Competitions Vote for the 2015 Whipping Boy!

[1970crow]

I'll retract that he's over paid because 1 I don't know what he's getting paid and 2 I don't know what others of his output are getting paid. But my original point still stands that experience and talent shouldn't come into contracts it should be base on output. Of which I think Mackay hasn't lived up to his ability.

In terms of output, Mackay deserves about the same contract as Brodie Martin. Potentially his ceiling is higher, however he's proven that he's not capable of playing near it for extended periods of time. If someone said that one of Martin or Mackay is going to another club, I doubt many would care which one it ended up being.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

How do you explain Tom Boyd?

Tippett-syndrome.

Big bloke overpaid on potential due to lack of similar types available.

 

[Team DJ]

It's a lot for a bloke who was dropped in 2013 and should have been close in the last half of last year. If it's over 4 years then it's a disastrous contract, worse than Reilly's extension.

I doubt there would be many players in the league with McKays experience and talent that are on less.

 

[1970crow]

I doubt there would be many players in the league with McKays experience and talent that are on less.

What good is experience and talent if it's not put to use on game day. He's certainly experienced and talented at underachieving. He's about as valuable on the field as Brodie Martin. Do you see a 4 year contract in Brodie's immediate future. If we're going to be a legit top 4 team and flag chance Mackay is the prototype player that needs to be surpassed. Guys like that shouldn't be getting 4 year deals or $400k.

 

[Paladin]

I would argue if we want to be a flag chance blokes like Mackay need to step it up. Has undoubted more class than Martin just needs to find it 5 more times a game. Could it be Sandos contested ball at all costs gameplan hindered his output?

 

[1970crow]

I would argue if we want to be a flag chance blokes like Mackay need to step it up. Has undoubted more class than Martin just needs to find it 5 more times a game. Could it be Sandos contested ball at all costs gameplan hindered his output?

Certainly possible, but we're still rewarding potential to what is now a 26yo. Regarding the first sentence, it's the same thing. Either he's surpassed by another player or he surpasses his own previous output. He's got strong form in not living up to his potential. Remove the few months before his last 2 contracts were signed and he's been a thoroughly ordinary player. Who we're now stuck with for 4 more years at a reported $400k/year. The stupidity in signing this bloke to that term before tex, danger, sloane and Douglas is extreme.

 

[Paladin]

Certainly possible, but we're still rewarding potential to what is now a 26yo. Regarding the first sentence, it's the same thing. Either he's surpassed by another player or he surpasses his own previous output. He's got strong form in not living up to his potential. Remove the few months before his last 2 contracts were signed and he's been a thoroughly ordinary player. Who we're now stuck with for 4 more years at a reported $400k/year. The stupidity in signing this bloke to that term before tex, danger, sloane and Douglas is extreme.

Certainly possible, but we're still rewarding potential to what is now a 26yo. Regarding the first sentence, it's the same thing. Either he's surpassed by another player or he surpasses his own previous output. He's got strong form in not living up to his potential. Remove the few months before his last 2 contracts were signed and he's been a thoroughly ordinary player. Who we're now stuck with for 4 more years at a reported $400k/year. The stupidity in signing this bloke to that term before tex, danger, sloane and Douglas is extreme.

I certainly agree with the first part he has been average but is a classy outside player with ball in hand. Regarding the contract what if he sacrificed money for long term security? If it's 350k a year for 4 I certainly take the risk and do the deal. The cap is going up so clubs can sign players to unders with long term deals. 400k a year could very well be close to minimum wage in 4 years.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I certainly agree with the first part he has been average but is a classy outside player with ball in hand. Regarding the contract what if he sacrificed money for long term security? If it's 350k a year for 4 I certainly take the risk and do the deal. The cap is going up so clubs can sign players to unders with long term deals. 400k a year could very well be close to minimum wage in 4 years.

$400k won't be the minimum salary but won't be far off the average salary in 4 years... & certainly not massively overs for MacKay like some have carried on about.

