Were West Coast really a 'state team' in the early 90s?

[Allan Shorty]

All any fan can ask for is a level playing field - the continual concessions offered to the start up clubs and the non Victorian clubs for the last 25 years have ensured the success of these clubs to in turn ensure a viable national competition.

WC win two flags 9 yrs in, so did Adelaide...the AFl is not a level playing field and hasn't been for a very long time. A lot of Vic footy fans are sick of it - then listening to gloating ********s (not you) saying if it wasn't for us (pick an interstate club) your club wouldn't exist - and then deny the obvious concessions leading to their success is sickening.

And yes the old VFL was arrogant and pillaged SA and WA for years. But that doesn't change the last 25 yrs.

One cannot just start up a club and win multiple premierships within 10 yrs without the massive concessions WC received.

I agree with some of this. It is sickening that some Eagles supporters are saying the VFL tried to restrict their initial success. That is a ludicrous twist of the historical facts laid out in this thread. I reckon there's a straight line between that foundation myth, 'the all you wise men from the east / our Eagles have come home' lyric, and the utterly boorish and over the top Subiaco crowds. Somehow despite all the evidence they believe themselves underdogs still.

But I can't deny the Eagles have become a great club in their short history and the game is much better for expansion. It's the early flags that this thread is debating and I reckon it's a good debate to have.

 

[Max zero]

I agree with some of this. It is sickening that some Eagles supporters are saying the VFL tried to restrict their initial success. That is a ludicrous twist of the historical facts laid out in this thread. I reckon there's a straight line between that foundation myth, 'the all you wise men from the east / our Eagles have come home' lyric, and the utterly boorish and over the top Subiaco crowds. Somehow despite all the evidence they believe themselves underdogs still.

But I can't deny the Eagles have become a great club in their short history and the game is much better for expansion. It's the early flags that this thread is debating and I reckon it's a good debate to have.

So when they changed the $4 million licencing fee from being paid over 10 years to 30 days that was to help WC out? When they delayed WC's introduction to sign up and resign star WA players (even lying to some players saying a WA team wasn't going to happen to get them to resign) that was about helping WC out right?

 

[BRWB]

So when they changed the $4 million licencing fee from being paid over 10 years to 30 days that was to help WC out? When they delayed WC's introduction to sign up and resign star WA players (even lying to some players saying a WA team wasn't going to happen to get them to resign) that was about helping WC out right?

You can also pick the best players in your state year on year from your inception until you win a flag, a whole six year later.

How you could you not win a flag? Any club could have won a flag with the year on year concessions shown below. It's plainly bizarre to say otherwise.

Other notable West Coast signings from the '86 WAFL crop were Dwayne Lamb, Chris Lewis, Chris Mainwaring and John Worsfold.

And just so it's absolutely clear and all the facts are on the table, the Eagles were given exclusive access to WAFL players at the 1987 draft which allowed them to pick up these players:

Kevin Caton - Swan Districts (1 game for the Eagles)
Joe Cormack - Swan Districts (1 game for the Eagles)
Brent Hutton - Swan Districts (13 games for the Eagles)
Karl Langdon - Subiaco (100 games for the Eagles)
Guy McKenna - Claremont (267 games for the Eagles)
David O'Connell - Claremont (27 games for the Eagles)
Troy Ugle - Swan Districts (43 games for the Eagles)
Chris Waterman - East Fremantle (177 games for the Eagles)

• Players in bold played over 100 games for the Eagles.

Then in 1988 they lost their exclusive access to WAFL players but they were allowed to expand their list size and were permitted 5 pre-draft WAFL selections which resulted in them picking up these players:

Stevan Jackson - South Fremantle (38 games for the Eagles)
Don Pyke - Claremont (132 games for the Eagles)
Peter Sumich - South Fremantle (150 games for the Eagles)
Craig Turley - West Perth (115 games for the Eagles)
Scott Watters - South Fremantle (46 games for the Eagles)

In 1989 they were permitted 2 pre-draft WAFL selections and 3 post-draft WAFL selections which resulted in them picking up these players:

