Warner

[Belnakor]

Although to be fair, there a few recently retired guys like Kallis, Jaya and Sanga who had unusually high averages, especially Sanga and Kallis.

Graeme Smith's average wasn't far off fifty and he wasn't considered that good a batsman by many.

The main thing to consider is also how much these guys played against the minnows. Sanga for example is a top class batsman - but his averaged was raised by 5 due his rampant scoring against zim and bangas (averaging almost 100 against them)

 

[Belnakor]

Just read the average first innings score from 2000-2013 was 344 and between 1980-99 it was 316.

So by that logic and if 2nd innings are similar averages are up by 2.8 or so from that period

would need to consider also

1) minnows
2) the improvement of the tail.

Back in the 80s it was fine to be a "mug with the bat" at no.11 you'd have genuine bunnys like Walsh, Mcgrath who averaged sub 5. These guys not being able to swing the bat is considered to be a serious issue.

 

[Belnakor]

I didn't say less than the 80s but not many, if any more.

I had a look around at current players and those averaging over 50 (those who have played more than 10 tests), they are:

Smith
Warner
Younis Khan
De kock
Kohli
Root

That's 6, and I would be guessing de kock's doesn't stay there

would be surprised if De Kock, Kohli and Warner end up above 50. Root is bloody solid.

Looking at Khan's record it is actually really solid - not many holes in it (ie: like Kolhi in england or ponting in India)

 

[PhatBoy]

would be surprised if De Kock, Kohli and Warner end up above 50. Root is bloody solid.

Looking at Khan's record it is actually really solid - not many holes in it (ie: like Kolhi in england or ponting in India)

De Kock is what, 22 or something? Given how much Smith, Kohli, Root and Williamson improved after they turned 24 or 25 I don't see any reason why he wouldn't maintain it. His style and the keeping factor could hinder it but he should get plenty of not outs too

 

[Belnakor]

De Kock is what, 22 or something? Given how much Smith, Kohli, Root and Williamson improved after they turned 24 or 25 I don't see any reason why he wouldn't maintain it. His style and the keeping factor could hinder it but he should get plenty of not outs too

keeping will grind him down unless he transitions to a pure batsman. A huge talent i would think he probably should once he gets a bit older.

 

[Damon_3388]

would be surprised if De Kock, Kohli and Warner end up above 50. Root is bloody solid.

Looking at Khan's record it is actually really solid - not many holes in it (ie: like Kolhi in england or ponting in India)

Don't really see why Kohli won't stay at 50+

 

[Belnakor]

Don't really see why Kohli won't stay at 50+

would depend how much cricket he plays in england/SA i'd imagine.

 

[Blue1980]

The main thing to consider is also how much these guys played against the minnows. Sanga for example is a top class batsman - but his averaged was raised by 5 due his rampant scoring against zim and bangas (averaging almost 100 against them)

Reducing his overall average to 53-54, good point.

That kind of terrible opposition didn't exist in the 80s or 90s.

Lots of mediocrity but not outright crap

 

[Blue1980]

would need to consider also

1) minnows
2) the improvement of the tail.

Back in the 80s it was fine to be a "mug with the bat" at no.11 you'd have genuine bunnys like Walsh, Mcgrath who averaged sub 5. These guys not being able to swing the bat is considered to be a serious issue.

I agree that probably makes up a large difference as well to the overall scores.

Lyon bats at 11 for us and is a very respectable tailender. Certainly better than most 8-11s from the 80s.

So overall difference in averages probably not that huge.

Also not taken into account is I am sure if we picked a point in time of say 1987 all of Viv, AB and Miandad probably had higher averages than what they ended up with.

Most of the time there is a dip towards the end of a players career. I would be very surprised if smith ended up with an average of 60, more likely 52 or so. Pontings got up to 58 or so around the 06-07 ashes.

Don't think Warner's will end over 50 either, most likely 46-47.

