Southerntakeover
Hall of Famer
Just came in to vote for sackings
What do we want in this rebuilding (third) year?
- Thread starter John Who
- Start date
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Why would we give Pedlar games? He can hardly stay fit in the 2s and string good games together... McAsey can't be gifted games as we have worked out he is a forward rather than defender for some reason & with Tex, Fog & Thilthorpe playing well there is no room for him.
Cook probably lost his spot to Soligo who has been better than Cook was (although Cook was looking good he did lose momentum before being dropped)
Newchurch should've been given games for sure.
With Doedee's form slump I wouldn't be against Worell coming in, if it's good enough for Coruch to be dropped then Doedee is currently also well below expectations.
Sholl should be in this week for Milera
Cook probably lost his spot to Soligo who has been better than Cook was (although Cook was looking good he did lose momentum before being dropped)
Newchurch should've been given games for sure.
With Doedee's form slump I wouldn't be against Worell coming in, if it's good enough for Coruch to be dropped then Doedee is currently also well below expectations.
Sholl should be in this week for Milera
Coming into this season, all I really wanted to see was improvement. Not demanding finals or anything crazy like that, just maybe 1-2 more wins, a modest climb up the ladder, ideally with a better percentage to indicate we were more competitive in more games.
Last year we won 7 games with a percentage of 82. So far this year we've won 5 with a percentage of 83.8. With 5 games left including Sydney, Carlton and Port. Just breaking even with last year is starting to look like a best case scenario, and more likely we'll be slightly worse.
So, given I'm not going to get what I originally wanted from this year, I'm going to fall back to my next preference. Sackings, please.
Last year we won 7 games with a percentage of 82. So far this year we've won 5 with a percentage of 83.8. With 5 games left including Sydney, Carlton and Port. Just breaking even with last year is starting to look like a best case scenario, and more likely we'll be slightly worse.
So, given I'm not going to get what I originally wanted from this year, I'm going to fall back to my next preference. Sackings, please.
Last edited:
- Moderator
- #31
Give it a rest.
Everyone is entitled to contribute a POV
Or maybe “sack “ refers to your disappointing find from Santa’s bag at Christmas
not new pushy 
Last edited:
- Moderator
- #32
I wanted more from our prospective players that would continue to improve this year ( I thought )
Many seemed to have regressed
Many seemed to have regressed
I hope we start well, go well in the middle and then end well.
Give it a rest.
Everyone is entitled to contribute a POV
Or maybe “sack “ refers to your disappointing find from Santa’s bag at Christmas
Oh dear. That’s lame
You should be sacked
WaynesWorld19
Moderator
- Moderator
- #35
Fogarty, Berry, Hately, Thilthorpe, Hinge, Parnell & Gollant, have improved ....some small steps, others larger steps
Recruits; Dawson, & Soligo have flourished
Schoenberg, Pedlar, Cook have disappointed .....for a variety of reasons; preparation, mindset ect
However, the biggest disappointments this year have been the senior players .....ROB, Smith, Brown, Milera ...and of course injuries to Seedsman (AA squad 2021) and Sloane
Hard for the club to progress, when your leaders are not leading by example
I predicted 9 wins this year .....achievable IMO .....so it's been a fail on many fronts
Start taking our plight seriously. No more winning games we don’t need to win. Draft elite top end talent. This is what I want to see
I’d like to see some young players have great games, maybe even win a few by themselves. Instead we have players playing just ok and aren’t showing star quality. We haven’t had a star player come though for a while, last player Tex??
Nix, VB and Kelly must go. Next year is fine though, I don’t expect it this year.
dogs105
Sweet Kennels Proprietor
But VB is a premiership midfield coach
wasn't that a busted myth?
dogs105
Sweet Kennels Proprietor
I don't know
A sack race where everyone wins a prize!
Red mist
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John, I am away from home in Outback NSW on biz again and have plenty of time this morning to compile a long reply, but other posters be warned. It's a long post.
1) "In one word, one sentence, or one paragraph ..." or one page?
I'd like to see (not in order of preference):
--- consistent selection policies which reward actual good (AFL/SANFL) form and which result in underperforming players being dropped in favour of in-form SANFL players regardless of age, experience or reputation.
{Digression: I'd guess that most of us have played some kind of team sport and are familiar with the processes of promotion for playing well and demotion/dropping for playing poorly. Some clubs of which I was a part were ruthless and dropped/promoted players after one bad/good game, but usually it was after a set of poor/good games.