Tony Begovich - Claremont (9 games for the Eagles)
Brad Gwilliam - West Perth (4 games for the Eagles)
Dean Kemp - Subiaco (243 games for the Eagles)
Peter Mann - Claremont (0 games for the Eagles)
Ryan Turnbull - Claremont (129 games for the Eagles)

In 1990 they were permitted 2 pre-draft WAFL selections which resulted in them picking up these players:

Glen Jakovich - South Fremantle (276 games for the Eagles)
Mitchell White - Subiaco (151 games for the Eagles)

In 1991 they were permitted 1 pre-draft WAFL selection which resulted in them picking up this players:

Jason Ball - Swan Districts (103 games for the Eagles)

In 1992 the Eagles were no longer given any pre-draft selections and drafted their first non-WAFL from Port Adelaide. Shane Bond holds that distinction and he played 34 games for the Eagles.

Father-son rules up until 1995 said sons of former WAFL players could be drafted to the Eagles which allowed West Coast to pick up these players:

1989: Ashley McIntosh - Claremont (242 games for the Eagles)
1995: Ben Cousins - East Fremantle (238 games for the Eagles)

So the Eagles were virtually allowed to sign the best WAFL players every year from 1986-1991 with the exception of Bairstow, Harding and Wilson in 1986 but they ended up getting Harding and Wilson anyway. The one guy they couldn't get from the post 1986 WAFL crop was Mark Bairstow. Small price to pay when you basically get a crack at everyone else for 6 years plus father-son concessions.

This is how they built their 'state' side in the early 90s.

 

[Max zero]

You can also pick the best players in your state year on year from your inception until you win a flag, a whole six year later.

How you could you not win a flag? Any club could have won a flag with the year on year concessions shown below. It's plainly bizarre to say otherwise.

The best WAFL players after the VFL had pillaged the WAFL for two years straight and resigned all WA stsr players.

I like how the quoted post lumps in pre draft and post draft selections. Protip: post draft means everyome had a chance.

I notice you didn't comment on the fact that the VAFL almost drove WC to bankruptcy before they even played a game. Some help.

 

[BRWB]

The best WAFL players after the VFL had pillaged the WAFL for two years straight and resigned all WA stsr players.

I like how the quoted post lumps in pre draft and post draft selections. Protip: post draft means everyome had a chance.

I notice you didn't comment on the fact that the VAFL almost drove WC to bankruptcy before they even played a game. Some help.

It is well documented that WC hid guys like Heady. I've heard interviews confirming it. But you carry on living your alternate reality dream where WC are a poor downtrodden team. Winning a flag 6 years in was a triumph against the odds. Then winning another 2 years later was a testament to WCs superiority as a club and a true story of an underdog beating the evil AFL.

Spare me

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Surely one thing being overlooked is that the Eagles had an inherent advantage because their WAFL players were playing under their noses whilst the Victorian clubs obviously couldn't see the talented youth?

If half the Vic clubs were technically broke or had no money or whatever they weren't sending over scouts to WA to pick the most talented youngsters (I'm not sure what comp the Teal Cup talented youngsters played week-to-week) whilst there were people within the WA institutions that would have obviously had connections at the WAFL clubs and knew which talented youngsters were coming through.

It's probably a fault of the VFL granting the concessions which assumed that West Coast would select the best mature aged players from the WAFL rather than the talented youngsters. Whether or not the Eagles picked the youngsters out of necessity after all the best mature agers were taken or it was a deliberate ploy given they knew the talent better is anybody's guess. But they did have an advantage in scouting and recruiting these youngsters merely from them being under their noses (and therefore could accurately predict their future ability more than Vic clubs) that the VFL possibly didn't account for or underestimate the impact of.

 

[Kwality]

I agree with some of this. It is sickening that some Eagles supporters are saying the VFL tried to restrict their initial success. That is a ludicrous twist of the historical facts laid out in this thread. I reckon there's a straight line between that foundation myth, 'the all you wise men from the east / our Eagles have come home' lyric, and the utterly boorish and over the top Subiaco crowds. Somehow despite all the evidence they believe themselves underdogs still.

But I can't deny the Eagles have become a great club in their short history and the game is much better for expansion. It's the early flags that this thread is debating and I reckon it's a good debate to have.