Root I think will remain over 50, de kock no, Amla no and AB de Villiers unsure

 

[Topkent]

Thing about De Kock and Warner is like Gilchrist they rely on their eye more so than technique so their is every chance they struggle for a few years at the end like Gilchrist did and drop 5 or 6 off their average

 

[PhatBoy]

Thing about De Kock and Warner is like Gilchrist they rely on their eye more so than technique so their is every chance they struggle for a few years at the end like Gilchrist did and drop 5 or 6 off their average

I think both have good eyes but they also generally have good techniques as well. Warner has one of the best defences in the Australian team and de Kock doesn't seem to battle either. I think a lot of players get burdened with the 'eye player' tag because they score quick or hit the ball hard - I don't necessarily agree with that. Smith to me defines the term eye player - the amount of times he is in all sorts and manages to take a ball from a dangerous spot and turn it into runs is phenomenal. Sehwag was an eye player, de villiers is a bit of both.

 

[Topkent]

I think both have good eyes but they also generally have good techniques as well. Warner has one of the best defences in the Australian team and de Kock doesn't seem to battle either. I think a lot of players get burdened with the 'eye player' rage because they score quick or hit the ball hard - I don't necessarily agree with that. Smith to me defines the term eye player - the amount of times he is in all sorts and manages to take a ball from a dangerous spot and turn it into runs is phenomenal. Sehwag was an eye player, de villiers is a bit of both.

The eye comment isn't necessarily about their defense though, for instance someone like Rogers could be successful till he was 37 because he had a solid test technique that relied on playing straight and picking off poor balls. He didn't have to change his technique through his career

Warner for instance picks up length incredibly fast and dispatches good balls for 4, problem is when he gets to 34 he won't pick them up as fast and will still attempt the same shots like Gilchrist and Hayden were doing and probably struggle for a while
Hayden changed in the last few years and ground out his innings after some really poor form

My question would be weather Warner can maintain the way he plays when he's older without his average falling

 

[STFU Donnie]

I notice that this thread sort of went dormant in 2017. I was wondering, how was 2018 for Warner?

 

[Blue Arrow]

Year

Mat

Inns

NO

100s

50s

0s

HS

Runs

Avg

S/R

Ca

St

2011​

3​

6​

2​

1​

0​

0​

123*​

195​

48.75​

68.90​

5​

0​

2012​

11​

18​

0​

2​

4​

0​

180​

788​

43.78​

74.83​

9​

0​

2013​

12​

24​

1​

2​

6​

2​

124​

909​

39.52​

66.79​

7​

0​

2014​

9​

18​

0​

6​

3​

1​

145​

1136​

63.11​

81.90​

5​

0​

2015​

13​

24​

0​

4​

7​

2​

253​

1317​

54.88​

81.85​

11​

0​

2016​

11​

19​

1​

2​

2​

1​

144​

748​

41.56​

86.88​

4​

0​

2017​

11​

21​

1​

4​

4​

0​

123​

997​

49.85​

63.67​

12​

0​

2018​

4​

7​

0​

0​

3​

0​

63​

273​

39.00​

65.00​

1​

0​

2019​

9​

16​

1​

2​

1​

3​

335*​

725​

48.33​

62.29​

14​

0​

2020​

1​

2​

1​

1​

0​

0​

111*​

156​

156.00​

65.27​

0​

0​

2021​

2​

4​

0​

0​

0​

0​

48​

67​

16.75​

57.76​

1​

0​

Overall (11)​

86​

159​

7​

24​

30​

9​

335*​

7311​

48.10​

72.68​

69​

0​

That's his career by year. 2019 was The Ashes where he average 9, then he came home and flogged Pakistan.

 

[t_94]

Maybe I’m reading too much in to it, but is he a bit disengaged playing test cricket now? Or is he just not giving anything away in light of his ban?

 

[Belnakor]

Maybe I’m reading too much in to it, but is he a bit disengaged playing test cricket now? Or is he just not giving anything away in light of his ban?

he still loves test cricket. He played the last series on one leg. I just think he is approaching the end and will transition to a travelling t20 player at some point.

he is a top class batsman against sub par bowling which is why he kills it in the ipl.

