What do we need to do to return back to premiership contention?

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geelong_crazy26

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Might be jumping the gun a bit here and would love nothing more than to be wrong, but i am happy as a fan to put a cross through a flag in 2023. Finals maybe at best.

So the discussion i put forward to you is... What does the club need to do in the future to return the Geelong football club back to premiership contention???

Myself personally, i see this as a very exciting period of a mini transition where we heavily invest in some good quality youth for a couple of seasons... Potentially 2x top ten draft picks in a row with clark and whoever comes along this season.

A huge pre season into bruhn henry brothers and holmes SDK, knevitt Neale and Conway will see a natural increment.... How big a rise depends on how much they put in on the track

Will danger Duncan blicavs Hawkins guthrie continue to hold form and roles??

I can see us if all goes right bouncing back to top four next season, or I can see us spending 2-4 years in the bottom 8 building back up again.

Either way, I am very excited about what the next chapter brings!
 
For starters, I'm a very pro Chris Scott fan, so please don't take it as an instant kick the man out type. BUT.. is Chris Scott our next premiership coach if we determine that our window is closed/closing?

I don't think we need to overreact in terms of selling the farm though there would be a distinct difference in merely communicating that the objective for the 24-25 seasons is not "we're going for a flag". Until the club officially decides that a flag is out of reach, which they may not simply from a marketing and revenue perspective, then it's hard to expect drastic change.
 
geelong_crazy26 said:
Might be jumping the gun a bit here and would love nothing more than to be wrong, but i am happy as a fan to put a cross through a flag in 2023. Finals maybe at best.

So the discussion i put forward to you is... What does the club need to do in the future to return the Geelong football club back to premiership contention???

Myself personally, i see this as a very exciting period of a mini transition where we heavily invest in some good quality youth for a couple of seasons... Potentially 2x top ten draft picks in a row with clark and whoever comes along this season.

A huge pre season into bruhn henry brothers and holmes SDK, knevitt Neale and Conway will see a natural increment.... How big a rise depends on how much they put in on the track

Will danger Duncan blicavs Hawkins guthrie continue to hold form and roles??

I can see us if all goes right bouncing back to top four next season, or I can see us spending 2-4 years in the bottom 8 building back up again.

Either way, I am very excited about what the next chapter brings!
Click to expand...
It's a bit of a tough window to navigate but I think there's a heap of potential to be back to top 4 reasonably quickly. The thing I think we've done well is to put together a group of high potential young guns in a short period of time.

We completely turned over the backline in a 3 year period to go from the Boris, Harry, Domsy, Mackie group to basically what we have now. It involved luck in finding Stewart, some trial and error, and a temporary change in game style to protect the new group but it worked.

Then we turned over the forward line completely and that took a lot of trial and error to get to where we are and tooks years but was the direct link to a premiership.

Now we've set the ground work for a midfield transition which should take 3 years.

The end point probably has 2-3 players not currently on the list, but I think there are some milestone barriers we need to club.

1. Loss of Hawkins
You don't replace Hawkins, but I think you can do something different. If you need ruck work as well Neale isn't the worst investment to make. If he isn't going to make it you could throw J Henry there and pick up Doedee as a free agent to replace Henry down back. It's a different look and we lose a lot but it's more mobile and less predictable. I also like putting Dempsey they're for a run of games but I think he has to train with the mids because he needs to play midfield/wing as a second position. We get worse here but we can cover it.

2. Loss of Stanley
I think a fair few will be surprised at how much they miss him when he is gone. 3 years from now is Conway but year 1-2? Unless it's Grundy on the cheap then it needs to be a journeyman. Not a position we want to overcapitalise in.

3. Loss of Dangerfield
As harsh as it is to say we've basically lost him already, he can provide some bursts of the old Dangerfield but he's going to be used the way port use Boak. This is a loss but we've already incurred it. The problem won't get worse.

Of the above the biggest issue for me is 3. I look at the midfield 3 years from now and Knevitt, Clark, Holmes with 30+ more games are the basis of a good support act. Possible that Dempsey transitions to the middle effectively too and that we find a mid from Clohesy/Rico/Willis or anyone else we draft in the next two periods. A footy ready Conway could be huge.