Reality is 53 on Vic clubs list & 35 on the Eagles Shorty !!

Spin, twist .... whinge when the VFL saw the inequity & increased the Eagles list numbers.

 

[Farang83150]

It is well documented that WC hid guys like Heady. I've heard interviews confirming it.

That is an out and out lie made up by you...Luke Darcy.

 

[Max zero]

It is well documented that WC hid guys like Heady. I've heard interviews confirming it. But you carry on living your alternate reality dream where WC are a poor downtrodden team. Winning a flag 6 years in was a triumph against the odds. Then winning another 2 years later was a testament to WCs superiority as a club and a true story of an underdog beating the evil AFL.

Spare me

Oh you heard it did you? Well that's conclusive evidence right there. Lets ignore that proven fact that the VAFL almost sent WC bankrupt before they even played a game. Lets ignore the fact that the VAFL delayed WC's arrival until the maximum amount of players could be signed up from the WAFL or resigned.

Don't take out the Bulldogs 61 years of failure out on us.

 

[Kwality]

It is well documented that WC hid guys like Heady. I've heard interviews confirming it. But you carry on living your alternate reality dream where WC are a poor downtrodden team. Winning a flag 6 years in was a triumph against the odds. Then winning another 2 years later was a testament to WCs superiority as a club and a true story of an underdog beating the evil AFL.

Spare me

You need help on Brett Heady OR are you not the full quid ??

Where was Heady hidden ?
Did he play in Subis 1986 WAFL premiership team? That's a NO, he was only 16 years of age at the time.
He played 40 odd games with Subi in the WAFL when drafted in 1989.
He topped Subis goal kicking in 1989. Hidden from very poor recruiters, if he was hidden? Recruiters not held to account for some reason, when any excuse will do?

Where did you hear the interview or cant you remember - if you cant remember why would make such a demonstrably WRONG call?

Be honest, acknowledge you just have absolutely no idea.

 

[Forward Press]

We must've done pretty well to hide Brett Heady what with his gigantic ears and 31 games in the WAFL leading the goalkicking for his club.

 

[Kram]

We must've done pretty well to hide Brett Heady what with his gigantic ears and 31 games in the WAFL leading the goalkicking for his club.

Didn't Essendon somehow manage to hide their wingnut Hird?

 

[Forward Press]

Didn't Essendon somehow manage to hide their wingnut Hird?

Queen Liz has hidden Princes Charles and Phillip pretty well too.

Maybe it's an unfair generalisation.

 

[JackOutback]

Queen Liz has hidden Princes Charles and Phillip pretty well too.

Maybe it's an unfair generalisation.

WA hid Gilly from NSW.

 

[Matchu]

The alignment of Claremont as one of 4 teams to the West Coast was retrospective. When Mcintosh was picked up as a father/son there was no thought of a half alignment of WAFL team to West Coast because there was no other WA team. His father John played 146 games for Claremont not 150. The rules were different then, because he was also eligible for St Kilda where he played in the VFL for about 50 odd games. They also listed Nathan McIntosh, Ashley's older brother with a father/son pick in 1991, but he wasn't any good - with all the draft concessions you had picks to burn. (see Tim Watson)

Similarly Cousins father played for Perth Demons, not one of the alignment clubs you've listed as part of the 4. But he was eligible to both West Coast and Geelong under father/son, and supposedly eligible to Fremantle as he played for East Fremantle in the WAFL - and Fremantle were supposed to have exclusive access to half of the WAFL teams for 2 years to formulate their initial squad. East Fremantle being one of those 4 teams.

West Coast list numbers were back to parity (approx. 50 players) with VFL clubs by the 1990 season. That's what those post-draft selections West Coast had at the end of the 1989 draft were all about.

Wilson and Dean both were traded/drafted back to West Coast. Dean was injury prone and never played. Similarly Sartori and Dennis also had injury plagued careers. If you had these players in 1987 you would have had to drop others who you selected from your list. Its dubious to suggest that everyone who was part of what Weagles supporters continually refer to as 'the raid on WA players' actually wanted to play for a start up franchise with a phony name and not a traditional VFL club with substance and culture.

