News VB captain, Dangerfield and Sloane co-vice

[King Elvis]

If it ain't broke, don't mess with it.

That attitude is why we haven't won a flag since '98, when a guy came in and messed with everything to try and improve it.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Nobody is, or ever has, accepted the status quo because it's the status quo.

The post-season review would have been tasked with identifying what went wrong, why, and what can/should be done to change it. Plenty of things needed changing. Leadership wasn't one of them.

Fix what needs fixing. If it ain't broke, don't mess with it.

But the people who are judging what needs fixing and what doesn't are the ones who got it wrong in the first place.

Why would we have faith that they will identify the problem areas correctly?

 

[Vader]

That attitude is why we haven't won a flag since '98, when a guy came in and messed with everything to try and improve it.

Garbage

 

[Vader]

But the people who are judging what needs fixing and what doesn't are the ones who got it wrong in the first place.

Why would we have faith that they will identify the problem areas correctly?

In that case maybe we should be sacking the entire coaching staff and hiring Nathan Buckley & Mick Malthouse, whose feet you worship? Surely they'd be able to fix our problems.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

In that case maybe we should be sacking the entire coaching staff and hiring Nathan Buckley & Mick Malthouse, whose feet you worship? Surely they'd be able to fix our problems.

How about we start with sacking one person?

Oh sorry... there's Rendell. The one bloke doing a good job

 

[King Elvis]

Garbage

It's not garbage.

We are in love with the status quo, and we are too nice and too soft to spill some blood to improve things.

Our assistant coaching panel is ordinary (there is a reason none of them get poached, or discussed for senior roles), yet no one is accountable.
We didn't sack our suspended CEO even though he crippled the Club.
We only drop players if they 'deserve' to be dropped.
We lie constantly to the public.

We're soft and we're terrified of making hard decisions.

 

[fabs33]

In that case maybe we should be sacking the entire coaching staff and hiring Nathan Buckley & Mick Malthouse, whose feet you worship? Surely they'd be able to fix our problems.

That's just pointless hyperbole, the obvious point Carl made was that you can't use the judgement of people who have proven not to be infallible as some kind of irrefutable evidence to back your opinion.

 

[Elite Crow]

The club has a recent history of stuffing things up, the list is long. To suggest the club got this right because they made the decision is naive.

 

[Vader]

That's just pointless hyperbole, the obvious point Carl made was that you can't use the judgement of people who have proven not to be infallible as some kind of irrefutable evidence to back your opinion.

No, it's not pointless hyperbole.

Sando has made a number of changes since he arrived at the club, demonstrating his ability to identify problem areas and address them. The end result was the famous Sando Spike of 2012. 2013 was the first "down" year, where things didn't work out the way that Sando envisaged them. I don't think it's unreasonable to give him the opportunity to show how he rebounds after a bad season, before condemning him as being incapable of self assessment, but that's not Carl's way.

It's very clear from Carl's posting history that he has no faith in any member of the Crows hierarchy, including the coaching staff (ie Sando). They can never do any right in his eyes, their inability to make the changes that he wants being (pathetically) written off as being satisfied with mediocrity. The only person I can ever recall him expressing confidence in, or admiration for, is Mick Malthouse, so I guess that's the next logical step in Carl's line of thought - get MM in to do the post-season review, preferably followed by his appointment as Senior Coach.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Yeah, getting a premiership coach would be stupid

 

[Elite Crow]

Blah blah blah.

 

[fabs33]

No, it's not pointless hyperbole.

Sando has made a number of changes since he arrived at the club, demonstrating his ability to identify problem areas and address them. The end result was the famous Sando Spike of 2012. 2013 was the first "down" year, where things didn't work out the way that Sando envisaged them. I don't think it's unreasonable to give him the opportunity to show how he rebounds after a bad season, before condemning him as being incapable of self assessment, but that's not Carl's way.

