Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[wannabejack]

 

[peetoo]

Did any single country ever benefit from the US ‘backing’ them?

Russia certainly knew if they dug in long enough, america would lose interest

*except for global conflicts

 

[liz]

Did any single country ever benefit from the US ‘backing’ them?

Russia certainly knew if they dug in long enough, america would lose interest

*except for global conflicts

Israel? Though that's from the perspective of the current Israeli, ultra-right wing government that wants to expunge the Palestinian population from "its territory". Maybe learning to live alongside Palestinians would be better in the long run.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Did any single country ever benefit from the US ‘backing’ them?

Russia certainly knew if they dug in long enough, america would lose interest

*except for global conflicts

Modern day Iraq after 20 years of investment?

 

[Upstart Swan]

Is there a link anywhere to the 40 minute video?

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Plenty in here think trump should just put Zelensky on his teat and blast Putin as if that will bring peace. Ffs.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Here's a deal for all those angry posters out there.
I'll stop repeating that Russia is not an imperialist power if you stop falsely claiming that it is.

Would highlighting the invasions of other countries be seen as calling Russia imperialist?

 

[tricknologist]

Would highlighting the invasions of other countries be seen as calling Russia imperialist?

Nah but you see Russia isn't actually imperialist according to his convoluted (pseudo)scientific Marxist analysis of their actions

 

[peetoo]

Plenty in here think trump should just put Zelensky on his teat and blast Putin as if that will bring peace. Ffs.

Maybe, but he’s far from tithe great deal maker in his own mind. The conflict has weakened Russia somewhat too

 

[peetoo]

Modern day Iraq after 20 years of investment?

I seem to remember they invaded Iraq

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Maybe, but he’s far from tithe great deal maker in his own mind. The conflict has weakened Russia somewhat too

The soviets are still way stronger than Zelensky. If Zelensky doesn’t pull his head in, bad things will come rightly or wrongly.

 

[Mobbs]

Trump trying to tell Zelensky that people are dying. That's why he's ****ing there you ****ing nutcase.
"To restart talks, he (Zelensky) has to say: 'I want to make peace'. Not Putin this Putin that. People are dying, he doesn't have the cards, you must understand".
The audicity to think he can lecture Zelensky on what to do. In this tempo, the world will abandon the US. - [NOEL Reports TG]

Apparently Zelensky needs to be thankful that the Minsk agreements were ignored, that assistance was provided at a highly suspicious trickle, that it dried up entirely based on white house idiots blocking it, that he is labelled a "dictator" by the nutter in front of him who along with Vance launched into a tirade of insulting falsities last week aimed AT Zelensky .

Trump should be more thankful that Ukraine has taken a burden off the USA: that of the world's defender of freedom.

In other news, Ukrainian government voted on the question of Zelensky's legitimacy as president of the country.

Includes all representatives of opposing parties and potentially suggestive that any planted pro-Russian hopefuls are either successfully extracted or are too scared to give away their intentions.

Edit: Forgot to give the translation: Za = for (268), Proti = against (0), dunno for sure what utrimalis' means (0), ne golosyubali (0) is for abstentions, and vs'ogo (280) is just the total.

 

[Mobbs]

Russia launched a massive drone attack on Kharkiv overnight. At least 7 injured. A medical facility destroyed, over 60 patients evacuated (mostly bedridden). Homes, a car dealership, a gas station, and a hypermarket damaged. - [NOEL Reports TG]
View attachment IMG_8707.MP4

 

[Mobbs]

Russians trying to resist being forced into the meat grinder against their will, not even offered arrest/imprisonment as an alternative.
Always remember that we are commonly told that Russia's army is volunteer while Ukraine's is not .

From [ASTRA TG] - the referenced video can be found via the link, 2 minutes long, but no english translation.

"We ask for support, we don't want to just die," — a video recorded by Russian servicemen in Yekaterinburg before an attempt to forcibly send them to war in Ukraine.

As ASTRA reported earlier, more than 100 servicemen of the Russian Armed Forces who refused to fight were forcibly put on buses and taken from Chebarkul to Yekaterinburg the day before, on February 28. There, the men were placed in a tent city and an attempt was made to force them onto a plane to be sent to Rostov and then to Ukraine, but the servicemen "staged a riot."