This post provides some clarity. We now know West Coast's list size was reduced for three years (1987-1989) and they went up to the standard VFL list size in 1990.

Mystery still surrounds the father-son concessions they received between 1986-1995. Scotland seemed to claim the father of said son must have played at least 150 WAFL games for Claremont, East Perth, West Perth or Subiaco prior to 1987. We now know that can't be true because Ashley McIntosh's father only played 146 games for Claremont and he was West Coast's first ever father-son pick in 1989. We then have the Ben Cousins situation in 1995. Cousins played for East Fremantle in his draft year which really should have seen him become a Docker as Freo had exclusive access to all WAFL players in 1994-95. So up until at least 1990 West Coast's father-son eligible fathers weren't required to play 150 WAFL games and up until at least 1995 they didn't have to play for Claremont, East Perth, West Perth or Subiaco.

Surely someone out there knows the initial father-son concessions the Eagles received?

You can also pick the best players in your state year on year from your inception until you win a flag, a whole six year later.

How you could you not win a flag? Any club could have won a flag with the year on year concessions shown below. It's plainly bizarre to say otherwise.

When you talk about 'zones' leading into the 1986 draft it looked like this:

Brisbane - Entire QAFL
Carlton - Northern Melbourne suburbs and Bendigo
Collingwood - Heidelberg/Preston area and Western border
Essendon - Essendon/Keilor/Ringwood area and Wimmera
Fitzroy - Doncaster/Templestowe area and Hampden
Footscray - Braybrook/Metlon/Yarraville area and Latrobe Valley
Geelong - Cobram/Deniliquin/Finley area and Geelong area
Hawthorn - Frankston/Hawthorn/Kew/Rosebud area and West Gippsland
Melbourne - Cheltenham/Mordialloc area and Goulburn Valley
North Melbourne - Ferntree Gully/Jacana/Westmeadows area and Ovens & Murray
Richmond - Waverley area and Sunraysia
St Kilda - Karingal/Mt. Eliza/Seaford area and Ballarat
Sydney - Noble Park/Springvale/Williamstown and Riverina
West Coast - Entire WAFL (each WAFL club had their own zones throughout the entire state of WA)

So basically the state of Victoria was split between 12 teams, the state of WA given to West Coast and the state of QLD given to Brisbane. Then you basically had SA, NT and Tassie shared through the draft with a small amount of NT players also up for grabs.

It's no secret that Victoria, SA and WA were streets ahead of every other state in the country at the time and probably still are. This is how those three major states were split in 1986:

Victoria - Split among 12 clubs through zoning
South Australia - split among 13 clubs through the draft
Western Australia - Given to West Coast

Then in 1987 the Victorian clubs lost their country Victorian zones while West Coast maintained their exclusive access to WAFL players. So leading into the 1987 draft you basically had the city of Melbourne split between 11 clubs, the Geelong area given to the Cats, Queensland given to the Bears and Western Australia given to the Eagles. Then you have SA, NT, Tassie and country Victoria split between 13 clubs through the draft.

In 1988 West Coast technically lost their 'zone' when other VFL clubs were permitted to sign one WAFL players but the Eagles were given pre-draft access to five WAFL players before any other club. Melbourne-Geelong zones remained and were split among 12 teams. The Bears still had exclusive access to Queensland players and you had WA (one player per club and only after pre-draft selections), SA, NT, Tassie and country Victoria split between 13 clubs through the draft.

In 1989 West Coast were given two pre-draft picks to be used on WAFL players and three post-draft picks that we now know (thanks to stax on the mull) were intended to push West Coast's list up to the VFL standard size. The Melbourne-Geelong zones were still in place and were split among 12 teams. The Bears still had exclusive access to Queensland players and you had WA (one player per club and only after pre-draft selections), SA, NT, Tassie and country Victoria split between 13 clubs through the draft.

In 1990 West Coast were again given two pre-draft picks to be used on WAFL players. The South Australian 'zone' was given to the Crows. The Melbourne-Geelong zones were still in place and were split among 12 teams. The Bears still had exclusive access to Queensland players and were given NT as an extension of their zone. You had WA (one player per club and only after pre-draft selections), Tassie and country Victoria split between 13 clubs through the draft.