 

[1970crow]

I certainly agree with the first part he has been average but is a classy outside player with ball in hand. Regarding the contract what if he sacrificed money for long term security? If it's 350k a year for 4 I certainly take the risk and do the deal. The cap is going up so clubs can sign players to unders with long term deals. 400k a year could very well be close to minimum wage in 4 years.

He was dropped in 2013 and should have been close last year. His perceived weapons are irrelevant if they're not consistently displayed at the highest level. There may be performance triggers that haven't been reported and the rate may not be near $400k. But to be satisfied that this player will be best 20 this year, let alone in 2-4 years is rank stupidity. He may only be on $250k, but it would still be ludicrous to tie us to him for 4 years. It reeks of the last 2 years that Reilly was awarded, supported by many of the mediocre, role playing enthusiasts around these parts. Well, I suppose if we snaffle the sanfl premiership this year, I'll have egg on my face with that one.

I know that we're probably never going to get a full list of player salaries, but it would be great if we could get a few actual salary lists without naming players or the club. That way we could plot where our players would sit on the list and have a better idea what the mid-ranked best 22 players are earning. The cap itself has only gone up by $150k into 2015 and the same again for 2016. If we assume non-playing 1st and 2nd year draftees with one from each of the first 3 rounds, then we have about $9.5m for the remaining 36 players. The average is about $265k, so it's safe to assume that $400k will not be the minimum wage in 4 years. It is presently $81k plus $3.5k if every game is played ($158k).

Either way, suggesting that his salary may soon be near minimum wage is an interesting way to show support for the decision.

 

[Paladin]

He was dropped in 2013 and should have been close last year. His perceived weapons are irrelevant if they're not consistently displayed at the highest level. There may be performance triggers that haven't been reported and the rate may not be near $400k. But to be satisfied that this player will be best 20 this year, let alone in 2-4 years is rank stupidity. He may only be on $250k, but it would still be ludicrous to tie us to him for 4 years. It reeks of the last 2 years that Reilly was awarded, supported by many of the mediocre, role playing enthusiasts around these parts. Well, I suppose if we snaffle the sanfl premiership this year, I'll have egg on my face with that one.

I know that we're probably never going to get a full list of player salaries, but it would be great if we could get a few actual salary lists without naming players or the club. That way we could plot where our players would sit on the list and have a better idea what the mid-ranked best 22 players are earning. The cap itself has only gone up by $150k into 2015 and the same again for 2016. If we assume non-playing 1st and 2nd year draftees with one from each of the first 3 rounds, then we have about $9.5m for the remaining 36 players. The average is about $265k, so it's safe to assume that $400k will not be the minimum wage in 4 years. It is presently $81k plus $3.5k if every game is played ($158k).

Either way, suggesting that his salary may soon be near minimum wage is an interesting way to show support for the decision.

I show support because I still think he can be a very damaging player in a well coached, good side. Strongly with you in support of Reilly being delisted - absolutely pointless that he is going around again a hail Mary at the back end of the draft or even upgrading Jake Kelly are much preferable options.

 

[Team DJ]

What good is experience and talent if it's not put to use on game day. He's certainly experienced and talented at underachieving. He's about as valuable on the field as Brodie Martin. Do you see a 4 year contract in Brodie's immediate future. If we're going to be a legit top 4 team and flag chance Mackay is the prototype player that needs to be surpassed. Guys like that shouldn't be getting 4 year deals or $400k.

David McKays talent is far far greater then Brodie Martins. Martin is lucky to still be on the list. Shouldve been delisted years ago.

 

[Team DJ]

I show support because I still think he can be a very damaging player in a well coached, good side. Strongly with you in support of Reilly being delisted - absolutely pointless that he is going around again a hail Mary at the back end of the draft or even upgrading Jake Kelly are much preferable options.

Pointless????
He has a year to run on his contract. Either he misses out on a years pay by retiring or we delisted him and cop a whack in the salary cap.
He was never in any doubt of going around again.

 

[Paladin]

Pointless????
He has a year to run on his contract. Either he misses out on a years pay by retiring or we delisted him and cop a whack in the salary cap.
He was never in any doubt of going around again.

