What do you do with Shane Watson?

[Kane McGoodwin]

Ughhhhh, Mitch Marsh has taken 1 test wicket, what makes you think he's a better bowler then Watson?

We could either persist with mediocrity or try someone talented who may have a big future...

 

[the_interloper]

We could either persist with mediocrity or try someone talented who may have a big future...

Watson gets dropped for Peter Handscomb and Marsh comes in for Joe Burns, easy.

 

[Mitchell54]

Watson gets dropped for Peter Handscomb and Marsh comes in for Joe Burns, easy.

Joe Burns has earned his spot in the Side.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

Don't need to as we can bat marsh at #6 & use a specialist batsman at #3. Ie one capable of making regular tons!

Like who? Give me a name.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Like who? Give me a name.

We don't have anyone proven in that position. But that is not an argument for keeping Watson.

I'd happily bat Smith at 3, Clarke at 4, Burns/S Marsh at 5 and Watson/M Marsh at 6.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

We don't have anyone proven in that position. But that is not an argument for keeping Watson.

I'd happily bat Smith at 3, Clarke at 4, Burns/S Marsh at 5 and Watson/M Marsh at 6.

Why move Smith when he has been performing very well at 4? Forget the batting lineup, it doesn't matter if we have Watson at 3 or 6, he is still the best option as an All rounder that we have, atleast until after the ashes.

 

[The_Reaper]

We don't have anyone proven in that position. But that is not an argument for keeping Watson.

I'd happily bat Smith at 3, Clarke at 4, Burns/S Marsh at 5 and Watson/M Marsh at 6.

I'd prefer Shaun Marsh at 3 over Smith.

Think Smith plays too loosely to bat at 3 in England.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Why move Smith when he has been performing very well at 4?

Because we need someone at No.3 who isn't Watson. And that will likely be Smith's eventual position. He's got enough runs under his belt to justify making the change now.

Your default position seems to be to persist with something that isn't working because we don't have guarantees about the alternatives. That's not how you improve a side.

You want to stick with Watson because no one else is proven at No.3. Newsflash: neither is Watson. But you also don't want to move Smith – it's one spot up the order, so I reckon he'll survive.

Ponting moved up the order when he was about the same age as Smith, even a little bit younger. And he didn't have Smith's numbers. Everyone knew that he was good and the future captain, so they promoted him to No.3, moved Langer to open at the end of the 2001 Ashes and that improved the team. They didn't twiddle their thumbs waiting for a guarantee to come from the clouds.

Forget the batting lineup, it doesn't matter if we have Watson at 3 or 6, he is still the best option as an All rounder that we have, atleast until after the ashes.

Based on Watson's performance since the start of 2011, it's nowhere near clear-cut. During that time, he's scored 1776 runs at 31.15 and taken 32 wickets at 35.84. You can't keep picking a guy at No.3 because of his bowling.

Why are you so certain that he's still the best all-rounder available? Is it inconceivable that Mitch Marsh could come in and average 35 at Test level, and do a half-decent job with the ball, therefore making him an automatic improvement on Watson?

Tell me, how bad would Watson need to perform before you agreed it was time to make a change? If he averaged 31 over five years, rather than four, would that sway you?

I agree that they'll probably retain Watson for the Ashes but that could be his last series. With the World Cup and then the Ashes six months later, that's the end of a cycle. I expect wholesale changes after that. Watson needs a shitload of runs if he wants to avoid being retired as a Test cricketer.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I'd prefer Shaun Marsh at 3 over Smith.

Think Smith plays too loosely to bat at 3 in England.

And Shaun Marsh doesn't play loosely?

There's a danger people are overstating the difference between No.3 and No.4.

 

[footyfan1978]

Everyone knew that Ponting was good and the future captain, so they promoted him to No.3, moved Langer to open at the end of the 2001 Ashes and that improved the team. They didn't twiddle their thumbs waiting for a guarantee to come from the clouds.

