What are Carlton playing at?

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Taylor

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Jul 16, 2009
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It's not in Carlton's interest for us to get a player they rate as top ten much later, later enough that it gives us access to another player before pick 40 is even worse but it's out of their control by then.

Carlton is a train on the same track as Fremantle, we will be competing for the same spot in the finals over the next five years and one player can make the difference there if we land a gem.
 

4THAWN

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I don’t think it was a gamble on Kemp falling at all. I think Carlton stuffed this badly. I think they had a blanket over 3-4 guys and Kemp was who was left.

To then move up to grab what’s his name?

I think they pulled the trigger on that hoping for De Koning and he went straight after. Let’s be honest they didn’t shift back up due to the fear of Philp going.

Carlton stuffed it big time in my opinion.
this is exactly what happened
 

Mr_Plow

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Henry and Green are both genuine top 10 talents, perhaps even top 5 for the latter. If every other list manager is too weak to bid, someone has to pick up the slack. We genuinely rated Henry and would have been happy to take him with our first pick.

After Blakey and then last night, it seems that most list managers lack gall.
 

Gethelred

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I don’t think it was a gamble on Kemp falling at all. I think Carlton stuffed this badly. I think they had a blanket over 3-4 guys and Kemp was who was left.

To then move up to grab what’s his name?

I think they pulled the trigger on that hoping for De Koning
and he went straight after. Let’s be honest they didn’t shift back up due to the fear of Philp going.

Carlton stuffed it big time in my opinion.
With all due respect, why would we want another key backman?

Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman, Macreadie, Ben Silvagni, Liam Jones, Casboult are all at varying stages of their careers and all can play KPD. You can choose to rate them (or not) but why would we obtain another KPD when we already have 7 in a list of 45?
 

Mr_Plow

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They know what goes around will come around. That includes when you let other clubs academy players roll through without a bid, but they remember when you do.
Well, Carlton has a non-existent academy, so we are in no danger any time soon.

And is that a SV fan I spot? This guy fu**s.
 

Taylor

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With all due respect, why would we want another key backman?

Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman, Macreadie, Ben Silvagni, Liam Jones, Casboult are all at varying stages of their careers and all can play KPD. You can choose to rate them (or not) but why would we obtain another KPD when we already have 7 in a list of 45?
In three years when you expect a key tall to be coming into the AFL system I wouldn't be expecting Liam Jones or Levi Casboult to be AFL players.
 

Gethelred

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In three years when you expect a key tall to be coming into the AFL system I wouldn't be expecting Liam Jones or Levi Casboult to be AFL players.
Okay, so 5 of a list of 45. The point still stands; how many KPDs does a team need, that 7 is not enough but 8 is just the right amount, and/or the drafts are such over the next three years that we cannot select any KPDs whatsoever between now and when both players retire?
 

Taylor

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Okay, so 5 of a list of 45. The point still stands; how many KPDs does a team need, that 7 is not enough but 8 is just the right amount, and/or the drafts are such over the next three years that we cannot select any KPDs whatsoever between now and when both players retire?
You won't be playing a teenager as your key defender when you're hoping to play finals. You'll want someone who has a few years run up.
You also won't want to be playing half backs in the key back role.
 

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Gethelred

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You won't be playing a teenager as your key defender when you're hoping to play finals. You'll want someone who has a few years run up.
You also won't want to be playing half backs in the key back role.
Marchbank, Weitering, Plowman, Macreadie. Silvagni is the only teenager in there at the moment.

I suppose you're referring to the hypothetical KPD we should've taken yesterday (because there aren't any KPDs left in the draft :rolleyes:) but you have again to answer the question. I'll ask it again: how many KPDs can or should a list of 45 carry before said list is unbalanced? Why is 7 not enough but 8 perfect to the point that trading down to pick up 2 midfielders of wildly different skillsets instead of picking a KPD is 'stuffing it up big time'?
 
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Taylor

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Marchbank, Weitering, Plowman, Macreadie. Silvagni is the only teenager in there at the moment.