We are better off taking the hit and paying a rookie. At least the rookie has a shot at being a future player for us. Reilly offers nothing he won't play.

 

[1970crow]

$400k won't be the minimum salary but won't be far off the average salary in 4 years... & certainly not massively overs for MacKay like some have carried on about.

Ok, if we use $400k for Mackay;

Danger 850
Tex 700
Sloane 700
Sauce 550
Smith 550
Betts 600
Thommo 550
Tahlia 700
Douglas 500

Cap of 10m less assumed draftees/rookies = approx $9.5m. Remove the above and Mackay and we have $3.4m left. We have used 10 players of the starting 22. So if we assume that players 23-36 are on base only and no games = $83k x 14 =$1.16m, so across the other 12 of our best 22 we are left with an avge of about $185k.

Even with that generous method which assumes all non-best 22 players are on basic wage, Mackay is well above average amongst those outside of the best 9. And this deal is for 4 years and the bloke was dropped 1 season back and close last year. That is an over-priced contract and the fact that it runs 4 years is a disaster.

I'd be interested to see your calculations. I have tried to be conservative with those player values, but I feel the assumption that players ranked 23-36 are on base only more than covers errors at the top end.

 

[1970crow]

David McKays talent is far far greater then Brodie Martins. Martin is lucky to still be on the list. Shouldve been delisted years ago.

And yet their output on the park isn't much different. Mackay has had the luxury of lack of significant injury plus plenty of faith at the selection table. Just shows how wasted mackays talent has been and yet he's rewarded with one of the longest contracts provided to our current list. Perhaps Walsh will bring more out of Martin than Mackay. I suppose he's got 4 years to get a decent year out of Mackay though.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Will Mackay get a Brownlow vote by the time his contract expires?

 

[fabs33]

We are better off taking the hit and paying a rookie. At least the rookie has a shot at being a future player for us. Reilly offers nothing he won't play.

It's worth remembering that we're stuck with the rookie for the minimum of two years. Sometimes it's better to hold onto a player one more year and replacing him with a better prospect in the following draft than delisting a player before their contract runs out and filling their spot on the list with a rookie who is a long shot at making it. Personally as long as Reilly is playing in the SANFL and used only as a break glass in case of emergency option then I'm OK with it.

And I'm someone who has been very critical of Reilly.

 

[Paladin]

It's worth remembering that we're stuck with the rookie for the minimum of two years. Sometimes it's better to hold onto a player one more year and replacing him with a better prospect in the following draft than delisting a player before their contract runs out and filling their spot on the list with a rookie who is a long shot at making it. Personally as long as Reilly is playing in the SANFL and used only as a break glass in case of emergency option then I'm OK with it.

And I'm someone who has been very critical of Reilly.

Thats correct if we used the draft and I somewhat agree but If we upgraded say Jake Kelly he can be given a 1 year deal. That was my preferred option.

 

[fabs33]

Thats correct if we used the draft and I somewhat agree but If we upgraded say Jake Kelly he can be given a 1 year deal. That was my preferred option.

That's a better option in my book. I was just making the comparison between keeping him or replacing him with someone late in the draft, i.e. the "hail mary" you mentioned.

 

[FR0GGY]

Will Mackay get a Brownlow vote by the time his contract expires?

this contract or his next one?

 

[Coopers]

AAAAAAANYway.

I vote for Hendo.

He'll get games and I'm STILL not sure if he's ever "going to make it".

 

[Tex200]

Will Mackay get a Brownlow vote by the time his contract expires?

I'd settle for a top 5 in the club champion award - or how about just making the best players a few times in a season.

 

[Tex200]

Hendo and MacKay - pair of whipping boys if ever there was.

Right at the top of the list IMO

 

[Footypie32]

Matthew Wright

Congratulations Sir, you win.


deaneus give this man a prize. And to think you didn't even have him in the poll. Tsk tsk.

 

[Deaneus!]

I didn't think he'd come on as the whipping boy that quickly.

Although I'll argue at this stage, VB and Wright are the early leaders. There's still a whole bunch of season to go.