In 1991 West Coast were given one pre-draft selection to be used on a WAFL player. The South Australian 'zone' remained for the Crows. The Melbourne-Geelong zones were still in place and were split among 12 teams. The Bears still had exclusive access to Queensland and NT players. You had WA (only after the pre-draft selection), Tassie and country Victoria split between 13 clubs through the draft.

The Victorian under 18s competition was established in 1992 and zones were abolished (with the exception of Brisbane keeping their QLD/NT zone). West Coast were also permitted to sign players outside of the WAFL from 1992 onward.

 

[stax on the mull]

The best WAFL players after the VFL had pillaged the WAFL for two years straight and resigned all WA stsr players.

I like how the quoted post lumps in pre draft and post draft selections. Protip: post draft means everyome had a chance.

I notice you didn't comment on the fact that the VAFL almost drove WC to bankruptcy before they even played a game. Some help.

Post draft does not mean everyone had a chance. As has been mentioned before , the other clubs were limited to one player from the WAFL per club from the 1988 draft onward .

Nobody else was going to pick Kemp and Heady. Even West Coast wasted a pick on a South Australian wingman Stephen Schwerdt before picking these two players. They didn't have to pick them up earlier because they were not known and the other clubs as per the trend were going for players who had some experience playing in the state leagues.

Generally this meant picking players out of the premiership WAFL team. When it came to the national draft West Coast's recruiting strategy mirrored that of the other VFL clubs at the time. They did well with Peter Matera in '89, who had already played a season or so of WAFL, but had suffered injuries and was a bit of a risk, but he's a genuine example of a good pick at pick 4 that (only) 3 other clubs could have taken before West Coast. Later in that same draft Evans at pick 50, however by that point the VFL clubs, those that could actually afford to pay for an established WAFL player had exhausted their picks. To illustrate my point, West Coast picked up players like Todd Breman and Peter Higgins (both Top 10 picks in 1988). Clape, Porter, West (picks 9,12 and 20 in 1990).

Kemp was known about because West Coast had access to the knowledge of the country WA recruiting zones, in this case Kalgoorlie and Subiaco FC (no surprise Nesbitt was the former Subiaco manager before going to West Coast). There is some truth that WA became a de facto zone for junior talent to the West Coast simply because there was no science to recruitment.

West Coast had a clear advantage there because there was were no nationwide recruiting networks, no draft camps tests or ratings of Top 20 players etc., so any junior talent in WA was virtually unknown with the odd exception like Jackovich who was playing WAFL league at age 15 in 1988, whereas the other VFL clubs were limited to their junior talent through their suburban zones. Essendon obviously caught up quick with a premiership in 1993 blooding their Baby Bombers.


Halfway through this article (from the West Coast Website) there's talk about how West Coast were so confident that nobody would pick up Kemp and Heady that they could leave them to their late picks in the draft.

http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/news/2011-09-17/kemps-sea-change

In 1989, Nisbett convinced Kemp to join brother Garry and his great mate Heady, who also hailed from Kalgoorlie, at Subiaco.

The details of that 1989 WAFL season reveal how West Coast pulled off one of the great recruiting steals, securing Kemp with selection 117 in that year's draft.

"I moved over to West Coast at the end of the year and, about six weeks later, Mick Malthouse was appointed," Nisbett explains. "(Recruiter) Mick Moylan was here and, between the three of us, we had to work out who we were going to draft.

"In 1989, Subiaco finished seventh on the ladder and we weren't on television because we weren't a successful side. At the end of that year, each VFL club was only allowed to pick one West Australian in the draft.

"Most of them thought, 'Well there's not a lot of talent in Perth, so we'll be able to see those guys mostly on television'. Subiaco had only been on television twice, so I figured nobody is going to look at Dean.

"Mick Moylan had seen the boys play and he didn't take a lot of convincing that both Dean and Brett (who was selected with pick No. 92) should be high on our preferences."

There are also stories that suggest Kemp, in the days before mobile phones, was encouraged to take a trip north and see what the fishing in Derby had to offer.

