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Weight Training: For Beginners - Critique my program/Q & A

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Re: Weight Training Program

mcuzzy said:
I'm gonna back the people who have seen me and seen me workout in the gym when they say I'm not overtraining.

At first I wasn't eating or sleeping enough and once I did I started gaining.

I'll read all this over when I'm not as drunk
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There is your problem. Get off the piss and you will grow.

Eat every 2 hours max. If you go longer than 3 hrs without eating, your body starts eating itself and you break down. Alcohol also breaks you down. Whenever you drink, it sends you back a week in strength and development.

Start doing squats and deadlifts. The two most important exercises for building size. Make sure you do them properly, don't be one of the tough guys with huge weights with the squat but only go down 45 degrees. Go down until your thighs are parallel to the floor. Form is the most important thing with all exercises.

Also when doing pulldowns, make sure you are pulling with the back and not the biceps. I got the best gains in my back when I dropped the weight and made sure my arms were locked and everything was centred in the back. But same applies for chest etc.

Anyway, just make sure you eat something every two hours. Carry a timer if you have to.
 
Re: Weight Training Program

I don't drink that often mate and I wouldn't class myself as a beginner, I've been pushing weights at the gym for about 2 years.

I didin't want advice on my weights, just wanted to know if there was anything i could do with my diet (apart from alco) to help.

I'm growing quite quickly.
 
Re: Weight Training Program

mccuzy, that program is not the best mate...there's been plenty of good suggestions here (starting strength being one of them although it doesn't seem enough volume for mine although i haven't seen the entire program)

and of your 33 exercises i'd only have you do about 5 of them

no talk of muscular and joint balance here either...

your shoulder has a boatload actions but to make it simple it can externally rotate (come back behind you) or internally rotate (come down in front of you) and any training program should really have a 2 ext rot : 1 int rot ratio in it's sets, reps and load...unfortunately for your shoulders (and for mine for just reading it) your program has you doing 400 odd reps for internal rotation and a poultry 30 for external rotation as well as 252 reps for arms (wowzers!! 1 wouldn't do that many reps a week) and ZERO posteriour chain work

to sum up - it could be a lot better
 
Re: Weight Training Program

What's all this 'chain' talk?

The terms 'closed-chain' and 'open-chain'(?) have been thrown around on these threads. Can somebody explain them (taking into account I'm an experienced lifter who knows what does what, not an Exercise Science graduate)?
 

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Re: Weight Training Program

closed chain exercise are those where your body moves through range of motion, think chin ups, lunges, push ups, step ups, inverted rows, squats, deadlifts etc and use stabilising muscles thus should comprise 80% of your program at the very least which you're probably doing but don't even know it

open chain exercises are where you move the wt implement away from you for a lack of better term such as bench press, shoulder press, curls and anything on a machine that use minimal stabilising muscles

posteriour chain is anything on the back of the body but mainly back, glutes, hams and lower back and are the stabilising force of the body so the stronger you can make these, the stronger you'll be
 
Re: Weight Training Program

Hey everyone, first time poster on this board!

I'm in the throws of trying to bulk up for the 2010 season... just trying to get a bit of size, through the core especially, so I can shrug of tackles, etc. Im only 171 cms, 64ish kgs... small forward/wingman type.

Just wondering... is "Rippetoe's" program suitable for getting into shape for footy or is it more aimed at body builders? Although I do like it how he has 2 workouts divided over 3 days.

I currently do four days a week at the gym:
Mon: chest, shoulders, triceps
Tues: Back, biceps, legs, core
Fri: (repeat of mon)
Sat: (repeat of tues)

Is this too much? From the research Ive done it appears as if you only need to do each body part once each week. If I need too, should I maybe reduce it to 3 days a week with a better split of exercises on each day? And how many exercises should we be doing for each body part?

What exercises should I be doing? Looking at doing squats and I have started doing deadlifts recently. I also do russian twists for the core too.

Ive been on and off the gym for the past 2 yrs but have been really focused the past 3 months and have had some moderate gains but I'm just looking to tinker with it to get the best results.

Thanks in advance for any helpful tips!:thumbsu::)
 
Re: Weight Training Program

starskyCrow87 said:
Hey everyone, first time poster on this board!

I'm in the throws of trying to bulk up for the 2010 season... just trying to get a bit of size, through the core especially, so I can shrug of tackles, etc. Im only 171 cms, 64ish kgs... small forward/wingman type.

Just wondering... is "Rippetoe's" program suitable for getting into shape for footy or is it more aimed at body builders? Although I do like it how he has 2 workouts divided over 3 days.

I currently do four days a week at the gym:
Mon: chest, shoulders, triceps
Tues: Back, biceps, legs, core
Fri: (repeat of mon)
Sat: (repeat of tues)

Is this too much? From the research Ive done it appears as if you only need to do each body part once each week. If I need too, should I maybe reduce it to 3 days a week with a better split of exercises on each day? And how many exercises should we be doing for each body part?