There are more losses along the way. The forward line without Rohan will be hard to navigate and we need to replace Stewart in year 4. But I think for the above to work what we need is:

1. one traded in elite mid on the next 2 years
2. A journeyman ruck for next year
3. A key forward to trade or draft for to replace Cameron

I think the rest of the support cast we can look at minor trades and free agents to keep us going. The main thing is to keep the young mids group together, keep the close/miers/Stengle group together, and keep those defenders together.
 

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Review of the football department and coaches. In particularly the level of fitness at the start of the season.

I don't think Geelong are that far off. Have lost a lot of close games.

The list is reviewed every year and it's hard to argue what Mackie did last year was anything but outstanding
 
Two Coins said:
For starters, I'm a very pro Chris Scott fan, so please don't take it as an instant kick the man out type. BUT.. is Chris Scott our next premiership coach if we determine that our window is closed/closing?

I don't think we need to overreact in terms of selling the farm though there would be a distinct difference in merely communicating that the objective for the 24-25 seasons is not "we're going for a flag". Until the club officially decides that a flag is out of reach, which they may not simply from a marketing and revenue perspective, then it's hard to expect drastic change.
Click to expand...
Whether you think Scott is the next premiership coach or not I would not get rid of him at this point. He has the current group of players in his corner and has shown himself to be a pretty smart tactical and strategic coach.

We should definitely be grooming the next senior coach, but I wouldn't want to turn over the midfield and the leadership at the same time. You're trying to solve too many problems at once
 
CatToTheFuture said:
Whether you think Scott is the next premiership coach or not I would not get rid of him at this point. He has the current group of players in his corner and has shown himself to be a pretty smart tactical and strategic coach.

We should definitely be grooming the next senior coach, but I wouldn't want to turn over the midfield and the leadership at the same time. You're trying to solve too many problems at once
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Fair call, I can agree with that. So long as Chris too feels he's the man to keep it all going
 
Warhorse said:
Review of the football department and coaches. In particularly the level of fitness at the start of the season.

I don't think Geelong are that far off. Have lost a lot of close games.

The list is reviewed every year and it's hard to argue what Mackie did last year was anything but outstanding
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100% a review of injury management. What happened with Guthrie was unacceptable
 
Warhorse said:
Review of the football department and coaches. In particularly the level of fitness at the start of the season.

I don't think Geelong are that far off. Have lost a lot of close games.

The list is reviewed every year and it's hard to argue what Mackie did last year was anything but outstanding
Click to expand...
I would be very very careful and against a review of coaches and the department after we recently won a premiership. I think that will have a culturally destabilizing outcome that you don’t want to incur.

I do agree we need to look into our fitness and ask what happened there, but I would not go into any departmental or coaching reviews.. cultural suicide after such a long period of success and a recent flag.
 
Two Coins said:
For starters, I'm a very pro Chris Scott fan, so please don't take it as an instant kick the man out type. BUT.. is Chris Scott our next premiership coach if we determine that our window is closed/closing?

I don't think we need to overreact in terms of selling the farm though there would be a distinct difference in merely communicating that the objective for the 24-25 seasons is not "we're going for a flag". Until the club officially decides that a flag is out of reach, which they may not simply from a marketing and revenue perspective, then it's hard to expect drastic change.
Click to expand...
I think the question is honestly more if Scott wants to have a go at a rebuild or not… not the other way around if we want him.

He has been around along time and it is a very taxing job… is he interested in going through that journey??

If I was him, I would also want a full commitment from geelong that they are all in for him to do it properly as well. The last thing you want is a Clarkson tantrum midway through and a sacking
 
geelong_crazy26 said:
I would be very very careful and against a review of coaches and the department after we recently won a premiership. I think that will have a culturally destabilizing outcome that you don’t want to incur.

I do agree we need to look into our fitness and ask what happened there, but I would not go into any departmental or coaching reviews.. cultural suicide after such a long period of success and a recent flag.
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Point taken. I agree a wide ranging indepth independant review is not warrented or needed. I think benchmarking against Collingwood for example and tweak our assistant coaches or roles and responsibilities of some of the other departments.

I do think the coaches got it wrong - in particular the pre season. And the fitness staff should be held accountable unless they were overriden by others.

