Unpopular opinion (potentially) - Australian cricket has always been average...

[RobsJourney]

This may be shot down hard, then again maybe it won't be...

We're currently looking pretty shite as a Test side and despite having what is (was?) ranked the No.1 bowling unit, we're really just an average team outside of Pat Cummins, then Smith and Labuschange in the batting. FWIW btw, I have not once thought our bowling unit was No.1, even before we lost to England in the previous Ashes when Stokes batted them to victory. We just bowl too short for too long and don't really move the ball.

I was born in 1987 and grew up watching us be decent but not amazing in the early to mid-90s, then we ended up having an 8-10 year run of probably being the best Test and ODI side, consistently, that the game will ever see. So all I really knew was Australia being a powerhouse cricketing nation.

Since the gun players retired between 2006 and 2010, we've steadily become pretty darn average overall. I was initially thinking that this was just a down period and that we just need to blood some kids like Pucovski and Green, and really try to get the domestic competitions to devote more energy toward the longer format...

However... perhaps my vision of Australian cricket is blurred by having grown up in such a dominant era?

Either side of that era have we always been pretty frail, having maybe one or two absolute guns surrounded by a lot of average cricketers..?

Yes we've had some great matches where we've dominated, and yes we did win the 2015 ODI World Cup, but overall we're just a mile off that amazing team we previously had, that used to batter teams into the ground then get them out for half as much.

Is this just going to be the norm moving forward? Or am I wrong here, are we just in a lull?

I'm looking at England, they've just smashed India, and suddenly they are looking like the next No.1 side for an extended period. As our bitter rival it makes me feel sick... Surely they fall off a cliff when any of Anderson, Root or Broad retires (fingers crossed)?

Who is in the next wave of stars for us? How do we make the Test side and Domestic Shield competition consistently strong again..?

 

[PhatBoy]

My assessment would be that outside the golden years of 95-07, Australia has never been as good, or as bad, as they are generally made out to be.

Australia certainly aren't shithouse. The academy structures and domestic strength, as much as they might get criticised, mean that Australia will always be at least competitive.

It seems though that they are only ever one good series win away from being lauded the best in the world by the general public, and one series loss away from being called a basket case by the same demographic.

 

[Santana]

Mostly nonsense. Australia almost always had good teams before the 95/07 era. The last 70's and 80's is hard to judge too harshly because of circumstantial factors.

We've been average (test wise at least) since the 95/07 era because of a number of factors

Cricket being on a decline here
More competition for young talent
Misuse of pathways
Horrible governing body

Will it get any better? Test team wise, I'm not sure. Probably only if a freak generation comes along by luck but we would probably ruin most of them anyways.

Limited over wise, it would be hard to see us not competing for World Cups again. Should also get better at IT20 you'd hope.

Australian cricket clearly hasn't always been average.

 

[Santana]

Also, maybe calm down a bit about England going on some dominant run. It's one match. I swear some people can't do anything but live in the moment. A bet you think Root is the best batsmen on the world too?

 

[PhatBoy]

Also, maybe calm down a bit about England going on some dominant run. It's one match. I swear some people can't do anything but live in the moment. A bet you think Root is the best batsmen on the world too?

They've won more matches in Asia/UAE in a month than Australia has won there in 15 years. They've won 6 straight Tests in Sri Lanka, and in their last 3 trips to India have won 3. By current standards of SENA teams travelling to Asia, they HAVE gone on a dominant run. They were also the last team to win a series in India against the hosts. i can't f***ing stand their side and they are so flaky that the WI can take 3 out of 4 tests off them in the space of a year or so, but what they have done/are doing is meritorious.

Root is the best player of spin in the world, which people have acknowledged and numbers (he averages 61.3 in Asia/UAE) back that up.

 

[Santana]

They've won more matches in Asia/UAE in a month than Australia has won there in 15 years. They've won 6 straight Tests in Sri Lanka, and in their last 3 trips to India have won 3. By current standards of SENA teams travelling to Asia, they HAVE gone on a dominant run. They were also the last team to win a series in India against the hosts. i can't f***ing stand their side and they are so flaky that the WI can take 3 out of 4 tests off them in the space of a year or so, but what they have done/are doing is meritorious.