What exercises should I be doing? Looking at doing squats and I have started doing deadlifts recently. I also do russian twists for the core too.

Ive been on and off the gym for the past 2 yrs but have been really focused the past 3 months and have had some moderate gains but I'm just looking to tinker with it to get the best results.

Thanks in advance for any helpful tips!:thumbsu::)
Click to expand...

My understanding is Rippetoe's is designed for young athletes, here are a couple of decent links:

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/

Knock yourself out.
 
Re: Weight Training Program

starskyCrow87 said:
I currently do four days a week at the gym:
Mon: chest, shoulders, triceps
Tues: Back, biceps, legs, core
Fri: (repeat of mon)
Sat: (repeat of tues)

Is this too much? From the research Ive done it appears as if you only need to do each body part once each week. If I need too, should I maybe reduce it to 3 days a week with a better split of exercises on each day? And how many exercises should we be doing for each body part?

What exercises should I be doing? Looking at doing squats and I have started doing deadlifts recently. I also do russian twists for the core too.
)
Click to expand...

Very similar split to what I did to add some strength for basketball, although I did 3.5 times per week...just going every second day and alternating. If I felt worn out, I'd sometimes drop to 3/week. I will say that I think core is better done on the chest days since you should already be smashing it on the back days with deadlifts/squats and the like.

I would also make sure I'm doing sprinting/agility work on the chest days to best integrate the lifting you're doing on leg days into footy.
 
Re: Weight Training Program

we need to get away from bodybuilding buddy and train like athlete's do if that's what you're trying to improve

that means training movements over muscles which you can do over 2 - 4 days a week but if your goal now is to get bigger then probably following a lower/upper or a full body program
 
Re: Weight Training Program

cptkirk said:
we need to get away from bodybuilding buddy and train like athlete's do if that's what you're trying to improve

that means training movements over muscles which you can do over 2 - 4 days a week but if your goal now is to get bigger then probably following a lower/upper or a full body program
Click to expand...


Hey mate.
Can you explain training movements over muscles in more detail? Maybe set out a basic program?
 
Re: Weight Training Program

i'm in the process of putting together a site catering to training for afl so they will also be there but quickly...

there are 6 basic movement patterns:

lower body quad dominant - squats, most lunges, step ups etc
lower body hip dominant - deadlifts, good mornings, pull throughs, hip thrusts, glute ham raises etc
* some double up as both

upper body horizontal push - bench presses, push ups
upper body vertical push - shoulder presses
upper body horizontal pull - rows
upper body vertical pull - pull/chin ups, pulldowns

1 also add a 7th pattern in to my stuff:

single leg exercises - lunges, step ups, single leg rdl's etc

an 8th might be core, arms etc

program design wise it depends on what you need as to what you put in your program...going on what most people lack you'll have 3 or 4 categories prioritised:

1 - lower hip, upper hor pull, single leg, core

so every program should address these the most

2 - upper vert pull, upper hor push, lower quad

these are your second option as they are known oiveractive area's of the body so they don't need as much voilume as the category 1 or musclular imbalances will show up

3 - arms, shoulder raises, calf work (i don't really think you need any of this) etc

so a sample lower/upper split x 4/week might look like this:

mon - lower

max effort hip
single leg
posterior chain
core pairing

wed - upper

max effort hor push
upper hor pull / vert push
secondary hor pull (like a face pull, scarecrow etc) / tricep
core pairing

fri - lower

quad speed work
posterior chain
single leg
core pairing

sat - upper

hor push speed work
db hor push / vert pull
hor pull / tricep
secondary pull / core

as you can see there are more category 1 exercises then C2 etc now all that needs to be done is to put the volume in so that you best fit what you need

everyone is imbalanced so eberyone needs an imbalnced program to even your body up

make sense?
 
Re: Weight Training Program

Very nice write-up, agree with the vast majority and use a very similar program myself.

Couple questions;
- What specific advantages do you see in single leg work? I've never done it, might try it next time I'm in.

- What are hip thrusts?

- What do your speed sets look like? I've found high sets, low reps at explosive speed really useful.
 
Re: Weight Training Program

mdc said:
Very nice write-up, agree with the vast majority and use a very similar program myself.

Couple questions;
- What specific advantages do you see in single leg work? I've never done it, might try it next time I'm in.

- What are hip thrusts?
- What do your speed sets look like? I've found high sets, low reps at explosive speed really useful.
Click to expand...

If you have a girlfriend i'm quite sure you are already using hip thrusts,even if you don't know it :)

It's one of those exercises you do in the gym and hope nobody is looking,kind of like when you first start doing deads and barbell rows and realize your ass has to stick out and you look like a goose
 

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Re: Weight Training Program

Schism said:
It's one of those exercises you do in the gym and hope nobody is looking,kind of like when you first start doing deads and barbell rows and realize your ass has to stick out and you look like a goose
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Couldn't be worse than pull-throughs in that regard. :)

Where's the resistance for the thrust coming from?
 