I don't have an issue with the list as Mackie has already started the regeneration and is clearly building for the future
 
Warhorse said:
Point taken. I agree a wide ranging indepth independant review is not warrented or needed. I think benchmarking against Collingwood for example and tweak our assistant coaches or roles and responsibilities of some of the other departments.

I do think the coaches got it wrong - in particular the pre season. And the fitness staff should be held accountable unless they were overriden by others.

I don't have an issue with the list as Mackie has already started the regeneration and is clearly building for the future
Click to expand...
I do like the idea of a very senior coach like Scott being balanced out with young talented assistant coaches surrounding him to keep things vibrant and innovative.. I think it’s an ideal match.

Did they get it wrong at the time?? It is hard in hindsight to know what you need to change after a premiership win. It’s a lot easier when you lose to know what to change up. In hindsight there probably is elements we could have done better.

Which coaches do you think need to go?? Again harsh after a recent flag to sack
 
I think that Geel cliff which opposition supporters wrongly 1st talked about 6-7 years ago - well because of the current age group - then its obvious the big drop off is not that far away at all - simply because so many quality players will be gone

Next year wont be a disaster - early prognosis anywhere between 6th and 14th - but forget about premierships because the window is super glued shut

And at the end of 24 - i think thats when alot of Geel players will call it quits - or a few wont be offered new contracts - and thats when Geel will tumble

How long before they become competitive and maybe challenge again - then it all comes down to recruiting - because i dont think the Geel youth on the books at present looks that flash at all

With the recruiting - if they stuuff around like Ess- Carl - and Melb did for a long time - then the wilderness beckons

However if you look at the Crows - 2017 favourites in that GF when they got beat - they then cleared the decks and dropped right down ( they had never been their before in their history ) i dont know if they won a wooden spoon in that patch - but just 6 years later in 2023 - i think it is exciting times for Ade - i really like their list/side

So you can turn things around in a reasonable short period of time - but it all comes down to excellent recruiting
 

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I haven't completely written off this year. This season has been a strange one and wouldn't surprise if some side given no chance, comes from the clouds to have a big impact.
Even without Blitz and Hawkins there is talent in our side, plus some players in the VFL that have shown some signs.
I'd even be tempted to throw Hardie in, mature body, to see what he can do.
 
A ruck and a new midfield. Must recruit a possession winner like Parish (maybe) and in dire need of a tap ruckman to give our mids first sniff. Unfortunately it looks like Conway’s body is looking a lot like Cockatoo’s and won’t hold up in the AFL. Also need someway of changing the mindset of a few players too, need that winning mindset back.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
geelong_crazy26 said:
I do like the idea of a very senior coach like Scott being balanced out with young talented assistant coaches surrounding him to keep things vibrant and innovative.. I think it’s an ideal match.

Did they get it wrong at the time?? It is hard in hindsight to know what you need to change after a premiership win. It’s a lot easier when you lose to know what to change up. In hindsight there probably is elements we could have done better.

Which coaches do you think need to go?? Again harsh after a recent flag to sack
Click to expand...
I had no issues with keeping our current coaches. I was furious hearing about the pre season though.

Was Harry Taylor and Eddie Betts bigger loses than first thought? Taylor in particular after the drop off in conditioning.
 
Warhorse said:
I had no issues with keeping our current coaches. I was furious hearing about the pre season though.

Was Harry Taylor and Eddie Betts bigger loses than first thought? Taylor in particular after the drop off in conditioning.
Click to expand...
Sounds like I am missing a bit of info here. What happened over the pre season??
 
BotsMaster said:
Beat the following teams:
Port Adelaide
Collingwood
St Kilda
Western Bulldogs
Elimination Final opponent
Semi Final opponent
Preliminary Final opponent
Grand Final opponent
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Ahh BotsMaster … if this does occur, please feel free to come in and post here and tell me I’m wrong!! I will be in heaven.

I honestly can’t see it happening… and I feel Scott in his own optimistic way is well aware of where we stand currently… he knows we have glaring deficiencies we need to work on and the clock is ticking.
 
