VB into the First 22?

[Vader]

Most of us have by now looked at the Crows lineup and tried to work out what we consider to be our "first 22" - at least our first 22 ignoring Hudson's long term knee injury.

To our surprise, we find that we can't find a way of fitting VB into that side.

Now, with the aging of our senior players (we currently have 9 players aged 28+) it is imperitive that we get some game time into the younger brigade. The Mickey Mouse Cup has clearly shown that both VB & Knights (plus Porps, Vince and arguably others) are now ready for AFL footy - so how do we fit them in?

Knights will almost certainly take the spot previously occupied by "young" Michael Doughty. However, Skipworth's development over the summer would indicate that he's done enough to keep his name just ahead of the oncoming youth brigade.

So how do we fit VB into the side? Who misses out?

VB has been mainly viewed as a HBF type player. To my mind, given his build and athleticism, the players he's competing with are Ben Hart & Jason Torney.

This may come to some people as a shock, but my money would probably be on Jason Torney missing out.

Torney is 28 (turns 29 in June). He is a reliable defender, who has pleasantly surprised me since his arrival from Richmond (I didn't rate him at all previously). He's done nothing to deserve being dropped, but it may end up happening for the good of the team's list management.

Torney is now out for a month with a torn quadricep muscle. Will he be able to regain his spot when he returns to full fitness?

 

[macca23]

One of the better type of problems to have, but nevertheless a problem.

I placed my best 22 and shock, horror, I couldn't fit VB in.


That was in spite of the fact that I think it's a must that he play every game this year to fast-track a player that will be a 200+ game player with us and can hold his own already.

Injury across the season might just solve the problem anyway, creating a spot for him most weeks.

If not, it has to be a shoot out between him and Skippy IMO. Torney showed just how important he was last year in the games that really count, while on the other hand, there can't be any doubt that VB iss going to be a far better player long term than Skippy.

What a turnaround!! It wasn't all that long ago we were wondering where our next decent player was going to come from.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I reckon Craigy would have Thorney in his first 10 picked. IMO both VB, Reilly and Knights must play come the real deal. All 3 have been exceptional in the PS to date and must be rewarded with a game in round1. To play that good and then get dropped for a Skippy or Doughty would hinder their development and knock their confidence IMO.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Like most, I couldn't find room for VB in my best 22. However, as my 23rd player, I'm sure he will play most games due to injuries. Reckon there is a fair chance by years end he will be permanently in the best-22, at the expense of an older player.

 

[DJ75]

There is no way in hell I would leave Torney out, he's just too good. With that said I too am finding it hard to fit everyone in, but here is how I would go:

FF: Welsh McGregor McLeod
HF: Johncock Perrie Hentshell
C: Knights Roo Burton
HB:Goodwin Bock Hart
FB: Torney Rutten Bassett

1R: Biglands Edwards Mattner
I/C:Shirley, VB, Maric/Clarke, Reilly

This gives us a bloody good team and also gives some young guys some experience. With injuries, replacements like Doughty, Skipworth, Bode etc.. give us a great deal of depth not to mention the young guys like Vince who may be pushing as well!

I tell you what Craig must look at a team like this and lick his lips! Check out the forward line with Macca and Johncock in it! Imagine then rotating them into the midfield and swapping Edwards and Roo into the forward lines! Or suddenly throwing VB on the Bflank and putting Goodwin on the wing. How the hell do you compete with that!
Oh by the way I've used Mattner as my tagger ahead of Shirley, but again Shirley is there to give him relief and us more flexibility.
Damn I can't wait for the season to begin!

 

[Eggzoi]

I'd drop Shirley and try to make someone else a tagger. Don't mind Shirls, sure like him a lot more than Doughty, but he's not that good to be made untouchable. Actually, is Shirls out injured? I can't remember seeing him play yet this year.

 

[- PC -]

. To my mind, given his build and athleticism, the players he's competing with are Ben Hart & Jason Torney.

Why didnt you mention Hart?

First let me say I am a huge fan of Ben Hart and he is in my 22.

BUT

I ask myself is he playing for 300 and then moving on... or does he genuinely have 350 within him? I feel if we were struggling for depth then it wouldnt be a problem, but like the Australian cricket team there comes a time when you say "" stop we need to bring kids in'' .

I guess what I am saying is for BH to play his 300th and then all bets are off and he , unless solid form warrants, is part of that 20-24 group ie players selected in that region who may be bench players or just missing out.

 

[Vader]

Why didnt you mention Hart?

First let me say I am a huge fan of Ben Hart and he is in my 22.

