Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Yeah, it's just a coincidence that along with taking a heavy hand to protests, internet censorship, and a lack of a free press, it really seems unlucky to be journalists, politicians, business figures, lawyers, or activists that are critical of Putin and his government. Lucky for Putin so many of them have died mysteriously from natural causes such as poisoning, gunshot, assault, or falling out of windows, or are criminals, ending up in gaol.

The MSM is full of endless anti-Putin sentiment, yet somehow, there's a a striking absence of remotely similar accusations (let alone evidence to back them) in the serious academic works which touch on his time in the office, or indeed, Putin himself.

And no, neither of those things is a "coincidence."

 

[Bloods86]

The MSM is full of endless anti-Putin sentiment, yet somehow, there's a a striking absence of remotely similar accusations (let alone evidence to back them) in the serious academic works which touch on his time in the office, or indeed, Putin himself.

And no, neither of those things is a "coincidence."

Yeah of course, he's a stand up guy, just wants what's best for his people. That's why he carefully filters the information they receive to protect them, and doesn't want them gathering to protest, because they might catch cold. And again, he's just been really lucky that people who criticise him are really clumsy or can't keep themselves out of gaol.

 

[Crankyhawk]

You're cheering on Russian genocide here with your denialism.

I’d call it imperialistic expansionism and slaughter of civilians
(Genocide is a finnicky term with tricky definitions)

 

[Crankyhawk]

The MSM is full of endless anti-Putin sentiment, yet somehow, there's a a striking absence of remotely similar accusations (let alone evidence to back them) in the serious academic works which touch on his time in the office, or indeed, Putin himself.

And no, neither of those things is a "coincidence."

Um because it takes years to do research, and to get access to the source material you probably need to make like you will fellate Putin or have a history of doing so?

 

[Mobbs]

RF has gone Grozny again.

"Terrible consequences of the morning attack of the Russian Federation on Ukraine as of now.
In Kharkiv, 51 people were injured, 5 people died, 30 houses were seriously damaged. The hit to the gas pipeline was the largest since the beginning of winter. fire already liquidated;
22 people were injured in Kyiv, 13 of them are in hospital. One woman was resuscitated;
1 person died in Pavlograd;
The rescue operation is ongoing, information is being updated."
From [Trukha Ukraina] (post is 5 hours old as of now).

A couple of videos from the same channel.

Kyiv:
View attachment Kyiv_IMG_4564.mp4View attachment Kyiv_IMG_4567.mp4

Kharkiv:
View attachment Kharkiv_IMG_1812.MP4

Spoiler: potentially distressing footage of civilian injury

(compressed for Bigfooty limitations - original video is here)
View attachment Kharkiv_IMG_4406_(compressed).mp4

Update: 8 dead, 51 injured (I believe this is a reference to Kharkiv only but it could be from all of the attacks).

Spoiler: Following video is potentially upsetting as shows the body of a 9 year old girl being carried out.

View attachment video_2024-01-24_07-03-06(compressed).mp4
Compressed for Bigfooty. Original found at [R13 Donbas TG]

From SOTA in Russia, they report on the attacks. Today Kharkov was shelled three times: 8 people were killed, including a 9-year-old girl. The missiles also hit multi-storey buildings.

“Moskovsky Komsomolets”, (Pro-invasion Russian news source) in order to show footage of the shelling, came up with an excuse: “UAF facilities disguised as residential buildings were destroyed.”
[SOTA Project] [Twitter Moskovy Komsomolets]

 

[Mobbs]

The flag of Ukraine was raised in Crimea

"We unfurled the flag on one of the peaks of the Crimean mountains, Pakhkal-Kaya, to show the unity of the Ukrainian people, because Crimea is Ukraine! Today, the symbol of Ukraine flies over the top of Crimea, and very soon, with our joint efforts, we will decorate the entire peninsula with blue and yellow flags. Happy Independence Day, Ukraine! ", - reported the activists of "Yellow Ribbon"




From [Voice of Crimea TG]

 

[Mobbs]

Following all of this with great interest, seems pivotal to the next few months.

I lost your post to me, sorry. I'll try to find it again later.