 

[Max zero]

Post draft does not mean everyone had a chance. As has been mentioned before , the other clubs were limited to one player from the WAFL per club from the 1988 draft onward .

Nobody else was going to pick Kemp and Heady. Even West Coast wasted a pick on a South Australian wingman Stephen Schwerdt before picking these two players. They didn't have to pick them up earlier because they were not known and the other clubs as per the trend were going for players who had some experience playing in the state leagues.

Generally this meant picking players out of the premiership WAFL team. When it came to the national draft West Coast's recruiting strategy mirrored that of the other VFL clubs at the time. They did well with Peter Matera in '89, who had already played a season or so of WAFL, but had suffered injuries and was a bit of a risk, but he's a genuine example of a good pick at pick 4 that (only) 3 other clubs could have taken before West Coast. Later in that same draft Evans at pick 50, however by that point the VFL clubs, those that could actually afford to pay for an established WAFL player had exhausted their picks. To illustrate my point, West Coast picked up players like Todd Breman and Peter Higgins (both Top 10 picks in 1988). Clape, Porter, West (picks 9,12 and 20 in 1990).

Kemp was known about because West Coast had access to the knowledge of the country WA recruiting zones, in this case Kalgoorlie and Subiaco FC (no surprise Nesbitt was the former Subiaco manager before going to West Coast). There is some truth that WA became a de facto zone for junior talent to the West Coast simply because there was no science to recruitment.

West Coast had a clear advantage there because there was were no nationwide recruiting networks, no draft camps tests or ratings of Top 20 players etc., so any junior talent in WA was virtually unknown with the odd exception like Jackovich who was playing WAFL league at age 15 in 1988, whereas the other VFL clubs were limited to their junior talent through their suburban zones. Essendon obviously caught up quick with a premiership in 1993 blooding their Baby Bombers.


Halfway through this article (from the West Coast Website) there's talk about how West Coast were so confident that nobody would pick up Kemp and Heady that they could leave them to their late picks in the draft.

http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/news/2011-09-17/kemps-sea-change

In 1989, Nisbett convinced Kemp to join brother Garry and his great mate Heady, who also hailed from Kalgoorlie, at Subiaco.

The details of that 1989 WAFL season reveal how West Coast pulled off one of the great recruiting steals, securing Kemp with selection 117 in that year's draft.

"I moved over to West Coast at the end of the year and, about six weeks later, Mick Malthouse was appointed," Nisbett explains. "(Recruiter) Mick Moylan was here and, between the three of us, we had to work out who we were going to draft.

"In 1989, Subiaco finished seventh on the ladder and we weren't on television because we weren't a successful side. At the end of that year, each VFL club was only allowed to pick one West Australian in the draft.

"Most of them thought, 'Well there's not a lot of talent in Perth, so we'll be able to see those guys mostly on television'. Subiaco had only been on television twice, so I figured nobody is going to look at Dean.

"Mick Moylan had seen the boys play and he didn't take a lot of convincing that both Dean and Brett (who was selected with pick No. 92) should be high on our preferences."

There are also stories that suggest Kemp, in the days before mobile phones, was encouraged to take a trip north and see what the fishing in Derby had to offer.

And?

As your article itself said:

"Most of them thought, 'Well there's not a lot of talent in Perth, so we'll be able to see those guys mostly on television'.

From the VFL perspective it wasn't generous at all. They were happy to let WC have plenty of picks because they didn't think there was much to pick from.

This has been the point all along: the picks only seem generous in hindsight. At the time the VFL thought they had screwed WC proper.

VFL: "Look how generous we are you can all these picks from the WAFL! I am sure you will find plenty of talent!"

VFL few years later: "Oh shit."

 

[Kwality]

Matchu, Bryan Cousins played 238 WAFL games, 16 & still at school when he debuted for Perth.

Question what year did the Vic clubs lose their zones?

 

[Kwality]

Surely one thing being overlooked is that the Eagles had an inherent advantage because their WAFL players were playing under their noses whilst the Victorian clubs obviously couldn't see the talented youth?

