We suck!

[PJ Power]

Porthos, some time ago, you raised a concern at which players we could put up as trade bait.

5AA was inundated with calls from Crows supporters on Saturday pleading for tough decisions to be made to get decent players/draft picks to the club.

St Kilda gave up Everitt and Hall for a longterm gain.

Right now who are the 3-4 players who you would realistically use as trade bait with the aim of bringing in top10 players or top20 draft picks?

Mine:
Dew
Lade
Schofield (if takers)
Seriously thinking about Thurstans (I will probably get shot for suggesting that)
Wakelin (if takers - won't be any)

I reckon then we run dry.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by PJ Power
Hang on. It's not just about being harder. It is about being lighter, fitter, faster. Being able to take a one-on-one mark. That effort against Harvey in the BP yesterday was pretty lame, considering hte size disparity.

Harvey isn't exactly a stringbean himself.

Stuey has had seven years to show us that he can get his body right to be a versatile player. I reckon if he had the speed and stamina to play in the midfield then he would have had more time there. Early in his career, even Williams tried to play him on a wing.

As I recall, his best football has been when he's been on a wing. You'll note that since 2002 we only ever seem to see him as a receiving half forward.

Dew & Francis were deadly - remember the Floodbuster?

How can he play anywhere near the midfield when he just doesn't get to contests to get the footy?

How can he get anywhere near contests to get the footy when he doesn't play anywhere near the midfield?

 

[PJ Power]

I am hearing more and more from these posts, that people believe that the answer is simple: get rid of the coach.

I still think we need a different type of player in our club. Maybe a new coach will bring the best out of our underachievers, but it means that we better get the right coach.

 

[Ateen7tee]

Originally posted by PJ Power

I fear no-one will take Schofield now that he is 29.

The fact that he was out-bodied by Michael Stevens, thus allowing him to take a one handed mark, was the final nail in any future potential trade in any case.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by PJ Power
Right now who are the 3-4 players who you would realistically use as trade bait with the aim of bringing in top10 players or top20 draft picks?

Mine:
Dew
Lade
Schofield (if takers)
Seriously thinking about Thurstans (I will probably get shot for suggesting that)
Wakelin (if takers - won't be any)

I reckon then we run dry.

Dew may give us a top 20 pick if we target the right club.

Lade may also get us a handy player or top 25 draft pick.

Schofield wont get us anything. Nor will Wakelin.

If Thurstans gets us a reasonable player or a top 20 draft pick i will gladly dance around Adelaide naked whilst singing the club song.

To trade quality we must give up quality.

S Burgoyne, P Burgoyne, Dew, Chaplin, Wilson, Surjan, Pettigrew, K Cornes.

Im not suggesting we trade any of those guys but these are the names we will have to give up to get something worthwhile.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by PJ Power
Right now who are the 3-4 players who you would realistically use as trade bait with the aim of bringing in top10 players or top20 draft picks?

Pretty much none of them. The yougn ones we won't get avlue for as they haven't had a standout year, the old ones are too old, and the mid-20s players are mostly either required players or widely considered to be underperformers.

I can see why you want to trade Dew, but I think we'd lose on a trade like that because his upside is very big.

If I had to throw a name out, Kane Cornes maybe. He's looking pretty good at the moment, but I just don't think he's got it.

If we trade players away this year, I think it'll either be because they want to go, or it'll be someone like Poulton for a third round pick or similar.....nothing at the high end.

 

[Andre]

Originally posted by gbear
We need to develop our existing list, get rid of the old, slow players such as Wakelin and Hardwick, as well as those who have under performed in the past few seasons.

Hardwick has already stated it's his last year.

Wakelin - well originally I think the plan was to have him for 2004 and 2005, but agree that it's now end of this year he should go.

Schofield has zero trade value, but that shouldn't save him.

Dew should be played at HF 60 out, or on a wing. Choco doesn't make good use of his abilities.