There is a difference between giving praise and saying they are looking like the next #1 side for an extended period. They are still way off that yet. Still very inconsistent with more than a few holes in their team.

Root is the best player of spin in the world, which people have acknowledged and numbers (he averages 61.3 in Asia/UAE) back that up.

When did I even mention his batting of spin? Was clearly making a point that just like Kane late last year having an amazing short run of form doesn't make you the best batsmen going around.

 

[corbies]

If Australian cricket has always been average I'd hate to see what other nations have always been. Australia has the best win-loss ratio in Test cricket history by a distance. England have played nearly 200 more test matches than Australia and Australia have still won more Test matches than them.

Australia has 5 World Cups no one else has more than 2. They're the greatest cricket nation of all time by a distance.

 

[PhatBoy]

There is a difference between giving praise and saying they are looking like the next #1 side for an extended period. They are still way off that yet. Still very inconsistent with more than a few holes in their team.


When did I even mention his batting of spin? Was clearly making a point that just like Kane late last year having an amazing short run of form doesn't make you the best batsmen going around.

No one has said at all that he is the best batsman in the world. That was my point. They have, rightly, acknowledged that he's learned to turn a start into a score again, and that his play against spin is second to none.

 

[Gough]

I think we all just have to accept that very if any of us will be alive next time Australia chucks out a side like they did five years either side of the millennium.

 

[Santana]

No one has said at all that he is the best batsman in the world. That was my point. They have, rightly, acknowledged that he's learned to turn a start into a score again, and that his play against spin is second to none.

Just like Kane during the NZ summer I've been hearing it a bit about Root being the best now especially during this last test. Not from anyone famous yet from memory mind.

I think we all just have to accept that very if any of us will be alive next time Australia chucks out a side like they did five years either side of the millennium.

We, and every other team apart from maybe India, will never get a test team as good as that one. Not the way Test Cricket is going.

 

[PhatBoy]

Just like Kane during the NZ summer I've been hearing it a bit about Root being the best now especially during this last test. Not from anyone famous yet from memory mind.


We, and every other team apart from maybe India, will never get a test team as good as that one. Not the way Test Cricket is going.

Williamson’s form has never waned as long as root’s had and he was just playing sublime cricket. I’d give that call more credence then one about Joe root being the besy

 

[RobsJourney]

Also, maybe calm down a bit about England going on some dominant run. It's one match. I swear some people can't do anything but live in the moment. A bet you think Root is the best batsmen on the world too?

Nah I don't think that about Root.

England have won their past 6 or 7 away tests in a row. Despite the teams they have played that's a pretty great feat.

 

[RobsJourney]

If Australian cricket has always been average I'd hate to see what other nations have always been. Australia has the best win-loss ratio in Test cricket history by a distance. England have played nearly 200 more test matches than Australia and Australia have still won more Test matches than them.

Australia has 5 World Cups no one else has more than 2. They're the greatest cricket nation of all time by a distance.

I think people might be misconstruing the word "average".

Average can mean just as good as the other sides around them. It doesn't mean "bad".

If you take out that dominant era we'd have won 2 world cups as well. That dominant era was something else, but outside that we haven't really been anything special have we? Batting collapses are all too common.

How many tests did we win between say 1995 and 2007? How many have we won since 2007 I wonder... Guess I'll go have a look.

 

[PhatBoy]

1995-2007
96 wins
25 losses
22 draws

2007-Present
74 wins
48 losses
22 draws

Hardly a terrible record.

The thing they have going for them is when they're good they're very good - when they win an Ashes series they win it 5-0 or 4-1 or something. They make the most of their dominance.

There's periods there that are less flattering - from 2010 to now it is 57 wins 40 losses - hardly disastrous but a bit lower on the success scale.

The last 5 years isn't great - 24 wins from 48 matches which is very low for Australia but still won more than they lost

 

[The Passenger]

W/L ratio of 1.74, next best is England with 1.23. You can take out the golden era run (say start of NZ 93/94 to end of Ashes 06/07) our W/L ratio of 1.47 (292 wins, 198 losses) is still better than any other teams. Even through the last decade, which has been mightily frustrating at times we have the second best W/L ratio of 1.55 (only India at 1.66 is better). Only two decades were losses outnumber wins - 1980's (27W/31L) and 1880s (8W/15L).