It works.
Play well in your grade and you keep your place or there's a good chance of promotion. Play poorly, and you're dropped.}
--- drafting which targets players with quality football skills, first and foremost. Character is important, but we have too many nice, well-spoken, come-from-good-families, scrawny and under 183cms kids who get overwhelmed by the speed of AFL footy and are mauled and rag-dolled by much bigger AFL bodies. Forget about defensive, scrappy small forwards who cannot kick beyond about 35m or do not kick goals, and pick players with goal sense and team-first play.
If Nicks is convinced that McHenry, Rowe and Murphy are AFL standard, play them somewhere so that their skills and/or scrappy mongrel have some positive effect, because they are not kicking goals (I know, I know, Murphy kicked 3 last week but that was an aberration).
--- a game plan, and a few Plans B and C etc, which show some flair, innovation, flexibility and reward the joy in playing strong/tough, skilful team footy.
Finally, a lot is said in BF about drafting highly-skilled, big-bodied mids, but the players we do draft are either too scrawny (Jones/Sholl/McHenry) or end up being played out-of-position to accommodate underperforming seniors (Jones/Hately etc). This latter point is well-documented in BF and is a massive Nicks error.
OK, every team needs Key Position talls forward and back, but apart from them I suggest picking highly-skilled players in the 183 to 190cms range who could play anywhere --- back pocket, half-back, half-forward, forward pocket or across the centre and move them around until they excel and gel with the other players. In a rebuild, such experimentation is vital:
--- to find the best-22
--- and with enough flexibility and skill level to create a working team.
The fittest, hardest both-ways-gut-runners with skills can rotate through the midfield.
Take Jones for example. As a junior he was a mid of high potential. From his recruiting page:
" STRENGTHS
- Kicking
- Accumulation
- Versatile
- Tackling
- Agility
- Work rate
- Character
OK, wtf has happened? (Sholl of Rising Star nomination fame, too, for that matter? Highly-skilled but misused by Nicks and thrown around by opponents)
A player with those attributes should be able to play in any non-KPP role; midfield, forward, or back. Many have complained that Jones couldn't get an AFL game as a mid and was tried forward and most recently back, but after 50-odd games his numbers are all "below average".
Currently, I think he is just too small and scrawny to play AFL --- OK, he's shown "some good signs", but good signs don't cut it. Berry and Soligo showed good signs and have moved past "good signs" to actual performance.
(Chayce Jones | AFL)
I'm tired of his "good signs"; tired of his "potential".
Maybe, just m-a-y-b-e he's not good enough? Ditto McHenry, Murphy, Rowe and maybe Hamill as well.
That brings me to Malcolm Blight, from whom many modern Coaches could learn plenty if they studied what he did:
1) put a broom through the playing list and got rid of rusted on, underperforming players, regardless of age/reputation. I remember the panic that ensued after he got rid of McGuinness, McDermott, AJarman and Greg Anderson, and what players they were! At the time, I was stunned.
2) selected and backed-in highly-skilled juniors, particularly Goodwin, Edwards, McLeod (soon-to-be a superstar and dual Norm Smith medallist) and even Kane Johnson.
3) in the first half of the season, Blight experimented with players in different positions.
I remember being shocked by 1), amazed at how well the players in 2) played (stoopidly, I thought Kane Johnson was a dud, but Blighty backed him in week after week), and confused by 3).
Consider Ricciuto/Edwards (originally HB flanker)/ McLeod (good enough to play anywhere)/ and Goodwin (originally HB flanker). All were highly-skilled and all were played where Blight thought they'd be to the best advantage of the team at any particular time, in any game. All of them could defend and kick goals if need be.
Blight was innovative; he took risks. He tried different things and most of them paid off, brilliantly. Ellis forward, in 1997 GF ffs! DJarman thrown forward and the mids told to target him on a lead = 5 goals in the last quarter 1997 GF, wtf!!??
What were the features of the Flag-winning 1997/98 teams? They were:
--- youthful
--- hard-running
--- highly-skilled and
--- very fit (thanks to Neil Craig). Those teams often outlasted and ran over teams, winning from behind especially in major finals eg vs Bulldogs 1997 PF and the staggering second half of the 1998 GF vs NM.
That was after they'd been wrecked by Shaw in 1995/6.