Re: Weight Training Program

mdc said:
Couldn't be worse than pull-throughs in that regard. :)

Where's the resistance for the thrust coming from?
Click to expand...

Gravity,unless you put a 20kg plate on your pelvis?

It's a flexibility and safety exercise AFAIK

It helps strengthen a certain muscle i can't remember the name of,it runs from the inside of your spine down into the front of your pelvis - i injured mine and it made my whole left back and side harden up,it was terrible.Hip thrusts are really the only way to stretch it,and my physio had to manipulate his hands in under my stomach etc to get to the muscle and it is probably as much pain as i've been in when he did that.
 
Re: Weight Training Program

Interesting thread. I suspect I am a bit older than most in this thread but am doing a different program to most which is bulk and power based.

I currently go 3 times a week with a personal trainer who is an ex body builder/power lifter. As such there are some basic excercises we do all the time (bench, side raises etc) but due to his level of experience he throws in new stuff all the time.

Not sure whether anyone is interested in this type of approach but if you are happy to share.
 
Re: Weight Training Program

mcd - life and thus sport is spent on 1 leg...you need stabilisation and single leg work is the bestway to get it in the lower body

hip thrusts somewhere in here - http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_...raining_performance/dispelling_the_glute_myth

do a heavy set of reverse lunges and take your heart rate...i'm no steve monagetti but my heart rate was at 168 the other day after these after a set of 8 each leg w/ 55kgs on the bar

speed sets are like yours - 8 x 3, 10 x 2 etc at 30 - 60%

morgoth - definately share mate, can never learn too much
 
Re: Weight Training Program

I don't have a pull up bar and a gym is out of the question for me for a while, so my question is, what muscle groups am I neglecting with a workout consisting of backpack weighted push ups and squats, planks, military presses and bent over rows?
 
Re: Weight Training Program

head to the park and do pistol squats, inverted rows on a bar,feet elevated push ups and prone/side holds...can take the bag with you for wts if you want...probably some monkey bars to do chins on too
 

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Re: Weight Training Program

Also cptkirk I'm new to reading weights programs and such, but could you or someone else explain what max effort, speed work and all the other terms used mean?

Also, how many sets and reps would you be looking at for these?
 
Re: Weight Training Program

max effort work is basically absolute strength work so you'll usually work up to 3 to 5 rep max, trying to beast your previous best...this is where you'd do deadlifts, squats and bench presses but you'll only do 1 exercise each per week for upper and lower body

once you can bench 1.5 x your bodyweight and squat/deadlift 1.5 - 2 x your bodyweight then you have enough strength but now you need to be able to express it during performance...strength by itself won't always get you there so now you'd try plyometrics and medicine ball throws for high sets and low reps per set such as 8 x 3, 10 x 2 etc doing each set in a non fatigued state as it's all about quality here

some subscribe to speed bench presses and squats but you spend half of that time decelerating the wt, you actually need to release the load which is where jumps and throws come in

site could be a bit off unfortunately but i'm trying
 
Re: Weight Training Program

cptkirk said:
max effort work is basically absolute strength work so you'll usually work up to 3 to 5 rep max, trying to beast your previous best...this is where you'd do deadlifts, squats and bench presses but you'll only do 1 exercise each per week for upper and lower body

once you can bench 1.5 x your bodyweight and squat/deadlift 1.5 - 2 x your bodyweight then you have enough strength but now you need to be able to express it during performance...strength by itself won't always get you there so now you'd try plyometrics and medicine ball throws for high sets and low reps per set such as 8 x 3, 10 x 2 etc doing each set in a non fatigued state as it's all about quality here

some subscribe to speed bench presses and squats but you spend half of that time decelerating the wt, you actually need to release the load which is where jumps and throws come in

site could be a bit off unfortunately but i'm trying
Click to expand...

Couple of things;
- I would get rid of the max effort squatting unless you're training specifically for powerlifting/bodybuilding. The injury risk is just too high c.f. the rewards imo. Bench/deadlift max effort, absolutely, plus I rotate in some close-grip bench and good mornings as max-effort exercises.

- Benching 1.5x your weight is unrealistic for a lot of people. I can deadlift 2.2x my weight for 5 reps, but I can hardly bench 1.2x my weight.

- I personally do subscribe to speed bench and squats, have found it helpful for explosiveness. As long as you keep the load at 50-60% of 1RPM, it's very useful. 8x2 for squats with reps on the minute, and 8x3 for bench on 45sec.
 
Re: Weight Training Program

i only do 3 or 5 rep maxes for my max effort which i think is easily doable 2/week

not that i'm the greatest benchewr but i also think 1.5 x bw is very doable too..it may take a year or 2 but you'd get there with smart training

if i was to do bench/squats for speed i'd start at a lower, say 40% or so and work up
 

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