Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[sdfc]

People in the west, not fighting for their existence, measure these things in days or months.

If you're fighting for your life and existence and giving up all your wealth if you surrender, at what point are you willing to surrender? Resistance fighting is usually measured in years.

Afghanistan kicked out Russia in about 10 years. Eastern Europe took about 30. Ukraine might be able to do it faster. Might be longer.

Time = death in war. Surely a ceasefire would be better than nothing.

 

[Dom PC]

What a historically disgraceful day for the USA (no doubt 50% of their population won't think that way sadly). Treating an invited guest and "ally" like that in the White House is just thuggish and horrific behaviour.

I used to think Australia and the USA were similar countries with similar values. How wrong and native i was.

 

[tricknologist]

That incident wasn't surprising at all. Trump and those who surround him have had their brains cooked by pro-Kremlin propaganda and they're operating on a 19th century imperial understanding of international relations where strong nations dictate terms to weak nations so that they can extract wealth from them. One of the most depressing parts is that this will strengthen Trump in the eyes of his cult because they love strongmen, think that military assistance for Ukraine is parasitic, and many of them love Russia because they view it as a bastion of anti-woke politics. Also, none of them actually care about people dying in Ukraine. They only care about the mental inconvenience of thinking about the war. Hilary was right about the lot of them tbqh.

 

[Deliverance]

Zelensky all of a sudden in the good books. Even was called brave by Krasnov.



Remember when the press were hounding Biden about being senile....

Would be nice if they followed with th line of questioning rather than move on to the next question.

 

[wannabewinner]

Shitshow…. Captured for America’s craziest videos.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

That incident wasn't surprising at all. Trump and those who surround him have had their brains cooked by pro-Kremlin propaganda and they're operating on a 19th century imperial understanding of international relations where strong nations dictate terms to weak nations so that they can extract wealth from them. One of the most depressing parts is that this will strengthen Trump in the eyes of his cult because they love strongmen, think that military assistance for Ukraine is parasitic, and many of them love Russia because they view it as a bastion of anti-woke politics. Also, none of them actually care about people dying in Ukraine. They only care about the mental inconvenience of thinking about the war. Hilary was right about the lot of them tbqh.

I think you are right and the funny thing is that there is nothing strong about Trump, it’s the opposite

 

[Chadwiko]

What a historically disgraceful day for the USA (no doubt 50% of their population won't think that way sadly).

I don't really have anything else to add to this succinct and accurate summary.

The generational damage that occurred to the United States reputation on the world stage today will have wide-spread and long-term ramifications.

The sitting President of the United States sold out an ally in the Oval Office in favour of a tyrant.

That's end-of-empire stuff right there. Without hyperbole.

 

[CD Xbow]

I don't really have anything else to add to this succinct and accurate summary.

The generational damage that occurred to the United States reputation on the world stage today will have wide-spread and long-term ramifications.

The sitting President of the United States sold out an ally in the Oval Office in favour of a tyrant.

That's end-of-empire stuff right there. Without hyperbole.

We might have 2 empires thrashing around in their death throws. Both suffering imperial overreach, corruption and the greedy elites taking too much. In anticipation of further geopolitical changes I'm enrolling in some Mandarin lessons and removing all my posts critical of President Xi.

 

[Chadwiko]

 

[Chadwiko]

 

[Mobbs]

(This is an auto-translate from Russian so it's gonna have it's odd moments)

Zelensky's interview with Fox News journalist Brett Bayer lasted for half an hour. Main statements by the President of Ukraine
About the last meeting with Trump: "I think this [meeting] was not very good. "I just wanted to be honest so our partners would understand." "This [live conflict] is bad for both sides. But I cannot change the attitude of Ukrainians to Russians. They are our killers."
On the continuation of negotiations with the US: "Of course, I want to [have another meeting with Trump]. It's still more than two presidents. This is a historical relationship between the two nations. The Americans helped save the Ukrainian. People come first."
On the relations of the US president with Putin: "Trump said he wants to be neutral, he wants to put us [Russia and Ukraine] at the negotiating table. But I wish he was more on our side. It is important to understand that the war began when Russia invaded our country. Of course, all Ukrainians want the United States to be on our side."
On the possible signing of a fossil deal: "The United States is very eager to make this deal. We're down to a deal. She's been preparing for several weeks, I think countries should sign her. Ministers can do this, we need to discuss the next steps."
When asked by the presenter whether he thinks it is necessary to apologize to Trump, Zelensky did not respond positively. In response to the question whether I would return to the White House right now if that was the possibility, the President of Ukraine said: "No." About an hour ago, Trump said that Zelensky wanted to return to the White House, but the US president considered it impossible.