OK, Nicks is no Blight, but the current AFL side (while youthful) are under-skilled especially that most basic skill of accurate kicking. They do not run hard both ways; there's little rebound run from half-back but even when there is it's let down by poor delivery forward. The players must be confused by bewildering selection decisions; little wonder Sholl is rumoured to be leaving, not to mention the potential disenchantment of Cook, Gollant, McAsey, Worrell, Strachan and Newchurch.
What criteria apply when ROB is selected ahead of Strachan, McHenry/Rowe/Murphy ahead of Cook/Gollant/Newchurch??
F'ed if I k.
The one thing I am totally confident about is that their fitness will improve dramatically under Burgess, and I hope like hell he's working on our scrawny kids' strength and endurance.
2) I don't know enough about other sides' rebuilds; didn't pay much attention. Don't care.
I look at Bulldogs 2016, Richmond's hat trick, Melbourne last year and fear that we're a long, long way from our next Flag.
3) No, but it's not about fairness as much as relevance. Those 3 teams did it all in different ways.
Anyway, I'm as pessimistic currently as I've ever been about a Crows side; cattle and Coach.
It's dispiriting.
Today's game will be telecast live here on NSW TV --- I'll watch it, but I'm not looking forward to it.
I used to LOOOVE looking forward to Crows' games.
How about you, AmericanCrow ?
- May 14, 2017
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- Thread starter
- #49
You’re not complying to the rules. One paragraph!!John, I am away from home in Outback NSW on biz again and have plenty of time this morning to compile a long reply, but other posters be warned. It's a long post.
1) "In one word, one sentence, or one paragraph ..." or one page?
I'd like to see (not in order of preference):
--- consistent selection policies which reward actual good (AFL/SANFL) form and which result in underperforming players being dropped in favour of in-form SANFL players regardless of age, experience or reputation.
{Digression: I'd guess that most of us have played some kind of team sport and are familiar with the processes of promotion for playing well and demotion/dropping for playing poorly. Some clubs of which I was a part were ruthless and dropped/promoted players after one bad/good game, but usually it was after a set of poor/good games.
It works.
Play well in your grade and you keep your place or there's a good chance of promotion. Play poorly, and you're dropped.}
--- drafting which targets players with quality football skills, first and foremost. Character is important, but we have too many nice, well-spoken, come-from-good-families, scrawny and under 183cms kids who get overwhelmed by the speed of AFL footy and are mauled and rag-dolled by much bigger AFL bodies. Forget about defensive, scrappy small forwards who cannot kick beyond about 35m or do not kick goals, and pick players with goal sense and team-first play.
If Nicks is convinced that McHenry, Rowe and Murphy are AFL standard, play them somewhere so that their skills and/or scrappy mongrel have some positive effect, because they are not kicking goals (I know, I know, Murphy kicked 3 last week but that was an aberration).
--- a game plan, and a few Plans B and C etc, which show some flair, innovation, flexibility and reward the joy in playing strong/tough, skilful team footy.
Finally, a lot is said in BF about drafting highly-skilled, big-bodied mids, but the players we do draft are either too scrawny (Jones/Sholl/McHenry) or end up being played out-of-position to accommodate underperforming seniors (Jones/Hately etc). This latter point is well-documented in BF and is a massive Nicks error.
OK, every team needs Key Position talls forward and back, but apart from them I suggest picking highly-skilled players in the 183 to 190cms range who could play anywhere --- back pocket, half-back, half-forward, forward pocket or across the centre and move them around until they excel and gel with the other players. In a rebuild, such experimentation is vital:
--- to find the best-22
--- and with enough flexibility and skill level to create a working team.
The fittest, hardest both-ways-gut-runners with skills can rotate through the midfield.
Take Jones for example. As a junior he was a mid of high potential. From his recruiting page:
" STRENGTHS
Jones is a natural ball-winner who can win possession on the inside and outside of the contest. He's got several noticeable strengths such as his outstanding work-rate, his repeated efforts, his ability to runs both ways and his constant pressure around the contest. He's a handy ball user, who can kick on both sides of his body, which is a must-have for midfielders in the modern era.".
- Kicking
- Accumulation
- Versatile
- Tackling
- Agility
- Work rate
- Character
OK, wtf has happened? (Sholl of Rising Star nomination fame, too, for that matter? Highly-skilled but misused by Nicks and thrown around by opponents)
A player with those attributes should be able to play in any non-KPP role; midfield, forward, or back. Many have complained that Jones couldn't get an AFL game as a mid and was tried forward and most recently back, but after 50-odd games his numbers are all "below average".