Think you may have your sense of what exactly happened a bit out of whack there. Langer from what I recall was not in side at the time. He was on tour and Slater from memory was having personal issues and form issues and was deemed best to leave him out of side. It might have been last Test of the tour. Langer and Ponting had both had stints at 3 and were still finding their way at that level. In fact if I remember they were both on the winning series to West Indies in 1995 as youngsters. Ponting was very young and think Blewett was still in Test side. Langer was on tour and probably 12th man a lot in West Indies.
Ponting was always destined to be a number 3. He was a natural counter attacker and ideal for it. Langer himself had not really defined a specific role but was used at number 3 at times before and after Ponting got tried their too. The thing was Ponting was still very young and not mature as a person or cricketer but he had the talent as we all know. From memory Langer had a bit of bad luck at times getting given out with quite a few dodgy decisions in Pakistan and such places so never could cement his place in side. That time he opened in England I think was very first time and simply because Slater got dropped. I think Langer made a century and unfortunately for Slater you do not give a sucker an even break as Langer got given another go next series and was playing too well to move. I think the timing of Ponting and Langer both securing the spots they would end up making their mark was fortunate for whole team as fitted nicely with where Mark Waugh and Steve Waugh liked to bat. Ponting was already batting at no.3 in that series, not Langer as you seemed to think. I do not think Langer was even planned to open. They probably thought he would bat somewhere 3 to 6 for a number of years and find a role but for some reason opening just ended up suiting him. I always thought when Mark Taylor was finishing up that Matthew Elliott and Michael Slater would be the openers. Never did I imagine Hayden and Langer would somehow find their way opening together and Elliott knee would get screwed my Mark Waugh and never really make it back. Slater too never made it back and probably ended a year or more earlier than expected.

First Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater b Gough 77 82 13 0 93.90
M L Hayden c White b Giles 35 41 6 1 85.37
R T Ponting lbw b Gough 11 13 2 0 84.62
M E Waugh c †Stewart b Caddick 49 143 7 0 34.27
S R Waugh* lbw b Gough 105 181 13 0 58.01
D R Martyn c Trescothick b Butcher 105 165 15 0 63.64
A C Gilchrist† c Caddick b White 152 143 20 5 106.29
S K Warne c Atherton b Butcher 8 10 2 0 80.00
B Lee c Atherton b Butcher 0 1 0 0 0.00
J N Gillespie lbw b Butcher 0 3 0 0 0.00
G D McGrath not out 1 19 0 0 5.26
Extras (b 3, lb 7, nb 23) 33
Total All Out (131.0 overs @ 4.40 rpo) 576


Second Test

Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater c †Stewart b Caddick 25 62 2 0 40.32
M L Hayden c Butcher b Caddick 0 5 0 0 0.00
R T Ponting c Thorpe b Gough 14 12 3 0 116.67
M E Waugh run out 108 170 14 0 63.53
S R Waugh* c †Stewart b Cork 45 97 7 0 46.39
D R Martyn c †Stewart b Caddick 52 99 6 0 52.53
A C Gilchrist† c †Stewart b Gough 90 121 12 0 74.38
S K Warne c †Stewart b Caddick 5 4 1 0 125.00
B Lee b Caddick 20 45 3 0 44.44
J N Gillespie b Gough 9 14 2 0 64.29
G D McGrath not out 0 1 0 0 0.00
Extras (lb 9, w 1, nb 23) 33
Total All Out (101.1 overs @ 3.96 rpo) 401


Australia 2nd Innings (target 14) R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden not out 6 8 0 0 75.00
M J Slater c Butcher b Caddick 4 5 1 0 80.00
R T Ponting lbw b Gough 4 3 0 0 133.33
M E Waugh not out 0 3 0 0 0.00
S R Waugh*
D R Martyn
A C Gilchrist†
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras 0
Total 2 wickets (3.1 overs @ 4.42 rpo) 14


Third Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater b Gough 15 49 1 0 30.61
M L Hayden lbw b Tudor 33 42 7 0 78.57
R T Ponting c †Stewart b Gough 14 20 3 0 70.00
M E Waugh c Atherton b Tudor 15 44 3 0 34.09
S R Waugh* c Atherton b Caddick 13 30 2 0 43.33
D R Martyn c †Stewart b Caddick 4 8 1 0 50.00
A C Gilchrist† c Atherton b Tudor 54 59 10 0 91.53
S K Warne lbw b Caddick 0 2 0 0 0.00
B Lee c Butcher b Tudor 4 14 0 0 28.57
J N Gillespie not out 27 62 4 0 43.55
G D McGrath c Butcher b Tudor 2 4 0 0 50.00
Extras (lb 3, w 1, nb 5) 9
Total All Out (54.5 overs @ 3.47 rpo) 190