If half the Vic clubs were technically broke or had no money or whatever they weren't sending over scouts to WA to pick the most talented youngsters (I'm not sure what comp the Teal Cup talented youngsters played week-to-week) whilst there were people within the WA institutions that would have obviously had connections at the WAFL clubs and knew which talented youngsters were coming through.

It's probably a fault of the VFL granting the concessions which assumed that West Coast would select the best mature aged players from the WAFL rather than the talented youngsters. Whether or not the Eagles picked the youngsters out of necessity after all the best mature agers were taken or it was a deliberate ploy given they knew the talent better is anybody's guess. But they did have an advantage in scouting and recruiting these youngsters merely from them being under their noses (and therefore could accurately predict their future ability more than Vic clubs) that the VFL possibly didn't account for or underestimate the impact of.

The Dogs got John Georgiades from Subi in 1988 SO its a leap of credibility to believe they hadn't seen both Kemp & Heady play.
Also Dennis Blair who spent a couple of years at the Dogs in the 70s was a major force off field by the end of the 80s.

 

[Matchu]

Matchu, Bryan Cousins played 238 WAFL games, 16 & still at school when he debuted for Perth.

Man, you Eagles supporters are very selective in what you respond to.

You're right. Bryan Cousins played 238 WAFL games for Perth. However, Fremantle were supposed to have exclusive access to all WAFL players in 1994 and 1995. Ben Cousins was playing for the WAFL's East Fremantle in 1995 and I find it very hard to believe Fremantle weren't interested in recruiting him. He should have been a Docker.

 

[Forward Press]

Man, you Eagles supporters are very selective in what you respond to.

You're right. Bryan Cousins played 238 WAFL games for Perth. However, Fremantle were supposed to have exclusive access to all WAFL players in 1994 and 1995. Ben Cousins was playing for the WAFL's East Fremantle in 1995 and I find it very hard to believe Fremantle weren't interested in recruiting him. He should have been a Docker.

Ben Cousins could've opted for either Geelong, West Coast or Fremantle under the AFL father/son rules at the time. It was his choice, not the AFL's or Fremantle's.

There is no rule stating that Freo had first option.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father–son_rule

If a player is eligible to be selected by more than one team the individual player may choose which one of these teams is able to pick him under this rule.

 

[Kwality]

Man, you Eagles supporters are very selective in what you respond to.

You're right. Bryan Cousins played 238 WAFL games for Perth. However, Fremantle were supposed to have exclusive access to all WAFL players in 1994 and 1995. Ben Cousins was playing for the WAFL's East Fremantle in 1995 and I find it very hard to believe Fremantle weren't interested in recruiting him. He should have been a Docker.

Trying to earn a crust Matchu

Knew Bryan when he started work, no research required.

 

[Forward Press]

The Dogs got John Georgiades from Subi in 1988 SO its a leap of credibility to believe they hadn't seen both Kemp & Heady play.
Also Dennis Blair who spent a couple of years at the Dogs in the 70s was a major force off field by the end of the 80s.

The more logical assumption is that VFL scouts were following the WAFL and Subiaco, but didn't think much of Heady and Kemp as they weren't on TV much (according to stax on the mull) and they would've both been 18-19 year old skinny rakes (Heady) or diminutive midfielders (Kemp) at the time, when the drafting tendency at the time was for more mature players.

 

[Matchu]

Question what year did the Vic clubs lose their zones?

The last time they could recruit players from their country zones was in 1987. The last time they could recruit players from their metro zones was in 1991.

Ben Cousins could've opted for either Geelong, West Coast or Fremantle under the AFL father/son rules at the time. It was his choice, not the AFL's or Fremantle's.

There is no rule stating that Freo had first option.

So you're telling me Fremantle didn't have exclusive access to WAFL players but West Coast did?

 

[Kwality]

The more logical assumption is that VFL scouts were following the WAFL and Subiaco, but didn't think much of Heady and Kemp as they weren't on TV much (according to stax on the mull) and they would've both been 18-19 year old skinny rakes (Heady) or diminutive midfielders (Kemp) at the time, when the drafting tendency at the time was for more mature players.

&/or perhaps they were confused by the elder Kemp who played in Subis 1988 premiership (I think).

Hidden: believe it if you need.