In ODI cricket, our 1.73 W/L is the second best, only to South Africa at 1.78. India is way back in third at 1.20. 5 World Cup wins, with no other country above 2.

Frustrating little period and definitely a frustrating summer, but over a long journey Australia has been the preeminent cricketing nation.

 

[frankrizzo]

Is this for real?

As others have said we are the most successful test side cricket has seen and we have 5 world cups win as a bonus.

Yes the worries about our board and states priorities going forward are real but cmon this thread is about all time performances and on that criteria we are the best by a wide margin.

 

[magpiemaniac44]

Seriously? England haven't won a test here since 2010/11. They got defeated on their home track by us as well. They drew a World Cup in 2019 and in 2015 didn't even make it to the quarter finals (they finished below Bangladesh). They are also reliant 4-5 players just as much as we are. If people recent Australian sides have been bad just imagine what it'd be like if we were as bad as Sri Lanka atm. We are top 4 in the rankings in all three formats atm without even playing our best.

 

[PhatBoy]

Seriously? England haven't won a test here since 2010/11. They got defeated on their home track by us as well. They drew a World Cup in 2019 and in 2015 didn't even make it to the quarter finals (they finished below Bangladesh). They are also reliant 4-5 players just as much as we are. If people recent Australian sides have been bad just imagine what it'd be like if we were as bad as Sri Lanka atm. We are top 4 in the rankings in all three formats atm without even playing our best.

No they didn’t. They drew 2-2. Australia hasn’t won a series in England since 2001. That includes the series they played against Pakistan over there.


Sri Lanka’s win loss ratio is awful but they’ve at least won a series overseas in the last five calendar years.

 

[VirgilHilts]

Like all countries, Australia have had periods where the pool of available players has been worse than usual but Australia almost always seem to have an absolute gun or two to carry them through it.

 

[Heisenberg111]

1. Australia
2. England
3. South Africa
4. Pakistan

This is the order of most successful teams in Test cricket's history. Australia is no.1 by a massive distance though.

 

[RobsJourney]

1995-2007
96 wins
25 losses
22 draws

2007-Present
74 wins
48 losses
22 draws

Hardly a terrible record.

The thing they have going for them is when they're good they're very good - when they win an Ashes series they win it 5-0 or 4-1 or something. They make the most of their dominance.

There's periods there that are less flattering - from 2010 to now it is 57 wins 40 losses - hardly disastrous but a bit lower on the success scale.

The last 5 years isn't great - 24 wins from 48 matches which is very low for Australia but still won more than they lost

Who did we beat in the more recent periods? I still kinda think NZ are pretenders so beating them here in Aus was nothing special.

Not sure we won many games against currently good Test sides.

 

[RobsJourney]

No they didn’t. They drew 2-2. Australia hasn’t won a series in England since 2001. That includes the series they played against Pakistan over there.


Sri Lanka’s win loss ratio is awful but they’ve at least won a series overseas in the last five calendar years.

Such a sad stat. Kasprowicz gets under that bouncer in 2005 and it would have been a famous victory and a 2-1 series our way. Literally everything went right for England that series.

 

[Heisenberg111]

Such a sad stat. Kasprowicz gets under that bouncer in 2005 and it would have been a famous victory and a 2-1 series our way. Literally everything went right for England that series.

Australia still have the 2nd best record in England since 2000, behind South Africa only.

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[corbies]

Who did we beat in the more recent periods? I still kinda think NZ are pretenders so beating them here in Aus was nothing special.

Not sure we won many games against currently good Test sides.

If NZ aren't good how many are currently good? 1? The 1 NZ beat a month after losing to Australia?

 

[melanChronic]

Lol this thread is Pat Cummins... overrated? tier. Australia are the Brazil of the cricket world. In contrast to the golden period, sure they are in a bit of a lull, but the historical record of Australia's would be the envy of every other cricket playing nation.