 

[wannabejack]

“Instead, Trump and Vance have revealed to Americans and to America’s allies their alignment with Russia, and their animosity toward Ukraine in general and its president in particular. The truth is ugly, but it’s necessary to face it,” said the report.
“Both the president and vice president showed the US-led alliance system something it needed urgently to know: The national-security system of the West is led by two men who cannot be trusted to defend America’s allies—and who deeply sympathize with the world’s most aggressive dictator,” Frum says.

 

[pjcrows]

The two sides of the Ukraine issue are so fundamentally opposed to each other in ideology (and even see two different realities) that it is obviously now fertile ground for trade wars, but ones that are likely to expand and ultimately explode in to global conflict.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

 

[Chief]

What a historically disgraceful day for the USA (no doubt 50% of their population won't think that way sadly). Treating an invited guest and "ally" like that in the White House is just thuggish and horrific behaviour.

I used to think Australia and the USA were similar countries with similar values. How wrong and native i was.

Trump: "But this will make great television."

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Is that “Racist Richard”

 

[Upstart Swan]

Richard Hanania is a right-wing nut job. That media conference argument is one of the most disturbing things I've seen on YouTube. Our world is controlled by gangsters in nice suits.

 

[wannabewinner]

Basically…. NATO is dead.

Europe is on it’s own.

 

[jatz14]

Lots of talk this morning that Ukraine and the US are making progress towards a minerals deal.

Seems strange to me as I don't see how it stops Russia from continuing the war, unless Trump has made some shady deal with Putin in the background.

Trump has used the pressure of wat

to get a deal he can trumpet at home. That it's a morally bankrupt corrupt deal is irrelevant
If his supporters cared about such things they wouldn't be his supporters.

Zelensky is using the deal to keep the US involved. Russia was hoping the US withdrawing all support would force Ukraine to concede, but this deal makes that unlikely.

There is a reason Putin offered to supply those rare earths. For Russia, spending $400 billion of rare earths to get the US to completely withdraw all support would be a bargain.

Trump is now saying, deal soon, or not at all.
I'm betting it's not at all.


On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[tricknologist]

That tweet by that pseud Hanania is total rubbish. The argument started because Zelensky asked Vance how you're supposed to do diplomacy with a power that refuses to negotiate in good faith (which Ukraine knows from experience having tried to negotiate with Putin in the past) and then Vance tried to redirect by calling Zelensky disrespectful because he didn't have a proper answer. Vance is a typical thug who expects people to roll over for him because of his position.

 

[Vindicater]

That tweet by that pseud Hanania is total rubbish. The argument started because Zelensky asked Vance how you're supposed to do diplomacy with a power that refuses to negotiate in good faith (which Ukraine knows from experience having tried to negotiate with Putin in the past) and then Vance tried to redirect by calling Zelensky disrespectful because he didn't have a proper answer. Vance is a typical thug who expects people to roll over for him because of his position.

It was telling when Zelensky asked Vance if he had been to Ukraine and Vance went to lie and say he has but quickly changed to how he had 'heard' stories.

 

[Cooldude]

US is now a Russia vassal state, it was evident in the 1st term that Putin has some massive leverage on Trump, must have some damaging dirt

If Trump isn't a dick rider for Putin then any reasonable man would know Russia is on the brink of collapse if he'd just keep arming Ukraine, he could be the man that took down Putin. Instead he's hell bent on being a dick rider, the only explanation is that Krasnov is compromised in some way

 

[Jello_B]

Is there a link anywhere to the 40 minute video?

 

[Zidane98]

Zelensky should say he agrees to all of Adolf Putin's demands.

But only on the condition they meet in The Hague to sign the agreement.

 

[pjcrows]

Rubio: "Maybe Zelenskyy doesn't want peace and isn't giving us a choice"

Graham: "Zelenskyy trying to corner the US President in his office is leaving the US with little choice"

Groundwork laid for a deal elsewhere (i.e. Putin)