I suppose you're referring to the hypothetical KPD we should've taken yesterday (because there aren't any KPDs left in the draft :rolleyes:) but you have again to answer the question. I'll ask it again: how many KPDs can or should a list of 45 carry before said list is unbalanced? Why is 7 not enough but 8 perfect to the point that trading down to pick up 2 midfielders of wildly different skillsets instead of picking a KPD 'stuffing it up big time'?
My comment about teenager was in direct response to this from you
and/or the drafts are such over the next three years that we cannot select any KPDs whatsoever between now and when both players retire?
That is the teenager I referred to.
 

Alfonz

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They know what goes around will come around. That includes when you let other clubs academy players roll through without a bid, but they remember when you do.
Not necessarily. GWS were the Carlton of last year, bidding on Blakey and Quaynor. Sydney didn't repay the favour.
 

Cobbler

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With all due respect, why would we want another key backman?

Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman, Macreadie, Ben Silvagni, Liam Jones, Casboult are all at varying stages of their careers and all can play KPD. You can choose to rate them (or not) but why would we obtain another KPD when we already have 7 in a list of 45?
Well good move pouncing on Philp then.

Bravo move.
 

holy diver

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Genuine question. Those bids and subsequent pick swaps seemed like their Recruitment team were throwing the toys out of the cot. But why? I don’t recall any specific trade dealings with them recently that would have rubbed them up the wrong way.

Interested to hear from any Carlton lurkers as well, as to why they’d want to make enemies out of us and GWS??
O'Reilly trade. :D
 

sherrif

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Marchbank, Weitering, Plowman, Macreadie. Silvagni is the only teenager in there at the moment.

I suppose you're referring to the hypothetical KPD we should've taken yesterday (because there aren't any KPDs left in the draft :rolleyes:) but you have again to answer the question. I'll ask it again: how many KPDs can or should a list of 45 carry before said list is unbalanced? Why is 7 not enough but 8 perfect to the point that trading down to pick up 2 midfielders of wildly different skillsets instead of picking a KPD is 'stuffing it up big time'?
The truth is we'll all never know if the bids were legit or gamesmenship. The fact that Flanders and Green were both still on the board does make it look like you went out of your way to disadvantage another team. I mean if you were always going to trade for the two later picks then why not just do that. No one had Henry rated ahead of Green and Flanders, and thats what seems suss. Next years draft is likely to be an embarrassment if teams start playing games to draw out bids from other teams, rather than make bids because they rate that player the best available at that pick.
 
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sherrif

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Not necessarily. GWS were the Carlton of last year, bidding on Blakey and Quaynor. Sydney didn't repay the favour.
Not really. Both of those bids were at or after where the player was expected to go. They were genuine bids for players as the system is designed for. If the Henry bid was legit then geez teams rated Flanders and Green lower than rumoured.
 

mightymouse75

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It looks shit but would you be foolish enough to waste your 1st round pick on a player you did not really want ??
 

dont bowl there

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As annoying as it was I don't have any issues with what Carlton did, we do owe a big favour Adelaide for not trading pick 6. Could have been a disaster if we were forced to chose between a bid on Henry or miss on Young. I see Young as a critical part of Fremantles future.
 

Bender571

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This article talks about what allegedly happened.


"The Blues were keen to get down to pick six and probably grab Hayden Young.
The Blues thought the handshake agreement was for pick nine and their future second round pick for pick six.
Adelaide thought differently. When the moment came to do a deal Crows list manager Justin Reid rang Stephen Silvagni and said the deal was for pick nine and Carlton’s future first, not their future second. Silvagni was, well, displeased.
Adelaide says they never had a firm deal on the terms of a trade, just an agreement that if they were to do deal with anyone over pick six it would be with Carlton. The Blues saw it differently.
The Crows figured they were too exposed with only a future second round pick as inducement because there was still a chance McAsey would not be there at nine. While they were sure the Dockers wouldn’t take him they were suspicious, then increasingly worried that Geelong - who were very keen on McAsey – would trade with Fremantle to get into pick eight and take him before them.

So the deal was off. Carlton quickly moved on to Plan B. But for Plan B they needed to buy themselves more time so they bid on Liam Henry and then on Tom Green. They were sure both bids would be matched – certainly the Green bid would be because GWS had previously figured a bid for Green could come very early in the draft – but they also expected the Dockers to match Henry."
 

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