 

[Pippen94]

Year

Mat

Inns

NO

100s

50s

0s

HS

Runs

Avg

S/R

Ca

St

2011​

3​

6​

2​

1​

0​

0​

123*​

195​

48.75​

68.90​

5​

0​

2012​

11​

18​

0​

2​

4​

0​

180​

788​

43.78​

74.83​

9​

0​

2013​

12​

24​

1​

2​

6​

2​

124​

909​

39.52​

66.79​

7​

0​

2014​

9​

18​

0​

6​

3​

1​

145​

1136​

63.11​

81.90​

5​

0​

2015​

13​

24​

0​

4​

7​

2​

253​

1317​

54.88​

81.85​

11​

0​

2016​

11​

19​

1​

2​

2​

1​

144​

748​

41.56​

86.88​

4​

0​

2017​

11​

21​

1​

4​

4​

0​

123​

997​

49.85​

63.67​

12​

0​

2018​

4​

7​

0​

0​

3​

0​

63​

273​

39.00​

65.00​

1​

0​

2019​

9​

16​

1​

2​

1​

3​

335*​

725​

48.33​

62.29​

14​

0​

2020​

1​

2​

1​

1​

0​

0​

111*​

156​

156.00​

65.27​

0​

0​

2021​

2​

4​

0​

0​

0​

0​

48​

67​

16.75​

57.76​

1​

0​

Overall (11)​

86​

159​

7​

24​

30​

9​

335*​

7311​

48.10​

72.68​

69​

0​

That's his career by year. 2019 was The Ashes where he average 9, then he came home and flogged Pakistan.

That's a great record

 

[The 747]

he still loves test cricket. He played the last series on one leg. I just think he is approaching the end and will transition to a travelling t20 player at some point.

he is a top class batsman against sub par bowling which is why he kills it in the ipl.

Looking forward to the day he is gone from the Australian team.

 

[The Passenger]

Home average of 63, away/neutral average 34.

He's no Robinson Crusoe in terms of performance disparity between home and away matches of modern cricketers (particularly batsmen), but is certainly one of it's leading antagonists.

 

[corbies]

Home average of 63, away/neutral average 34.

He's no Robinson Crusoe in terms of performance disparity between home and away matches of modern cricketers (particularly batsmen), but is certainly one of it's leading antagonists.

An away average of 34 usually gets you in the top 3 averages on a standard away tour for Australia tbf to him.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Looking forward to the day he is gone from the Australian team.

Gee, I'm not.

For all of his personal faults he's an amazing fieldsman and a great batsman to watch on his day. His frailties overseas are hardly unique to him these days as well.

 

[Leeda]

scum bags.. yes you know who you are.. denigrating my personal favourite and say what..?

 

[Gethelred]

This dude is going to be reviled for the rest of his life post career. I can't help but feel a bit sorry for him.

As much as it has to do with his ball-tampering, it's also got a bit to do with him being pretty bloody good at cricket for a bit, and his coach (Lehmann) encouraging him to behave like a dickhead.

It's kind of shit. People treating him worse than Stephen Milne, when there are at least two blokes (Lehmann and Smith) who have been rehabilitated and accepted back into everyone's graces.

 

[Leeda]

This dude is going to be reviled for the rest of his life post career. I can't help but feel a bit sorry for him.

As much as it has to do with his ball-tampering, it's also got a bit to do with him being pretty bloody good at cricket for a bit, and his coach (Lehmann) encouraging him to behave like a dickhead.

It's kind of sh*t. People treating him worse than Stephen Milne, when there are at least two blokes (Lehmann and Smith) who have been rehabilitated and accepted back into everyone's graces.

you brought up Stevie Milne.. that well creates a conundrum.. don't like him and he got chucked in then end.. but the sense is
still the same.. we don't all like the same plebs and we also are thinking different to everyone else.

 

[Pippen94]

Guy rushed back with dodgy groin to help Australia in last test series. Keep throwing mud at him