It's very clear from Carl's posting history that he has no faith in any member of the Crows hierarchy, including the coaching staff (ie Sando). They can never do any right in his eyes, their inability to make the changes that he wants being (pathetically) written off as being satisfied with mediocrity. The only person I can ever recall him expressing confidence in, or admiration for, is Mick Malthouse, so I guess that's the next logical step in Carl's line of thought - get MM in to do the post-season review, preferably followed by his appointment as Senior Coach.

I acknowledge that Carl is often critical of the club, but on this point I believe he is correct. Whilst I'm with you in terms of giving the coaches a chance to redeem themselves from the poor season we just had, I'm not going to forget that they were largely responsible for it, they made mistakes and that is proof that they can make mistakes. I'm not suggesting that selecting VB as captain for 2014 is beyond any doubt one of them, but the possibility that it is exists, and taking the word of those who made the decision as undeniable evidence that it is the right one is flawed logic, regardless of the coaches level of expertise in the matter.

 

[Draft Bored]

Nobody is, or ever has, accepted the status quo because it's the status quo.

The post-season review would have been tasked with identifying what went wrong, why, and what can/should be done to change it. Plenty of things needed changing. Leadership wasn't one of them.

Fix what needs fixing. If it ain't broke, don't mess with it.

I'd say one key issue that is fast becoming the status quo is our captain struggling to make the 22.

Now he's out for a year.

Let's just all agree for the moment that he is the best leader... How many average/sidelined years do we accept because his leadership skills are supreme?

 

[fabs33]

Yeah, getting a premiership coach would be stupid

I'll say one thing in favour of Malthouse; that he has shown an amazing ability to adapt to the continuous evolution of the sport, you don't make it to grand finals and win premierships across multiple decades unless you really understand what you're doing. On that note I'm curious to see how Roos goes at Melbourne and whether his methods will work almost ten years after he won the 2005 premiership.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

If it was one bad season you could ride it out but three of the last four seasons have been terrible. Which one is the anomaly? And really, you look at a longer period and 2009 and 2012 are our "high points" in a seven year stretch. It's genuinely mediocre yet beyond some cosmetic changes each season there has never been a major list overhaul or a major turnover of off-field staff. Yes the coach went but it wasn't as though a broom was swept through at the same time.

We seem to always do just well enough not to warrant significant changes or a change of direction, but never well enough to actually sniff some success.

 

[Elite Crow]

The last overhaul we had was at the end of 96, co-incidence? Our club is comfy, people like their jobs, the only person in recent times who rocked the boat slightly was Rendell and we sacked him.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

gutless decision

 

[Draft Bored]

We seem to always do just well enough not to warrant significant changes or a change of direction, but never well enough to actually sniff some success.

This x 1000000.

 

[fabs33]

If it was one bad season you could ride it out but three of the last four seasons have been terrible. Which one is the anomaly? And really, you look at a longer period and 2009 and 2012 are our "high points" in a seven year stretch. It's genuinely mediocre yet beyond some cosmetic changes each season there has never been a major list overhaul or a major turnover of off-field staff. Yes the coach went but it wasn't as though a broom was swept through at the same time.

We seem to always do just well enough not to warrant significant changes or a change of direction, but never well enough to actually sniff some success.

I think we did well in the 2005/2006 period but it's been pretty much down hill since then. If we look back over recent years it's become apparent that in order to actually win a premiership a team needs to have a period of strength where they consistently finish in the top four over a few years, i.e. the so-called premiership window. We haven't had one of these for a while now, and our unwillingness to change things up a bit in light of this does raise some curiosity, for me at least.

The point at which we could have seen more significant changes happen would probably have been Craig's last season when we were getting thumped by some really average sides like Melbourne, but the only change that I can remember was Craig. We also had Hart leaving but that was a change that was forced upon us. I wonder whether the decisions by the club administrators to retain certain staff over the years has been purely based on performance or perhaps in conjunction with other factors such as finances and friendships.

I'd also like to point out that I'm more willing to give Sanderson and Milburn the benefit of a second chance than I am to certain others in the coaches box.