Currently, I think he is just too small and scrawny to play AFL --- OK, he's shown "some good signs", but good signs don't cut it. Berry and Soligo showed good signs and have moved past "good signs" to actual performance.
(Chayce Jones | AFL)
I'm tired of his "good signs"; tired of his "potential".
Maybe, just m-a-y-b-e he's not good enough? Ditto McHenry, Murphy, Rowe and maybe Hamill as well.
That brings me to Malcolm Blight, from whom many modern Coaches could learn plenty if they studied what he did:
1) put a broom through the playing list and got rid of rusted on, underperforming players, regardless of age/reputation. I remember the panic that ensued after he got rid of McGuinness, McDermott, AJarman and Greg Anderson, and what players they were! At the time, I was stunned.
2) selected and backed-in highly-skilled juniors, particularly Goodwin, Edwards, McLeod (soon-to-be a superstar and dual Norm Smith medallist) and even Kane Johnson.
3) in the first half of the season, Blight experimented with players in different positions.
I remember being shocked by 1), amazed at how well the players in 2) played (stoopidly, I thought Kane Johnson was a dud, but Blighty backed him in week after week), and confused by 3).
Consider Ricciuto/Edwards (originally HB flanker)/ McLeod (good enough to play anywhere)/ and Goodwin (originally HB flanker). All were highly-skilled and all were played where Blight thought they'd be to the best advantage of the team at any particular time, in any game. All of them could defend and kick goals if need be.
Blight was innovative; he took risks. He tried different things and most of them paid off, brilliantly. Ellis forward, in 1997 GF ffs! DJarman thrown forward and the mids told to target him on a lead = 5 goals in the last quarter 1997 GF, wtf!!??
What were the features of the Flag-winning 1997/98 teams? They were:
--- youthful
--- hard-running
--- highly-skilled and
--- very fit (thanks to Neil Craig). Those teams often outlasted and ran over teams, winning from behind especially in major finals eg vs Bulldogs 1997 PF and the staggering second half of the 1998 GF vs NM.
That was after they'd been wrecked by Shaw in 1995/6.
OK, Nicks is no Blight, but the current AFL side (while youthful) are under-skilled especially that most basic skill of accurate kicking. They do not run hard both ways; there's little rebound run from half-back but even when there is it's let down by poor delivery forward. The players must be confused by bewildering selection decisions; little wonder Sholl is rumoured to be leaving, not to mention the potential disenchantment of Cook, Gollant, McAsey, Worrell, Strachan and Newchurch.
What criteria apply when ROB is selected ahead of Strachan, McHenry/Rowe/Murphy ahead of Cook/Gollant/Newchurch??
F'ed if I k.
The one thing I am totally confident about is that their fitness will improve dramatically under Burgess, and I hope like hell he's working on our scrawny kids' strength and endurance.
2) I don't know enough about other sides' rebuilds; didn't pay much attention. Don't care.
I look at Bulldogs 2016, Richmond's hat trick, Melbourne last year and fear that we're a long, long way from our next Flag.
3) No, but it's not about fairness as much as relevance. Those 3 teams did it all in different ways.
Anyway, I'm as pessimistic currently as I've ever been about a Crows side; cattle and Coach.
It's dispiriting.
Today's game will be telecast live here on NSW TV --- I'll watch it, but I'm not looking forward to it.
I used to LOOOVE looking forward to Crows' games.
How about you, AmericanCrow ?
Are we going great? Of course we ain’t. Are we going all bad? I don’t think it’s as bad as it seems. The mere fact that we’re seeing all our recent star picks moving in the right direction and building some solid games - Fog, Thilthorpe, Rachele (before the injury), and even the lesser picks in Soligo and Parnell. Some decent nucleus we can work with in the least for the coming years.
- May 14, 2017
- 11,456
- 12,858
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- West Adelaide
No John-love for Berry?You’re not complying to the rules. One paragraph!!
Are we going great? Of course we ain’t. Are we going all bad? I don’t think it’s as bad as it seems. The mere fact that we’re seeing all our recent star picks moving in the right direction and building some solid games - Fog, Thilthorpe, Rachele (before the injury), and even the lesser picks in Soligo and Parnell. Some decent nucleus we can work with in the least for the coming years.
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