 

[Mobbs]

There has been a ton of stories about petty level corruption within Ukraine during the war - like a lot of first-hand things reported I just take each one with a grain of salt and see what comes out further down the track. Certainly haven't heard much at all about Zelensky personally, more attempts to focus on his past, even from well before he became a politician.

Definitely there is still corruption in places in Ukraine as with everywhere. I believe Ukraine have made efforts to stamp a lot out, I also believe they have a long way to go.

From the perspective of the poor blokes doing the fighting, I was troubled to read in the BBC article from the other week that even front line troops seem to be buying part of their own gear in order to survive, which makes me wonder if down the track we might be reading about a bunch of people getting rich by redirecting supplies which were intended for the men fighting.

Yes Ukraine forces are often buying their own equipment (and getting heaps from supportive bloggers - I've contributed twice on different levels). Unsure how much is due to corruption versus that just do to insufficient support.

Russia has been harping on a lot about Ukraine conscripting all the Ukrainian citizens with non-Ukrainian ancestry first and sending them to the worst parts of the front, do you reckon there's anything to their claims? I mainly ask because, if so, that's the sort of word-of-mouth, spreads like wildfire, only needs a few examples type of report that could definitely make Ukraine's neighbours less supportive as things get harder.

I hadn't heard this claim. Sounds like an inversion, but if you can find something about it for me I'd be happy to look at it.

In all honesty, I'm pretty hung up on a personal level with the mobilisation legislation that things have got to a point they felt they had to include 'mildly disabled' people.

Again, would like to see te claims as I was unaware. Have seen similar claims in RF but also take those with a grain of salt.

 

[Mobbs]

Fico of Slovakia states that there is no war in Kyiv ... as missiles rain down on Kyiv:

There’s ‘no war in Kyiv,’ scoffs Slovakia’s Fico

Russia-friendly PM’s remarks land the same day Moscow bombards Ukraine’s capital with missiles.

www.politico.eu

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Visions]

Now its just that Putin sycophant from Hungary Orban who is holding out.

 

[Malifice]

I'm fully cooked

Yes you are, and keep the crap the Russians have told you to believe to the Conspiracy board with the other cookers thanks.

 

[wannabejack]

Pumped-Up By Russia's Loss, Ex-Soviet State Turkmenistan Looks To Expand Its Gas Market Into Europe

With 265 trillion cubic feet (Tcf) of proven gas reserves as of 2017, ranking 6th in the world and accounting for about 4% of the world’s total natural gas reserves of 6,923 Tcf, the Central Asian Republic of Turkmenistan is eager to expand its gas market. In July last year, Turkmenistan made a...

www.eurasiantimes.com

Conclusion
As long as the export of Russian gas to the EU states was assured, Russian gas continued to flow into the European markets. But realizing that Nord Stream I and II were no longer available and the pipeline agreement with Ukraine would terminate in 2024, the EU has roped in both Turkey and Azerbaijan to be the components of transportation of Turkmen gas to Europe.

Obviously, Azerbaijan will get the maximum benefit from this project. Maybe, once the TCP is brought to completion, it will help build a network of roads and bridges in the Trans-Caspian region and ultimately get linked to the North-South Corridor.

Japan to collaborate with Turkmenistan; eyes improving ties with Central Asian countries

Japan aims to counter China and Russia, which have been increasing their influence in recent years, by contributing to Central Asia in the environmental field. Turkmenistan is one of the world’s most resource-rich countries in terms of natural gas.

asianews.network

Economy, Trade and Industry Minister Ken Saito and Turkmenistan’s Deputy Prime Minister Rashid Meredov met in Tokyo and finalized the exchange of a memorandum of understanding on Monday. Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Ltd. and Itochu Corp. will work together on a major project that will utilize the country’s natural resources.

[Japan] ...signed a similar memorandum of understanding with Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan on Jan. 9. Japan is also seeking to strengthen ties with Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan.

 

[Zidane98]

Another spectacular vatnik post that aged well

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Visions]

Sketchy reports coming out about this at the moment.

Seems it happened just after takeoff from Belgorod, must have been a catastrophic failure or “friendly fire.”

Russians are saying it was carrying Ukrainian prisoners who were going to be exchanged, Ukraine seems to think it was full of S-300 missiles.

 

[Zidane98]

Sketchy reports coming out about this at the moment.