Jeff76 said:
A ruck and a new midfield. Must recruit a possession winner like Parish (maybe) and in dire need of a tap ruckman to give our mids first sniff. Unfortunately it looks like Conway’s body is looking a lot like Cockatoo’s and won’t hold up in the AFL. Also need someway of changing the mindset of a few players too, need that winning mindset back.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...
2022 felt more like an end than a beginning for a lot of those players… they had gone to the well so many times over so many years and it felt like a closing chapter for many with a party hard celebration… that went overboard…
 
Just from this year we need to boost the midfield with a couple of ins. If we somehow got Smith and Parish then we would look much better with a returning Guthrie.

If we can get the old boys up for one more crack and a proper preseason, then perhaps as early as next year we could go again.

After that will probably be a cliff though.
 
We certainly have to replace some ageing champions as well as ensure our midfield is top 4 quality - we can't continue to concede clearances and contested footy. At our best contested footy was our barometer as we invariably won that stat whenever we took the chocolates. Contested footy isn't just on the mids but they are a vital part.

I wonder how this years Premier will change coaching and recruiting - generally teams try to mimic and improve on the Premier.
I don't think a lot will change for us if anyone apart from the Pies win. If the Pies win with their current style of scoring heavily from the back half then maybe we will inject more speed and more agility/ skill into our back half ?

We had the magic formula in 2022 with being the best at scoring off opposition and defending our turnovers - we just haven't had the ability to replicate on that this season - I think that's reflected in Scott's comments around us lacking consistency and cohesion.
I think 2023 is a bridge too far but look forward how we respond in 2024 , missing finals or an early exit will sting this proud group......
 
D BRIDGE said:
A time machine.
Click to expand...
How about we import some aliens from Andromeda galaxy instead, apparently there is humanoid ones there and they come to visit according to Dr Steven Greer. Humanoid ones with receding hairlines. Maybe that's what Gary Ablett Senior is. ;)
 
Let's not forget that about 8 weeks ago Kingy pretty much had us as a shoe in for the flag.

A LOT has changed since then but it says a couple of main things to me.

1 the game style is right and can win it (not to say other styles can't BTW)

2 injuries, age and relying on so many young guys - maybe a bit too much this year because of injuries - has taken its toll.

As I have said in numerous posts I think many of our older guys who have kept playing (because of point 2 above) are carrying things and/or really feeling the heat.

Back OT. Mids of course, play the obvious younglings and Scratch in particular asap. We have to know.

On the Scott rebuild issue let's see what he thinks, but I can tell you from direct experience that a rebuild is a much different proposition than taking over a mature, if ageing list. Having said that I would not be surprised if he is up for it and does it well.
 
Im not writing off this year, if we go on a run then it's doable. No team is the dominant threat that we have seen in years gone past. Collingwood have weaknesses that good teams can expose, same with the rest of the top 4. It is not beyond any team to go on a run and win it all this year, even us. Maybe especially us given what we know this list can do.

Having said that, even if we do win it all we will still be asking the same question regarding what we need to do for the next flag.

Will this year turn out to be 2015 version 2.0? If we nail a few off season moves then sure, we can reload and go again like we did from 2016. Add one or two prime movers in the midfield aged 24-29 and suddenly our midfield is a threat again. Then it's just a question of how long Hawkins wants to go on for to determine how much longer this list can remain competitive. Hawkins and Cameron is a duo no team really has an answer for, if the delivery to them and the rest of the forward line is elite then we are a top 2 team in the league again.

If we dont nail a few moves then it will be a longer road to the next flag. Going to the draft brings with it risks that the picks might not turn out to be what we hoped they would, but we'd have the opportunity to bring in some top talent, and develop the talent we have (which is very promising when you look at our under 22 players). But that wont detract from the few years we will have to endure when Danger/Duncan/Hawkins/Stewart/2E/Smith et al are all gone. From an off field perspective who knows what damage that could do to the club in lose of membership and lower crowd numbers.

I think if Parish re-signs at Essendon and there is no other midfielders available for trade we will do what we did between 2012-2015: bring in some veterans to stabilise the list as retirements begin to bite, and help keep us at least in the hunt for finals. That will keep the fans turning up, which for the club is vital, as a true list implosion followed by a few season like West Coast are enduring is not something this club wants to contemplate.

...Or we get Parish as a FA, trade for Bailey Smith, Neale and Conway turn out to be superstars, Holmes is the Judd of this generation and the fun times keep rolling.
 
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