"Hello, citizens! A detachment of SOC residents (who left their unit without permission) is contacting you. There are more than 150 of us here. We are in Yekaterinburg, at the airport. They want to force us on board. They illegally and forcibly put us on buses and brought us here. At the moment, they want to force us on board. We refuse this board. They are not providing us with investigators or prosecutors here so that we can write reports. They themselves say: write reports, but they themselves do not provide anyone. <…> Right now they want to send us to Ukraine - to our death. We ask that we be convicted, but no one gives us such an opportunity. <…> We ask for support, we do not want to just die. Some have children, we have disabled people here, everyone is wounded, sick. <…> This is outrageous," the servicemen said in a video recorded on the evening of February 28.

On February 28 at 11 p.m. Yekaterinburg time, the men were unable to board the scheduled flight to Rostov-on-Don, and on the morning of March 1 they disappeared from contact.

Earlier post on the same topic ([ASTRA TG]) :

About 100 Russian Armed Forces servicemen who refused to fight were forcibly held in a tent city in Yekaterinburg. Relatives claim that a "riot began" there, and that the men disappeared from contact in the morning

The day before, on February 28, about 100 servicemen of the Russian Armed Forces, who for various reasons refused to fight in Ukraine (some of them move on crutches due to injuries), were forcibly put on buses from the military commandant's office in Chebarkul, Chelyabinsk region, and taken to Yekaterinburg. There, the men were placed in a tent city 20 kilometers from Koltsovo airport. (ASTRA has the exact geolocation of the city). The men demanded to be given the opportunity to write a report on their refusal to continue serving and tried to call investigators to the scene. Instead, they tried to forcibly put the refusers on a plane to send them to Rostov and then to Ukraine, but the servicemen "staged a riot." The mother of one of the servicemen, his friend and girlfriend told ASTRA about this, and the servicemen themselves spoke about it in a video that ASTRA has.

« Today is 02/28/2025 year. Here, they gathered everyone. There should have been an investigation, but without an investigation and trial, all the cripples, without any medical care. At the VVK we are all healthy, however, you see that we are standing on sticks and crutches. We are barely holding on, but they send us. The hospital did not accept us, they also send us to the units, they said that we are nobody, traitors to the motherland. We agree to continue serving, but we ask to be treated and operated on. Many guys were supposed to be hospitalized today, but they loaded us onto buses and took us here - to Koltsovo airport. After which they want to send us behind the ribbon. Where is justice? For what and for whom are we fighting then, if no one needs us,” the men said the day before in a video from the tent city, which is at the disposal of ASTRA.

The servicemen who were forcibly sent to war are listed in various military units, they were delivered to Chebarkul for the period of preliminary investigation and trial, as "servicemen whose actions provide for signs of a crime under Article 337 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (unauthorized abandonment of the unit)", follows from an extract from the order of the head of the Chebarkul local garrison, which is at the disposal of ASTRA. According to the document, servicemen from military units: 35390, 31134, 01005, 01007, 41867, 95378, 16544 and others were there.

According to the mother of one of the servicemen, more than 100 soldiers from units all over the Russian Federation who refused to fight for various reasons were brought from Chebarkul to the tent city in Yekaterinburg.

The men were supposed to be sent from Yekaterinburg on a flight to Rostov-on-Don at 11 p.m. the night before, but they refused to board the plane, "staging a mutiny," according to the mother, friend and girlfriend of one of the soldiers. He stopped responding in the morning.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Plenty in here think trump should just put Zelensky on his teat and blast Putin as if that will bring peace. Ffs.

Don't tell us how we should feel.

You are dictating to us. Don't dictate to us.

 

[Mobbs]

Pokrovsk area of the invasion had crawled to almost a standstill over the last 3 weeks, and more recently the Ukrainian forces have performed multiple counters, retaking Kotlyne and Pitschane, as well as challenging control of Lysivka. Kotlyne is located on a rail line - while the rail system itself is useless here, it's a valuable control point. Further east, a connecting road has moved back into a contested status.

Pokrovsk somehow is still not taken, after such an extended and expensive Russian period of assault.

My own edits added to denote the spots referenced.



Other areas of heat include just north of Kupyansk where RF makes some advance (unsure over last couple of days tho), Kursk / Sudha where both sides are to-ing and fro-ing over quite a while now, and Toretsk where Ukraine have performed a very noteworthy network of counters which have changed the points of control quite substantially.

Note that we are commonly reminded that Russia takes more ground every day. Maybe they're stealing trowels of it and delivering it to their loved ones one tupperware container at a time.

 

[Mobbs]

Don't tell us how we should feel.

You are dictating to us. Don't dictate to us.

I demand compensation for being caused to visualise Trump's teat!

 

[IlovethePies]

The project of turning Ukraine into a NATO garrison state now spans five administrations, Democratic and Republican alike. Beginning with the declaration by the Bush administration in 2008 that Ukraine “will become” a NATO member, the United States and its NATO allies have expended hundreds of billions of dollars and staked the reputation of US imperialism on the project of using Ukraine as a lever to destabilize and, it was hoped, destroy Russia.