 

[Vader]

If it was one bad season you could ride it out but three of the last four seasons have been terrible. Which one is the anomaly? And really, you look at a longer period and 2009 and 2012 are our "high points" in a seven year stretch. It's genuinely mediocre yet beyond some cosmetic changes each season there has never been a major list overhaul or a major turnover of off-field staff. Yes the coach went but it wasn't as though a broom was swept through at the same time.

We seem to always do just well enough not to warrant significant changes or a change of direction, but never well enough to actually sniff some success.

Only two of those years have been under Sando. More to the point, our list is now in a very different position to where it was in 2010. Back then we had a large number (20+) of 100+ game players who had recently retired, or left the club by other means. We had a very inexperienced group. The last few years have been the result of growing pains, as that young group slowly gained the experience they needed.

Today we have a large group of kids getting very close to that magic 100 game mark - and a number of other talented youngsters who look set to take us into the future (Crouch x2, Smith, Talia, etc).

The days of those growing pains should be behind us. We've recruited to fill some of the critical gaps in our list (JPod & Betts). The coaching staff should have learned from the mistakes they made in 2013. Right now is a time for optimism. If you can't be optimistic 2 weeks out from the start of the mickey mouse stuff then you're never going to be.

If things go pear shaped again this year, with the same problems we saw last year, then we'll deal with that when the time comes - and I'll be just as vocal as everyone else in criticising Sando. For now though he is being criticised unfairly, based on nothing but Carl's love of bagging the club.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The days of those growing pains should be behind us. We've recruited to fill some of the critical gaps in our list (JPod & Betts). The coaching staff should have learned from the mistakes they made in 2013. Right now is a time for optimism. If you can't be optimistic 2 weeks out from the start of the mickey mouse stuff then you're never going to be.

Look, all 18 clubs would be optimistic at this time of year. It's meaningless.

If things go pear shaped again this year, with the same problems we saw last year, then we'll deal with that when the time comes - and I'll be just as vocal as everyone else in criticising Sando. For now though he is being criticised unfairly, based on nothing but Carl's love of bagging the club.

What is that based on? I don't think we will.

I think if we finish mid-table again then we'll find external reasons for it. Bad luck, injuries, umpiring, AFL, programming, can't lure players to Adelaide, had to adjust to rotations rule, Tex still finding touch, lost our captain before the season etc.

The problem with mid-table is that you look back on the season and are only "a couple of close losses" away from making finals.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I'd also like to point out that I'm more willing to give Sanderson and Milburn the benefit of a second chance than I am to certain others in the coaches box.

I really like Sanderson and Milburn too. But I want to see them put their stamp on things. Not continue on the path we've been going down.

I'm not so enamoured with Clarke, Bickley, Clarke and Harper. Also Clarke.

 

[Wright Away]

I've had a gutful of watching losing prelim finals and 'being within a kick of a Grandfinal' and all the pathetic backslapping that goes on for winning nothing games that goes on at the Crows while other teams win the big games.

This kind of shit is for the St.Kildas and the Western Bulldogs of the world.

Success requires hard decisions, it requires sacrifice and luck. The Crow just rely on the luck. 'Oh boy the Crows played well against those tough GWS guys on the weekend, good to get a hard fought win, that Petrenko is so cute, best player eva!'

 

[Wright Away]

I really like Sanderson and Milburn too. But I want to see them put their stamp on things. Not continue on the path we've been going down.

I'm not so enamoured with Clarke, Bickley, Clarke and Harper. Also Clarke.

Bickley is the worst of the lot. A cardboard cut out that talks.

 

[Glenno23]

We seem to always do just well enough not to warrant significant changes or a change of direction, but never well enough to actually sniff some success.

Why would they risk their cushy jobs by taking a risk?

Its pathetic really. We need changes. What the club has been doing has brought zero "end" success

We have the cattle, some mighty talent on our list (Cheers to Rendell's drafting) If we can't get close this year there HAS to be major changes. I just can't see how that could happen in any way, shape or form. And that makes me sad