to smash him out of the attack. is my memory playing tricks on me?

Nope. Not unless mine is too.

My worst memory of him was at the SCG, bowling at a rough patch the size of the Kalgoorlie Super Pit ( Can't remember who against, Saffers maybe? Might even have been the Graham Smith broken hand game ) and COULD NOT LAND THE BALL IN IT.

 

[Wedge McManus]

Can someone PLEASE tell me how you pronounce the name Krezja.....

 

[PhatBoy]

Can someone PLEASE tell me how you pronounce the name Krezja.....

Asia with Kr at the start

 

[Wedge McManus]

Asia with Kr at the start

Thank god you're here. Didn't he develop a doosra?

 

[FRUMPY]

Id say Paul Reiffel was fairly underrated. Playing with McDermott, Warne, McGrath, Merv, Gillespie towards the end - they seemed to steal the spotlight a lot and get most of the praise. Reiffel kept one end very tight and became a very handy lower order batsman towards the end of his career.

Was my favourite player for a few years (being a Victorian and all). Was a good backup bowler and for his last couple of years was a good tail ender batsmen. One home series (1997) made 2 or 3 half centuries and looked as accomplished as a top 6 batsmen. Was disappointed he fell short of 1000 runs and 100 test wickets. Also liked his laid back way of life, nothing seemed to faze him

 

[FRUMPY]

Mark Waugh.
Never seen a better fielder and he was such a classy bat to watch.

Probably rated higher than what he deserves I reckon (in test cricket anyway - was a gun ODI player) Too often got out when going well, hence highest score of only 153 and average of 41. too often would get to 30-40 and then play a loose shot

 

[footyfan1978]

Probably rated higher than what he deserves I reckon (in test cricket anyway - was a gun ODI player) Too often got out when going well, hence highest score of only 153 and average of 41. too often would get to 30-40 and then play a loose shot

That is a common view. Hence why I brought him up. He is so better than how the common man views him. But I understand some are obsessed with the stats and hence he will continue to be undervalued by those that did not follow closely.

 

[Woody15]

Was my favourite player for a few years (being a Victorian and all). Was a good backup bowler and for his last couple of years was a good tail ender batsmen. One home series (1997) made 2 or 3 half centuries and looked as accomplished as a top 6 batsmen. Was disappointed he fell short of 1000 runs and 100 test wickets. Also liked his laid back way of life, nothing seemed to faze him

Yeh I liked him as well. Unbuttoned shirt at the top, chains bouncing around. Very chilled.

Averaged 48 with the bat in his last 18 months of test cricket.

 

[Wedge McManus]

Yeh I liked him as well. Unbuttoned shirt at the top, chains bouncing around. Very chilled.

Averaged 48 with the bat in his last 18 months of test cricket.

And he's got a gun name too...

 

[footyfan1978]

I like Pistol, but I think he benefited as much with quality around him as much as he helped out be great support at other end.
Not so sure in other era of less champs around him, it would have been as good a record. Honest bowler but not brilliant. Siddle similar. Maxy Walker in his time a bit the same.

 

[FRUMPY]

I like Pistol, but I think he benefited as much with quality around him as much as he helped out be great support at other end.
Not so sure in other era of less champs around him, it would have been as good a record. Honest bowler but not brilliant. Siddle similar. Maxy Walker in his time a bit the same.

Same argument for Brett Lee, got a lot of his wickets because they tries to score off him and not get out to McGrath/Warne.

 

[footyfan1978]

Same argument for Brett Lee, got a lot of his wickets because they tries to score off him and not get out to McGrath/Warne.

Maybe, Brett Lee also got a lot of his wickets by purely knocking over batsmen than waiting for batsmen to be worn down and make a mistake.
I am still unsure in my own mind where I rate Lee overall. He is in the 10 quickest bowlers I ever seen but probably not in top 30 bowlers I seen.

 

[FRUMPY]

Maybe, Brett Lee also got a lot of his wickets by purely knocking over batsmen that waiting for batsmen to be worn down and make a mistake.
I am still unsure in my own mind where I rate Lee overall. He is in the 10 quickest bowlers I ever seen but probably not in top 30 bowlers I seen.

Yeah im similar, pretty good test record but not a great bowler. Acted like a w***er when he got a wicket as well (even when it was a tailender or after being smashed)

 

[Richard Pryor]

Yeah im similar, pretty good test record but not a great bowler. Acted like a w***er when he got a wicket as well (even when it was a tailender or after being smashed)

It's interesting that by pretty much every statistical benchmark Johnson has Lee covered pretty comfortably, especially abroad, but even at home, yet Johnson was a laughing stock for much of his career.

Brett Lee's numbers around the world:

Johnson's numbers:


My take is Lee was a luxury player who would not have played enough Tests to get to 300 wickets if he didn't have McGrath and Warne as an insurance policy ensuring that there was no way he could really lose a match for Australia.

Gun in ODI's though.