Seems it happened just after takeoff from Belgorod, must have been a catastrophic failure or “friendly fire.”

Russians are saying it was carrying Ukrainian prisoners who were going to be exchanged, Ukraine seems to think it was full of S-300 missiles.

Confirmed with video



Hilariously the Russians tried to claim it was full of Ukranian POWS being returned.... Because it would have been so difficult to drive them 30 miles to the border!

 

[Zidane98]

Former DPR fighter turned himself over to the ICC



Shocking stuff but unfortunately unsurprising.

 

[Zidane98]

Ha ha

 

[PeterSalt]

I thought I drop this in here for anyone who's still clinging to putin regime copium

The article in the link is worth a read

There's a reason the NYT is often referred to as the New Orc Times now

 

[Visions]

Confirmed with video



Hilariously the Russians tried to claim it was full of Ukranian POWS being returned.... Because it would have been so difficult to drive them 30 miles to the border!

Russias lies unravelling before everyones eyes (yet again).

They are so bad at proaganda but parrots out there keep on eating it up and repeating it (including some in this thread).

 

[Mobbs]

The fake list of POWs was supplied from other sources so it hasn't been useful either way at this point.

A couple of (somewhat vague) pieces of info - not clarifying so much as pointing at the muddy bits:

• If you hear argument about whether RF even transports prisoners by plane for exchanges : they do.
• If you hear there was no exchange planned, it's wrong : there was an exchange planned.
• If you hear there was a list of POWs but (at first 1 and later) half the names were of prisoners already exchanged at an earlier time : this list exists but RF didn't provide the list, bloggers (and possibly Simonyan?) did.
• If you hear anyone say the plane carried UKR POW's : this is currently unsubstantiated and definitely accused to be untrue. The claim it carried missiles is also currently unsubstantiated. It's agreed we'll likely discover it was one of these two claims which turns out to be true.
• If media give you a massive rundown of what's found on site, note that only official RF are allowed near the crash site, its cordoned off from anyone else including media. One or two photos of debris had leaked through, but no forensic evidence at this point.
• If you hear that it was shot down by RF air defense, this is unsubstantiated. This claim was an honest but kneejerk assumption by locals who noticed something, but there's no evidence of this yet.
• If you hear that the plane was loaded with RF troops, also unsubstantiated, and likely spread from a chat Putin had with a dignitary from Chad, whose mouth preceded his noggin in a press appearance with Vlad.
• If you learn that the plain was travelling away from Ukraine, not towards, its true this is a claim, but its potentially bloggers making stuff up.
• If you hear that RF didn't mention to UKR at the time any details like expect an aircraft in the air at x oclock which is carrying POWs for the exchange, this seems to be correct. There is usual protocol to trade info at these times so that a non-aggressive vehicle doesnt get targeted, but RF not only did not follow such protocol (seems true), they actually have a poor record of following it (media opinion).

My note: If RF are bullshitting, it's frightening to think RF have a need to construct a narrative about the loss of Ukrainian POWs, as that could be suggestive that they have been illegally executed already while imprisoned, or at least died of other causes in the meantime.

 

[Mobbs]

Boris Nadezhdin has apparently been gathering massive numbers of signatures (need a minimum to be able to run for the presidential election) however I can never find out any actual estimates of how close to meeting the target anyone is.

Seems at this rate United Russia will need to trump up a tiny random imaginary crime to keep him from running. But they have to have someone run against Putin so perhaps this is the one rando they'll let through, and then buy out.

 

[ibd77]

Seems at this rate United Russia will need to trump up a tiny random imaginary crime to keep him from running.

I think the way the Russian constitution has been modified during Putin's reign. Any alternate candidate can simply be disqualified just by getting out of the wrong side of the bed in the morning.

Putin made sure he put measures in place to prevent any candidates from contesting his presidency with trivial road blocks.

 

[Zidane98]

I think the way the Russian constitution has been modified during Putin's reign. Any alternate candidate can simply be disqualified just by getting out of the wrong side of the bed in the morning.

Putin made sure he put measures in place to prevent any candidates from contesting his presidency with trivial road blocks.

Very likely that any Russian politician who owns a blue & a yellow piece of clothing is excluded from the presidential race automatically and sent to prison for treason.