Australia 2nd Innings (target 158) R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden lbw b Tudor 42 51 7 0 82.35
M J Slater c Trescothick b Caddick 12 17 2 0 70.59
R T Ponting c †Stewart b Croft 17 31 3 0 54.84
M E Waugh not out 42 45 7 0 93.33
S R Waugh* retired hurt 1 1 0 0 100.00
D R Martyn not out 33 37 6 0 89.19
A C Gilchrist†
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (lb 4, nb 7) 11
Total 3 wickets (29.2 overs @ 5.39 rpo) 158


Fourth Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater lbw b Caddick 21 40 2 0 52.50
M L Hayden lbw b Caddick 15 37 1 0 40.54
R T Ponting c †Stewart b Tudor 144 154 20 3 93.51
M E Waugh c Ramprakash b Caddick 72 147 9 0 48.98
D R Martyn c †Stewart b Gough 118 135 17 0 87.41
S M Katich b Gough 15 42 3 0 35.71
A C Gilchrist*† c Trescothick b Gough 19 20 4 0 95.00
S K Warne c †Stewart b Gough 0 8 0 0 0.00
B Lee c Ramprakash b Mullally 0 4 0 0 0.00
J N Gillespie c Atherton b Gough 5 17 1 0 29.41
G D McGrath not out 8 6 2 0 133.33
Extras (b 5, lb 15, w 1, nb 9) 30
Total All Out (100.1 overs @ 4.46 rpo) 447


Australia 2nd Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden c †Stewart b Mullally 35 99 6 0 35.35
M J Slater b Gough 16 23 2 0 69.57
R T Ponting lbw b Gough 72 72 10 1 100.00
M E Waugh not out 24 28 3 0 85.71
D R Martyn lbw b Caddick 6 20 1 0 30.00
S M Katich not out 0 6 0 0 0.00
A C Gilchrist*†
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (b 5, lb 7, nb 11) 23
Total 4 wickets declared (39.3 overs @ 4.46 rpo) 176

Fifth Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden c Trescothick b Tufnell 68 125 9 0 54.40
J L Langer retired hurt 102 186 12 1 54.84
R T Ponting c Atherton b Ormond 62 102 8 0 60.78
M E Waugh b Gough 120 176 16 2 68.18
S R Waugh* not out 157 256 21 1 61.33
A C Gilchrist† c Ramprakash b Afzaal 25 32 2 1 78.13
D R Martyn not out 64 54 10 0 118.52
B Lee
S K Warne
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (b 10, lb 13, w 1, nb 19) 43
Total 4 wickets declared (152.0 overs @ 4.22 rpo) 641

England lost by an innings after following on so Langer never had to bat again after copping a bad hit on helmet in first innings.

First Test of next Aussie summer in Brisbane
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
J L Langer c Vettori b McMillan 104 231 13 0 45.02
M L Hayden c Richardson b Cairns 136 195 20 2 69.74
R T Ponting c Vettori b Cairns 5 7 0 0 71.43
M E Waugh lbw b Astle 0 5 0 0 0.00
S R Waugh* c †Parore b McMillan 3 24 0 0 12.50
D R Martyn c Vettori b McMillan 4 10 0 0 40.00
A C Gilchrist† c sub b Cairns 118 158 17 1 74.68
S K Warne c Sinclair b Cairns 22 40 2 0 55.00
B Lee c †Parore b Cairns 61 93 9 1 65.59
J N Gillespie not out 20 31 3 0 64.52
G D McGrath
Extras (lb 4, w 1, nb 8) 13
Total 9 wickets declared (131.0 overs @ 3.71 rpo) 486

Australia 2nd Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
A C Gilchrist† b Cairns 20 16 3 0 125.00
M L Hayden run out 13 15 1 0 86.67
R T Ponting not out 32 29 2 1 110.34
J L Langer not out 18 25 1 0 72.00
S R Waugh*
D R Martyn
M E Waugh
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (nb 1) 1
Total 2 wickets declared (14.0 overs @ 6.00 rpo) 84

As we can see now Ponting was already batting no .3 in England. Langer was not playing in that side until final Test when Slater got dropped and Ponting did not really make any decent innings until the fourth Test. The one before Langer came back into the Test side.

Actually just looked up a year earlier and can see in 1999-2000 summer in Australia Langer was batting number 3 and Ponting number 6.
Here is one where Langer made a double ton at SCG and Ponting a century at no.6 spot.

Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
G S Blewett b B K Venkatesh Prasad 19 54 0 0 35.19
M J Slater c †M S K Prasad b Srinath 1 11 0 0 9.09
J L Langer c B K Venkatesh Prasad b Tendulkar 223 355 30 0 62.82
M E Waugh b Ganguly 32 70 5 1 45.71
S R Waugh* lbw b Srinath 57 124 9 0 45.97
R T Ponting not out 141 183 17 1 77.05
A C Gilchrist† not out 45 56 5 0 80.36
S K Warne
D W Fleming
B Lee
G D McGrath
Extras (b 2, lb 21, nb 11) 34
Total 5 wickets declared (140.2 overs @ 3.93 rpo) 552

 

[the_interloper]

Think you may have your sense of what exactly happened a bit out of whack there. Langer from what I recall was not in side at the time. He was on tour and Slater from memory was having personal issues and form issues and was deemed best to leave him out of side. It might have been last Test of the tour. Langer and Ponting had both had stints at 3 and were still finding their way at that level. In fact if I remember they were both on the winning series to West Indies in 1995 as youngsters. Ponting was very young and think Blewett was still in Test side. Langer was on tour and probably 12th man a lot in West Indies.
Ponting was always destined to be a number 3. He was a natural counter attacker and ideal for it. Langer himself had not really defined a specific role but was used at number 3 at times before and after Ponting got tried their too. The thing was Ponting was still very young and not mature as a person or cricketer but he had the talent as we all know. From memory Langer had a bit of bad luck at times getting given out with quite a few dodgy decisions in Pakistan and such places so never could cement his place in side. That time he opened in England I think was very first time and simply because Slater got dropped. I think Langer made a century and unfortunately for Slater you do not give a sucker an even break as Langer got given another go next series and was playing too well to move. I think the timing of Ponting and Langer both securing the spots they would end up making their mark was fortunate for whole team as fitted nicely with where Mark Waugh and Steve Waugh liked to bat. Ponting was already batting at no.3 in that series, not Langer as you seemed to think. I do not think Langer was even planned to open. They probably thought he would bat somewhere 3 to 6 for a number of years and find a role but for some reason opening just ended up suiting him. I always thought when Mark Taylor was finishing up that Matthew Elliott and Michael Slater would be the openers. Never did I imagine Hayden and Langer would somehow find their way opening together and Elliott knee would get screwed my Mark Waugh and never really make it back. Slater too never made it back and probably ended a year or more earlier than expected.

First Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater b Gough 77 82 13 0 93.90
M L Hayden c White b Giles 35 41 6 1 85.37
R T Ponting lbw b Gough 11 13 2 0 84.62
M E Waugh c †Stewart b Caddick 49 143 7 0 34.27
S R Waugh* lbw b Gough 105 181 13 0 58.01
D R Martyn c Trescothick b Butcher 105 165 15 0 63.64
A C Gilchrist† c Caddick b White 152 143 20 5 106.29
S K Warne c Atherton b Butcher 8 10 2 0 80.00
B Lee c Atherton b Butcher 0 1 0 0 0.00
J N Gillespie lbw b Butcher 0 3 0 0 0.00
G D McGrath not out 1 19 0 0 5.26
Extras (b 3, lb 7, nb 23) 33
Total All Out (131.0 overs @ 4.40 rpo) 576


Second Test

Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater c †Stewart b Caddick 25 62 2 0 40.32
M L Hayden c Butcher b Caddick 0 5 0 0 0.00
R T Ponting c Thorpe b Gough 14 12 3 0 116.67
M E Waugh run out 108 170 14 0 63.53
S R Waugh* c †Stewart b Cork 45 97 7 0 46.39
D R Martyn c †Stewart b Caddick 52 99 6 0 52.53
A C Gilchrist† c †Stewart b Gough 90 121 12 0 74.38
S K Warne c †Stewart b Caddick 5 4 1 0 125.00
B Lee b Caddick 20 45 3 0 44.44
J N Gillespie b Gough 9 14 2 0 64.29
G D McGrath not out 0 1 0 0 0.00
Extras (lb 9, w 1, nb 23) 33
Total All Out (101.1 overs @ 3.96 rpo) 401