BUT

I ask myself is he playing for 300 and then moving on... or does he genuinely have 350 within him? I feel if we were struggling for depth then it wouldnt be a problem, but like the Australian cricket team there comes a time when you say "" stop we need to bring kids in'' .

I guess what I am saying is for BH to play his 300th and then all bets are off and he , unless solid form warrants, is part of that 20-24 group ie players selected in that region who may be bench players or just missing out.

Possession they say is 9/10 of the law. Torney will be missing at the start of the season, Hart will not be (barring something unfortunate happening between now and then).

Other than that, why should Hart not be the one giving up his spot?

A lot of it comes down to emotion I guess. Hart is a club legend, Torney is a johnny-come-lately.

However, I suspect you may be right - Hart will play his 300th, then it is all fair in love and war. Hart is no longer one of the first players selected and it may well be he who gives up his position in favour of the young turks.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Where do people see Mattner playing? I hope they return him to the wing once the real stuff starts. He's a natural wingman. I would have thought he would be the first wingman picked.

 

[snakebite01]

DJ75, you left Thompson out (by accident I assume).

The competition for spots in the 22, thanks to the form of the younger guys this pre-season, is going to be massive.

IMO, there are only about 5-6 players who I will feel uncomfortable seeing them on the team sheet, either because they are not ready or they are not good enough.

 

[snakebite01]

Where do people see Mattner playing? I hope they return him to the wing once the real stuff starts. He's a natural wingman. I would have thought he would be the first wingman picked.

Springy, like you I'm expecting Mattner to return to the wing when round 1 comes along, partly because that's his best position and partly because, when fit, the back 6 is pretty much unchangeable (Bassett, Rutten, Hart, Johncock, Bock, Torney are all first choice).

I don't think we need Mattner down there, and I think Craigy is just using him there to make sure he has that versatility up his sleeve in the event of injuries. IMO, the 18 is pretty much settled, with about 12-15 guys fighting for the 4 bench spots.

 

[- PC -]

Where do people see Mattner playing? I hope they return him to the wing once the real stuff starts. He's a natural wingman. I would have thought he would be the first wingman picked.

Agreed . His work off the wing was outstanding at times. Though you look at his tackling efforts and you think tagger as well. But to see him start striding , looking for all the world like a Russian Wolfhound , down the wing is a joy to see

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Springy, like you I'm expecting Mattner to return to the wing when round 1 comes along, partly because that's his best position and partly because, when fit, the back 6 is pretty much unchangeable (Bassett, Rutten, Hart, Johncock, Bock, Torney are all first choice).

I don't think we need Mattner down there, and I think Craigy is just using him there to make sure he has that versatility up his sleeve in the event of injuries. IMO, the 18 is pretty much settled, with about 12-15 guys fighting for the 4 bench spots.

....

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Springy, like you I'm expecting Mattner to return to the wing when round 1 comes along, partly because that's his best position and partly because, when fit, the back 6 is pretty much unchangeable (Bassett, Rutten, Hart, Johncock, Bock, Torney are all first choice).

I don't think we need Mattner down there, and I think Craigy is just using him there to make sure he has that versatility up his sleeve in the event of injuries. IMO, the 18 is pretty much settled, with about 12-15 guys fighting for the 4 bench spots.

Looks a pretty solid back 6 there and we still need to fit Mcleod and VB in there somewhere. It's going to be interesting see Craigs starting structure come rnd 1. Too many players, too few positions - its a good position to be in.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Agreed . His work off the wing was outstanding at times. Though you look at his tackling efforts and you think tagger as well. But to see him start striding , looking for all the world like a Russian Wolfhound , down the wing is a joy to see

Agreed. Seeing Mattner breaking the lines or drilling the oppositioin into the ground was one of the highlights of 2005. I remember Ayres playing him as a tagger for a few games and he looked to really struggle in that type of role. I reckon his talents would be wasted as a tagger.

 

[Alex99]

Where do people see Mattner playing? I hope they return him to the wing once the real stuff starts. He's a natural wingman. I would have thought he would be the first wingman picked.

Agree

As soon as Nathan Bassett returns to the side I also hope that he returns to a wing. He has done a serviceable job in the back lines but now we know how damaging his left foot is and what he can do on a wing; he has to play there all the time.

 

[Fudd]

Agreed. Seeing Mattner breaking the lines or drilling the oppositioin into the ground was one of the highlights of 2005. I remember Ayres playing him as a tagger for a few games and he looked to really struggle in that type of role. I reckon his talents would be wasted as a tagger.

Itll be a dark dark day if i ever have to see Marty in a tagging role again. He is too much of a weapon on the wing, and secondly he cant tag to save himself or the team. I used to give him a hard time back then, but mostly it was just so frustrating because he obviously had it in him to be a far more attacking player as he has proven.