The Ukraine war was the central foreign policy project of the Biden administration. By drawing Russia into a war on its borders, the Biden administration hoped to unify the NATO alliance under US hegemony.

The televised shouting match between Zelensky in one corner and Vance/Trump in the othe exposed the crisis that has been triggered by the failure of the US-NATO war against Russia in Ukraine and the growing confrontation between the United States and the European imperialist powers.

 

[IlovethePies]

As Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth explained earlier this month, “Stark strategic realities prevent the United States of America from being primarily focused on the security of Europe. … The US is prioritizing deterring war with China in the Pacific, recognizing the reality of scarcity, and making the resourcing tradeoffs.”

On January 7, just two weeks before taking office, Trump raised the prospect of using military force to annex Greenland, an overseas territory of Denmark, a member of both NATO and the European Union.

Just two days ahead of his meeting with Zelensky, Trump announced that the United States would impose 25 percent tariffs on goods from the European Union, declaring that the EU was formed “to screw the United States.”

The existence of NATO itself is now a moot question.

 

[peetoo]

Russia launched a massive drone attack on Kharkiv overnight. At least 7 injured. A medical facility destroyed, over 60 patients evacuated (mostly bedridden). Homes, a car dealership, a gas station, and a hypermarket damaged. - [NOEL Reports TG]
View attachment 2238031

Putin talking to bibi?

 

[peetoo]

As Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth explained earlier this month, “Stark strategic realities prevent the United States of America from being primarily focused on the security of Europe. … The US is prioritizing deterring war with China in the Pacific, recognizing the reality of scarcity, and making the resourcing tradeoffs.”

On January 7, just two weeks before taking office, Trump raised the prospect of using military force to annex Greenland, an overseas territory of Denmark, a member of both NATO and the European Union.

Just two days ahead of his meeting with Zelensky, Trump announced that the United States would impose 25 percent tariffs on goods from the European Union, declaring that the EU was formed “to screw the United States.”

The existence of NATO itself is now a moot question.

Get your Fukien bases out of Europe then?

 

[Mobbs]

Putin talking to bibi?

Who's Bibi? I googled and got a Korean musician.

 

[IlovethePies]

Trump trying to tell Zelensky that people are dying. That's why he's ****ing there you ****ing nutcase.
"To restart talks, he (Zelensky) has to say: 'I want to make peace'. Not Putin this Putin that. People are dying, he doesn't have the cards, you must understand".
The audicity to think he can lecture Zelensky on what to do. In this tempo, the world will abandon the US.

In case you haven't noticed, the current US administration does not care if this happens, and in fact is encouraging it.

Trump should be more thankful that Ukraine has taken a burden off the USA: that of the world's defender of freedom.

The US was never the world's "defender of freedom", and nor is Ukraine. The US is a defender of US imperialism, and Ukraine has until now been its proxy. When the proxy master abandons its proxy, things get ugly.

 

[IlovethePies]

"Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems,” Vance said.
First correct statement (and probably the last) ever coming from Vance.

“You’re not in a very good position,” Trump added. “You’re gambling with the lives of millions of people, you’re gambling with World War III.” He added, “Your country is in big trouble. You’re not winning this.”
First correct statement (and probably the last) ever coming from Trump.

No, Trump is not some clone of Putin - ie a "Krasnov" . He is a fascist who happens to also be the president of the US, and he is expressing the viewpoint of powerful sections of the US capitalist class which view the failed war against Russia as a millstone around their neck which must be thrown off immediately so that they can focus on dominating South and North America, and building a launch pad to take on the main adversary: China....and secondary enemies such as Europe.

 

[peetoo]

The project of turning Ukraine into a NATO garrison state now spans five administrations, Democratic and Republican alike. Beginning with the declaration by the Bush administration in 2008 that Ukraine “will become” a NATO member, the United States and its NATO allies have expended hundreds of billions of dollars and staked the reputation of US imperialism on the project of using Ukraine as a lever to destabilize and, it was hoped, destroy Russia.

The Ukraine war was the central foreign policy project of the Biden administration. By drawing Russia into a war on its borders, the Biden administration hoped to unify the NATO alliance under US hegemony.

The televised shouting match between Zelensky in one corner and Vance/Trump in the othe exposed the crisis that has been triggered by the failure of the US-NATO war against Russia in Ukraine and the growing confrontation between the United States and the European imperialist powers.

European imperialist powers? Vance said they’re woke commies who love refugees