 

[FRUMPY]

It's interesting that by pretty much every statistical benchmark Johnson has Lee covered pretty comfortably, especially abroad, but even at home, yet Johnson was a laughing stock for much of his career.

Brett Lee's numbers around the world:
View attachment 609879
Johnson's numbers:
View attachment 609881

My take is Lee was a luxury player who would not have played enough Tests to get to 300 wickets if he didn't have McGrath and Warne as an insurance policy ensuring that there was no way he could really lose a match for Australia.

Gun in ODI's though.

Brett Lee never dominated a game let alone a series like Johnson. Lee's best was 5/30 and never took 10 wickets in a match.

Johnsons issues was when he was bad, he was really bad. he could be wayward for most of an innings and then bowl a beauty. But he dominated a few series like no other at times

 

[Wedge McManus]

It's interesting that by pretty much every statistical benchmark Johnson has Lee covered pretty comfortably, especially abroad, but even at home, yet Johnson was a laughing stock for much of his career.

Brett Lee's numbers around the world:
View attachment 609879
Johnson's numbers:
View attachment 609881

My take is Lee was a luxury player who would not have played enough Tests to get to 300 wickets if he didn't have McGrath and Warne as an insurance policy ensuring that there was no way he could really lose a match for Australia.

Gun in ODI's though.

He'd be fairly upset at his England numbers most of all imo. Didn't take advantage of the swing on offer there and got taken to by KP and tres

 

[Richard Pryor]

Brett Lee never dominated a game let alone a series like Johnson. Lee's best was 5/30 and never took 10 wickets in a match.

Johnsons issues was when he was bad, he was really bad. he could be wayward for most of an innings and then bowl a beauty. But he dominated a few series like no other at times

Even with his tendency to go wayward Johnson only averaged over 30 three years out of eight in his career (two if you discount his final year). Brett Lee only averaged under 30 three years out of his nine year, and two if you discount his first year where he only played one Test.

I think their reputations were coloured more by the success rate of the side they were in more than their own bowling performances. In the same vein Harmison's big wide wouldn't have the reputation it does if England whitewashed Australia in that series.

 

[Wedge McManus]

Brett Lee never dominated a game let alone a series like Johnson. Lee's best was 5/30 and never took 10 wickets in a match.

Johnsons issues was when he was bad, he was really bad. he could be wayward for most of an innings and then bowl a beauty. But he dominated a few series like no other at times

Fair call. Plus he's got the added bonus of being able to pretty much be a Freddie Mercury lookalike without doing anything. Hello darlings!!!

 

[footyfan1978]

I probably rate Brett Lee about the same as Rodney Hogg. Geoff Lawson, Craig McDermott and Mitchell Johnson all a little better.

 

[Kyptastic]

That is a common view. Hence why I brought him up. He is so better than how the common man views him. But I understand some are obsessed with the stats and hence he will continue to be undervalued by those that did not follow closely.

Probably wasn't ruthless enough. His highest score was 140 for the longest time and only had one score over 150 by the end of his career. Made lots of tough runs though when it mattered - Sabina Park 95, Port Elizabeth 97 and Adelaide 98 come to mind immediately as great backs to the wall knocks under pressure.

 

[footyfan1978]

Probably wasn't ruthless enough. His highest score was 140 for the longest time and only had one score over 150 by the end of his career. Made lots of tough runs though when it mattered - Sabina Park 95, Port Elizabeth 97 and Adelaide 98 come to mind immediately as great backs to the wall knocks under pressure.

Exactly. plus he did start out in an era when West Indies were still a bit of a power. The guy played some shots off Malcolm Marshall I never seen anyone able to do. Serious talent and his fielding in rare field of brilliance. So undervalued but I valued him greatly. Would have lost a few important series if not for him. That I value about players.

 

[PhatBoy]

I like Pistol, but I think he benefited as much with quality around him as much as he helped out be great support at other end.
Not so sure in other era of less champs around him, it would have been as good a record. Honest bowler but not brilliant. Siddle similar. Maxy Walker in his time a bit the same.

Maybe true in the latter half of his career but he really made his breakthrough in the 1993 Ashes after McDermott left the tour and it was basically Merv and Warne remaining. Reiffel came in for the last three tests and took 19 wickets including a couple of bags of 6(?) and established himself.
Also played an important part in winning the frank worrell trophy for the first time in ages in 1995 - got 15 or so wickets including Richardson (the only West Indian to hit a century in the series and their captain) four times.

 

[Richard Pryor]

Going back before anyone's time, but think Grimmett is undervalued in cricket lore compared to O'Reilly

 

[t_94]

Going back before anyone's time, but think Grimmett is undervalued in cricket lore compared to O'Reilly

I think the same thing about Everton Weekes in the discussion about best batsman after Bradman.

 

[PhatBoy]

Amen to both of the above. There seemed to be a lot of romanticising about O’Reilly, possibly because he passed away around the time Warne was beginning the legspin revival.

Weekes was a superb cricketer. I love that after Worrell was taken from the earth too early, it looks like Weekes is bedded in to try and aim at the century.