 

[RoosterLad]

i would probably let VB run around the spacious paradise that is Noarlunga Oval to begin with.
Reilly will play the meat Pies and i hope Knights does, hes a gem. I saw him play his first league game last year for Eagles, we flogged them by 8 goals yet he stood out and was their best player.
Last week was probably the first time ive seen him play a lot of minutes with the Crows and he was brilliant. Kicked some wonderful goals which is very important for a midfielder as it makes them even more damaging.

 

[AdelUniCrowFan]

With Torney out VB makes it into the 22 for Round 1. I still don't know who to give 2nd Ruck to.

F: Knights Hentschel Welsh
HF: Perrie McGregor Burton
C: Goodwin Ricciuto Mattner
HB: Van Berlo* Bock Hart
B: Bassett Rutten Johncock
R: Biglands McLeod Edwards
INT: Maric/Clarke Thompson Shirley Reilly

Missing: Bode, Vince, Skipworth, Doughty, Hinge, Massie and others.

*replacement for Torney

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

There is no way in hell I would leave Torney out, he's just too good. With that said I too am finding it hard to fit everyone in, but here is how I would go:

FF: Welsh McGregor McLeod
HF: Johncock Perrie Hentshell
C: Knights Roo Burton
HB:Goodwin Bock Hart
FB: Torney Rutten Bassett

1R: Biglands Edwards Mattner
I/C:Shirley, VB, Maric/Clarke, Reilly

I reckon Thompson will be in the team, which means VB will probably miss.

 

[RoosterLad]

yeah Romper Stomper will play
pretty tough picking our best 22 which is always a good thing

 

[Stiffy_18]

There is no way in hell I would leave Torney out, he's just too good. With that said I too am finding it hard to fit everyone in, but here is how I would go:

FF: Welsh McGregor McLeod
HF: Johncock Perrie Hentshell
C: Knights Roo Burton
HB:Goodwin Bock Hart
FB: Torney Rutten Bassett

1R: Biglands Edwards Mattner
I/C:Shirley, VB, Maric/Clarke, Reilly

This gives us a bloody good team and also gives some young guys some experience. With injuries, replacements like Doughty, Skipworth, Bode etc.. give us a great deal of depth not to mention the young guys like Vince who may be pushing as well!

I tell you what Craig must look at a team like this and lick his lips! Check out the forward line with Macca and Johncock in it! Imagine then rotating them into the midfield and swapping Edwards and Roo into the forward lines! Or suddenly throwing VB on the Bflank and putting Goodwin on the wing. How the hell do you compete with that!
Oh by the way I've used Mattner as my tagger ahead of Shirley, but again Shirley is there to give him relief and us more flexibility.
Damn I can't wait for the season to begin!

So let me get this straight, you got Van Berlo, Knights, Shirley et al, all ahead of Thompson in your team?????

Thompson is by FAR our best young midfielder. He would be amonst the first picked every single week.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Take a closer look at our injury list and I don't think we'll have trouble finding a spot to squeeze VB in. Out of our best 22, I don't expect the following will play round 1:

Hudson- Obviously,
Bassett - Doesn't start training until lat March - ,
Welsh- Fractured leg,
Thorney,
Roo - Maybe even Roo.

Let's just hope we don't get anymore bloody injuries and that Bock is okay for round 1.

Let's hope they're fit, but if the above all don't play come rnd1 this is how my 22 would look:





Edwards McGregor Knights


Trent Pez Burton


Reilly Thompson Mattner


McLeod Bock Johncock


VB Rutts Doughty



1R Biglands Goodwin Shirley



Inter: Clarke, Bode, Porp, Massie or Skip ( although I would prefer another youngster but you can't have too many younguns).

 

[Tobster]

The Count is in my best team, albeit opn the bench. Best 22 barring injuries for me is:
Bassett Rutten Hart
152 36 298
190,87 191,99 190,83
McLeod Bock Edwards
240 34 221
181,80 193,92 180,80
Mattner Thompson Reilly
57 63 44
189,83 185,84 184,84
Perrie McGregor Burton
94 117 118
194,102 195,97 185,83
Johncock Hentschel Welsh
85 42 138
179,85 194,91 187,89
Biglands Ricciuto Goodwin
111 286 170
200,103 184,93 184,87
Maric Torney Van Berlo Knights
0 165 11 2
198,97 187,84 184,80 185,82

If you can't work out forwards to backs then god help you and I'm too ********ed to care!

Clarke is my backup ruckman because we need to blood new talls. He won't be with us next year.

 

[AdelUniCrowFan]

^ ^

Who is the replacement tagger for Shirley?