Shuan Burgoyne - no disagreements he needs to work on the defensive side of his game. However he's looked (to me) much better the last 4 weeks - when not at FF. If Choco would stop persisting with this idea he's a FF and short term play him in defense to help him improve that defensive side of his game and longer term in the midfield, he'll be a top player for us.

Lade - and replace with who ? Ackland ? We don't have the ruck depth we had anymore. We have Primus, Brogan, Lade and Ackland. Ackland, short of a major turnaround won't be a decent ruckman - but due to big men taking longer to develop will probably get one last year in 2005. Primus is a champion ruckman - but his body I fear can't handle rucking anymore and he'll become our 'Lynch'. That leaves Brogan and Lade till we can draft and develop a young ruckman. Won't be traded because of this.

Mahoney - just not AFL standard. Better to take a punt on a youngster who has the room for improvement. He's a known quantity - that quantity being a lack of quality.

Ackland - useless, but until we draft another ruckman who looks at least half promising will remain as the known 'evil'.

Champion - has to stay uninjured for long enough to get some games to see if he can play.

Hall - see Champion. Hall especially this year is the year we should be playing him (when fit) to see is he worth keeping. Yes, there's a risk a player traded will do well for the new club, but Port (Mr. Conservative again ?) go overboard with this and want to hold onto youngsters till their trade value is almost nothing - see Morgan, Koula, M. Stevens, etc.

RFK - must get some games - how can we tell if it was worth the punt ?

As I see it there's only 4 definite delistings/trades (so far) at the end of year - Hardwick, Wakelin, Schoey and Mahoney. For me I'd add in Hall, RFK and Champion if they can't show form this year (must be played - and played means more then 5 minutes off the bench) then don't keep holding on in hope eternally AGAIN.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by Poet from Port
The fact that he was out-bodied by Michael Stevens, thus allowing him to take a one handed mark, was the final nail in any future potential trade in any case.

Ugh.

 

[Portmanteau]

We'd be looking at 2nd rounders respectively for Dew and Lade... maybe a late first rounder for Dewy.

Schofield could attract interest from clubs looking for a bit of depth. Look at Justin Murphy - someone will always take a punt. 3rd rounder.

Someone like the Bulldogs would loan Wakelin for a couple of years for a 3rd rounder also. I could also see WB going after Thurstans to re-unite our 3rd string defensive line. They'd probably have an early second rounder, which is about right, but knowing us we'll swing a last minute deal to Brisbane for a 5th rounder.

 

[Ateen7tee]

Originally posted by Macca19

If Thurstans gets us a reasonable player or a top 20 draft pick i will gladly dance around Adelaide naked whilst singing the club song.

So that was you I saw out that day shortly after the Pickett trade was finalised!

 

[sog35]

Originally posted by Poet from Port
The fact that he was out-bodied by Michael Stevens, thus allowing him to take a one handed mark, was the final nail in any future potential trade in any case.

It was because Schofield was exhausted chasing after the man with a unique blend of speed and endurance.

 

[PJ Power]

Points taken Porthos.

But:

1. Remind me of how many marks Dewy takes in contests or above his head, whether playing as a forward or elsewhere.

2. Why should a HFF be a receiver? Is it the position that makes the player a receiver or the player himself?

3. When did he put in a top3 performance playing on the wing pre2002? I can't recall any games in which he has picked up 25+ touches. Macca might have the stats better than me, so I would love to have my hazy memory corrected.

4. His form has always had an up and down pattern. 2001 season was an excellent example. He was awesome in rounds 1-5 virtually leading the goalkicking ladder, but then had a run of 5-8 matches where he contributed 1-2 goals at best. Then played a couple of handy late games.

5. Maybe the Harvey example is a poor one. But how do you rate his ability to win 50-50 balls?

I think he is a receiver fullstop. He has a couple of very useful components of his game, but is not a well-rounded or versatile player. I don't just blame Choco for that.