Australia 2nd Innings (target 14) R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden not out 6 8 0 0 75.00
M J Slater c Butcher b Caddick 4 5 1 0 80.00
R T Ponting lbw b Gough 4 3 0 0 133.33
M E Waugh not out 0 3 0 0 0.00
S R Waugh*
D R Martyn
A C Gilchrist†
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras 0
Total 2 wickets (3.1 overs @ 4.42 rpo) 14


Third Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater b Gough 15 49 1 0 30.61
M L Hayden lbw b Tudor 33 42 7 0 78.57
R T Ponting c †Stewart b Gough 14 20 3 0 70.00
M E Waugh c Atherton b Tudor 15 44 3 0 34.09
S R Waugh* c Atherton b Caddick 13 30 2 0 43.33
D R Martyn c †Stewart b Caddick 4 8 1 0 50.00
A C Gilchrist† c Atherton b Tudor 54 59 10 0 91.53
S K Warne lbw b Caddick 0 2 0 0 0.00
B Lee c Butcher b Tudor 4 14 0 0 28.57
J N Gillespie not out 27 62 4 0 43.55
G D McGrath c Butcher b Tudor 2 4 0 0 50.00
Extras (lb 3, w 1, nb 5) 9
Total All Out (54.5 overs @ 3.47 rpo) 190

Australia 2nd Innings (target 158) R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden lbw b Tudor 42 51 7 0 82.35
M J Slater c Trescothick b Caddick 12 17 2 0 70.59
R T Ponting c †Stewart b Croft 17 31 3 0 54.84
M E Waugh not out 42 45 7 0 93.33
S R Waugh* retired hurt 1 1 0 0 100.00
D R Martyn not out 33 37 6 0 89.19
A C Gilchrist†
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (lb 4, nb 7) 11
Total 3 wickets (29.2 overs @ 5.39 rpo) 158


Fourth Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater lbw b Caddick 21 40 2 0 52.50
M L Hayden lbw b Caddick 15 37 1 0 40.54
R T Ponting c †Stewart b Tudor 144 154 20 3 93.51
M E Waugh c Ramprakash b Caddick 72 147 9 0 48.98
D R Martyn c †Stewart b Gough 118 135 17 0 87.41
S M Katich b Gough 15 42 3 0 35.71
A C Gilchrist*† c Trescothick b Gough 19 20 4 0 95.00
S K Warne c †Stewart b Gough 0 8 0 0 0.00
B Lee c Ramprakash b Mullally 0 4 0 0 0.00
J N Gillespie c Atherton b Gough 5 17 1 0 29.41
G D McGrath not out 8 6 2 0 133.33
Extras (b 5, lb 15, w 1, nb 9) 30
Total All Out (100.1 overs @ 4.46 rpo) 447


Australia 2nd Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden c †Stewart b Mullally 35 99 6 0 35.35
M J Slater b Gough 16 23 2 0 69.57
R T Ponting lbw b Gough 72 72 10 1 100.00
M E Waugh not out 24 28 3 0 85.71
D R Martyn lbw b Caddick 6 20 1 0 30.00
S M Katich not out 0 6 0 0 0.00
A C Gilchrist*†
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (b 5, lb 7, nb 11) 23
Total 4 wickets declared (39.3 overs @ 4.46 rpo) 176

Fifth Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden c Trescothick b Tufnell 68 125 9 0 54.40
J L Langer retired hurt 102 186 12 1 54.84
R T Ponting c Atherton b Ormond 62 102 8 0 60.78
M E Waugh b Gough 120 176 16 2 68.18
S R Waugh* not out 157 256 21 1 61.33
A C Gilchrist† c Ramprakash b Afzaal 25 32 2 1 78.13
D R Martyn not out 64 54 10 0 118.52
B Lee
S K Warne
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (b 10, lb 13, w 1, nb 19) 43
Total 4 wickets declared (152.0 overs @ 4.22 rpo) 641

England lost by an innings after following on so Langer never had to bat again after copping a bad hit on helmet in first innings.