Right now, would you play Dew on a wing? Yes or no.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by PJ Power
1. Remind me of how many marks Dewy takes in contests or above his head, whether playing as a forward or elsewhere.

Bugger all.

2. Why should a HFF be a receiver? Is it the position that makes the player a receiver or the player himself?

It depends on instructions. There's no doubt that his kick has made him a favoured recipient of the handball when he's on the run.

3. When did he put in a top3 performance playing on the wing pre2002? I can't recall any games in which he has picked up 25+ touches. Macca might have the stats better than me, so I would love to have my hazy memory corrected.

I just had a look, and there was one such game in both 2001 and 2002. I didn't say he was the king of getting the pill.

4. His form has always had an up and down pattern. 2001 season was an excellent example. He was awesome in rounds 1-5 virtually leading the goalkicking ladder, but then had a run of 5-8 matches where he contributed 1-2 goals at best. Then played a couple of handy late games.

Thats about the goal return I'd expect from a wingman....1-2 goals per game plus setting up play.

5. Maybe the Harvey example is a poor one. But how do you rate his ability to win 50-50 balls?

Not particularly highly.

I think he is a receiver fullstop. He has a couple of very useful components of his game, but is not a well-rounded or versatile player. I don't just blame Choco for that.

I agree that he's a receiver....he's also good at getting the loose ball. What part of this detracts from him playing as a wingman? Isn't a wingman supposed to be a relatively loose option to relieve pressure from the corridor when needed?

Right now, would you play Dew on a wing? Yes or no.

Yes.

EDIT: The other important attribute about Dew is that he makes an excellent tactical unit for a coach to position due to his dangerous kick. Not every player can offer this.

 

[captain ebert]

Originally posted by PJ Power

Right now, would you play Dew on a wing? Yes or no.

i'd play him centre.

 

[PJ Power]

Fair enough. Thanks.

To be honest, I even agree with you. There is no-one else to play wing, and his output as a forward and defender has not been great.

I hope he burns on the wing. God knows we need him to.

 

[Andre]

Originally posted by PJ Power
Right now, would you play Dew on a wing? Yes or no.

For me, YES! Dew is a good receiver. Now we all bag receivers from time to time, but every side needs a couple of good ones - we can't have every player diving on the contests trying to get the ball out. Dew on a wing for the receive could put us quickly DEEP into attack. None of this chip, chip, chip. He should be placed on a wing and given license, no make that direction, to kick it long into the forward lines unless there is an obvious better option. Whilst there is always bending the players to the team the coach wants, the coach also has to bend the team to make the best of the players available. Choco spends too much time on the former and (it appears all too often) ignores the realities of the latter.

 

[MrMeaner]

I'd probably play Dew in the nominal position of wing but running off the half-back line.

I think that he's shown that he is not a target. His marking efforts are often woeful. However, to have him running straight at the ball off the line and then delivering with that kick should do it.

It would be essentially the same role that Francis played.

 

[Ateen7tee]

Originally posted by PJ Power
1. Remind me of how many marks Dewy takes in contests or above his head, whether playing as a forward or elsewhere.

You don't happen to attend games at AAMI and sit in Bay 138 do you?

I ask this because every week I have the same person behind me saying the same thing to the guy he sits with". Goes something like this......

Oh...don't kick it to dewey......he never takes a contested mark.....[turns to friend] ....dewey never takes a contested mark......[turns back to the field]....come on dewey, take a contested mark.....[turns to friend] ....dewey never takes a contested mark....and so on...and so on....

This happens every game.......I'm beginning to think he should make a recording at home and simply press play at the appropriate time....oh well

 

[PJ Power]

Originally posted by Poet from Port
You don't happen to attend games at AAMI and sit in Bay 138 do you?

I ask this because every week I have the same person behind me saying the same thing to the guy he sits with". Goes something like this......

Oh...don't kick it to dewey......he never takes a contested mark.....[turns to friend] ....dewey never takes a contents mark......[turns back to the field]....come on dewey, take a contested mark.....[turns to friend] ....dewey never takes a contents mark....and so on...and so on....

This happens every game.......I'm beginning to think he should make a recording at home and simply press play at the appropriate time....oh well

No. But I changed my anchored seats some time ago, because I annoyed people around me by sounding like a broken-down record having a go about Breuer. I am not the perfect supporter that's for sure .

 

[nay]

Coach

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU SUPPORTERS BLAMING THE COACH AND HIS STAFF IS SO WRONG. THE PLAYERS KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME, THEY NEED TO FIND HEART, SOUL AND PASSION, SOME HAVE BIG HEADS THEY NEED TO GO BACK TO THE SANFL FOR A WEEK OR TWO.

HOW CAN THE COACH BE BLAMED WITH SO MANY PLAYERS OUT AND THE REST NOT PULLING THEIR WAIT.

 

[Ateen7tee]

Re: Coach

Originally posted by nay
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU SUPPORTERS BLAMING THE COACH AND HIS STAFF IS SO WRONG. THE PLAYERS KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME, THEY NEED TO FIND HEART, SOUL AND PASSION, SOME HAVE BIG HEADS THEY NEED TO GO BACK TO THE SANFL FOR A WEEK OR TWO.

HOW CAN THE COACH BE BLAMED WITH SO MANY PLAYERS OUT AND THE REST NOT PULLING THEIR WAIT.

shhh....my son's asleep!

 

[MrMeaner]

Nay, the coaches cannot escape scrutiny. Ultimately leadership comes fro them. They set structures. They attempt to motivate players before the game at during breaks. They decide the makeup of the team on the ground at any one time. They set team rules. They can make or break players' confidence.

You are correct in one regard, the coaches had a hell of a job this week due to or stocks plumbing never before seen depths.

This is not to take anything away from the culpability of the players. However, what was lacking yesterday was leadership at all levels.

 

[PortProudWA]

I cant get over the reaction.....one bad lose, and yer we were beaten badly........now the coach must go, dewy's must be traded, Ladey has to go......

Hell lets just sack the whole god dam lot of them.......Every Team has these kinds of looses!! Last year Brisbane lost by 10 goals to WCE at the GABBA


Christ sake get a grip , you really are all **ssin me to tears. Its done over with, if it happened every friggin year or week, we might have something to complain about.....but for fårk sake........I didnt hear any of you whinning about dewy, or ladey or schoey when we whipped Essendon's arse in Round 1!!!

Jezzzzz christ......

 

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by PortProudWA
I cant get over the reaction.....one bad lose, and yer we were beaten badly........now the coach must go, dewy's must be traded, Ladey has to go......

Hell lets just sack the whole god dam lot of them.......Every Team has these kinds of looses!! Last year Brisbane lost by 10 goals to WCE at the GABBA


Christ sake get a grip , you really are all **ssin me to tears. Its done over with, if it happened every friggin year or week, we might have something to complain about.....but for fårk sake........I didnt hear any of you whinning about dewy, or ladey or schoey when we whipped Essendon's arse in Round 1!!!

Jezzzzz christ......

Sorry, but I have to disagree there.
The laments about Dew, Lade in the forward line, JBurger in the forward line and his gold pass have been around for quite a while. Nothing to do with Sunday's loss
.
On days like Sunday it is more of a case of
"You may not want to do it while we are winning, but for frig sake at least try it once when we are getting flogged and if it will make any difference to the result it can only be in a positive way as it ain't going to get any more negative".
If that makes sense.

 

[PortProudWA]

Originally posted by PAfolwr
Sorry, but I have to disagree there.
The laments about Dew, Lade in the forward line, JBurger in the forward line and his gold pass have been around for quite a while. Nothing to do with Sunday's loss
.
On days like Sunday it is more of a case of
"You may not want to do it while we are winning, but for frig sake at least try it once when we are getting flogged and if it will make any difference to the result it can only be in a positive way as it ain't going to get any more negative".
If that makes sense.

NO