First Test of next Aussie summer in Brisbane
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
J L Langer c Vettori b McMillan 104 231 13 0 45.02
M L Hayden c Richardson b Cairns 136 195 20 2 69.74
R T Ponting c Vettori b Cairns 5 7 0 0 71.43
M E Waugh lbw b Astle 0 5 0 0 0.00
S R Waugh* c †Parore b McMillan 3 24 0 0 12.50
D R Martyn c Vettori b McMillan 4 10 0 0 40.00
A C Gilchrist† c sub b Cairns 118 158 17 1 74.68
S K Warne c Sinclair b Cairns 22 40 2 0 55.00
B Lee c †Parore b Cairns 61 93 9 1 65.59
J N Gillespie not out 20 31 3 0 64.52
G D McGrath
Extras (lb 4, w 1, nb 8) 13
Total 9 wickets declared (131.0 overs @ 3.71 rpo) 486

Australia 2nd Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
A C Gilchrist† b Cairns 20 16 3 0 125.00
M L Hayden run out 13 15 1 0 86.67
R T Ponting not out 32 29 2 1 110.34
J L Langer not out 18 25 1 0 72.00
S R Waugh*
D R Martyn
M E Waugh
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (nb 1) 1
Total 2 wickets declared (14.0 overs @ 6.00 rpo) 84

As we can see now Ponting was already batting no .3 in England. Langer was not playing in that side until final Test when Slater got dropped and Ponting did not really make any decent innings until the fourth Test. The one before Langer came back into the Test side.

Actually just looked up a year earlier and can see in 1999-2000 summer in Australia Langer was batting number 3 and Ponting number 6.
Here is one where Langer made a double ton at SCG and Ponting a century at no.6 spot.

Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
G S Blewett b B K Venkatesh Prasad 19 54 0 0 35.19
M J Slater c †M S K Prasad b Srinath 1 11 0 0 9.09
J L Langer c B K Venkatesh Prasad b Tendulkar 223 355 30 0 62.82
M E Waugh b Ganguly 32 70 5 1 45.71
S R Waugh* lbw b Srinath 57 124 9 0 45.97
R T Ponting not out 141 183 17 1 77.05
A C Gilchrist† not out 45 56 5 0 80.36
S K Warne
D W Fleming
B Lee
G D McGrath
Extras (b 2, lb 21, nb 11) 34
Total 5 wickets declared (140.2 overs @ 3.93 rpo) 552

We all have Cricinfo and are able to look up scorecards, just saying.

 

[QAFL_Fan]

Not to mention that Ponting had been a number 3 for most of his first class career, had batted at #3 at pretty much every level he played an openly sought to bat at #3 for the test side once Boone retired.

He did his time at #6, like most players should and then moved.

If Smith wants to bat 3, he will bat there. He hasn't stated his position either way at this point, but given he was Captain for the last 3 tests - he certainly had the choice to bat 3 and didn't.

If Smith came out publicly and stated he wants to bat 3, there isn't a person in Australian cricket who would deny him. I imagine Watto would be pretty pleased about it too!

 

[footyfan1978]

We all have Cricinfo and are able to look up scorecards, just saying.

Nice.
Just highlighting some people's re-writing of history does not fit with actual reality.
A few scoreboards making it clear.
I know people's awareness is not all the same.
Just saying...

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Think you may have your sense of what exactly happened a bit out of whack there. Langer from what I recall was not in side at the time. He was on tour and Slater from memory was having personal issues and form issues and was deemed best to leave him out of side. It might have been last Test of the tour. Langer and Ponting had both had stints at 3 and were still finding their way at that level. In fact if I remember they were both on the winning series to West Indies in 1995 as youngsters. Ponting was very young and think Blewett was still in Test side. Langer was on tour and probably 12th man a lot in West Indies.
Ponting was always destined to be a number 3. He was a natural counter attacker and ideal for it. Langer himself had not really defined a specific role but was used at number 3 at times before and after Ponting got tried their too. The thing was Ponting was still very young and not mature as a person or cricketer but he had the talent as we all know. From memory Langer had a bit of bad luck at times getting given out with quite a few dodgy decisions in Pakistan and such places so never could cement his place in side. That time he opened in England I think was very first time and simply because Slater got dropped. I think Langer made a century and unfortunately for Slater you do not give a sucker an even break as Langer got given another go next series and was playing too well to move. I think the timing of Ponting and Langer both securing the spots they would end up making their mark was fortunate for whole team as fitted nicely with where Mark Waugh and Steve Waugh liked to bat. Ponting was already batting at no.3 in that series, not Langer as you seemed to think. I do not think Langer was even planned to open. They probably thought he would bat somewhere 3 to 6 for a number of years and find a role but for some reason opening just ended up suiting him. I always thought when Mark Taylor was finishing up that Matthew Elliott and Michael Slater would be the openers. Never did I imagine Hayden and Langer would somehow find their way opening together and Elliott knee would get screwed my Mark Waugh and never really make it back. Slater too never made it back and probably ended a year or more earlier than expected.

First Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater b Gough 77 82 13 0 93.90
M L Hayden c White b Giles 35 41 6 1 85.37
R T Ponting lbw b Gough 11 13 2 0 84.62
M E Waugh c †Stewart b Caddick 49 143 7 0 34.27
S R Waugh* lbw b Gough 105 181 13 0 58.01
D R Martyn c Trescothick b Butcher 105 165 15 0 63.64
A C Gilchrist† c Caddick b White 152 143 20 5 106.29
S K Warne c Atherton b Butcher 8 10 2 0 80.00
B Lee c Atherton b Butcher 0 1 0 0 0.00
J N Gillespie lbw b Butcher 0 3 0 0 0.00
G D McGrath not out 1 19 0 0 5.26
Extras (b 3, lb 7, nb 23) 33
Total All Out (131.0 overs @ 4.40 rpo) 576


Second Test

Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater c †Stewart b Caddick 25 62 2 0 40.32
M L Hayden c Butcher b Caddick 0 5 0 0 0.00
R T Ponting c Thorpe b Gough 14 12 3 0 116.67
M E Waugh run out 108 170 14 0 63.53
S R Waugh* c †Stewart b Cork 45 97 7 0 46.39
D R Martyn c †Stewart b Caddick 52 99 6 0 52.53
A C Gilchrist† c †Stewart b Gough 90 121 12 0 74.38
S K Warne c †Stewart b Caddick 5 4 1 0 125.00
B Lee b Caddick 20 45 3 0 44.44
J N Gillespie b Gough 9 14 2 0 64.29
G D McGrath not out 0 1 0 0 0.00
Extras (lb 9, w 1, nb 23) 33
Total All Out (101.1 overs @ 3.96 rpo) 401


Australia 2nd Innings (target 14) R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden not out 6 8 0 0 75.00
M J Slater c Butcher b Caddick 4 5 1 0 80.00
R T Ponting lbw b Gough 4 3 0 0 133.33
M E Waugh not out 0 3 0 0 0.00
S R Waugh*
D R Martyn
A C Gilchrist†
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras 0
Total 2 wickets (3.1 overs @ 4.42 rpo) 14


Third Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater b Gough 15 49 1 0 30.61
M L Hayden lbw b Tudor 33 42 7 0 78.57
R T Ponting c †Stewart b Gough 14 20 3 0 70.00
M E Waugh c Atherton b Tudor 15 44 3 0 34.09
S R Waugh* c Atherton b Caddick 13 30 2 0 43.33
D R Martyn c †Stewart b Caddick 4 8 1 0 50.00
A C Gilchrist† c Atherton b Tudor 54 59 10 0 91.53
S K Warne lbw b Caddick 0 2 0 0 0.00
B Lee c Butcher b Tudor 4 14 0 0 28.57
J N Gillespie not out 27 62 4 0 43.55
G D McGrath c Butcher b Tudor 2 4 0 0 50.00
Extras (lb 3, w 1, nb 5) 9
Total All Out (54.5 overs @ 3.47 rpo) 190

Australia 2nd Innings (target 158) R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden lbw b Tudor 42 51 7 0 82.35
M J Slater c Trescothick b Caddick 12 17 2 0 70.59
R T Ponting c †Stewart b Croft 17 31 3 0 54.84
M E Waugh not out 42 45 7 0 93.33
S R Waugh* retired hurt 1 1 0 0 100.00
D R Martyn not out 33 37 6 0 89.19
A C Gilchrist†
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (lb 4, nb 7) 11
Total 3 wickets (29.2 overs @ 5.39 rpo) 158


Fourth Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater lbw b Caddick 21 40 2 0 52.50
M L Hayden lbw b Caddick 15 37 1 0 40.54
R T Ponting c †Stewart b Tudor 144 154 20 3 93.51
M E Waugh c Ramprakash b Caddick 72 147 9 0 48.98
D R Martyn c †Stewart b Gough 118 135 17 0 87.41
S M Katich b Gough 15 42 3 0 35.71
A C Gilchrist*† c Trescothick b Gough 19 20 4 0 95.00
S K Warne c †Stewart b Gough 0 8 0 0 0.00
B Lee c Ramprakash b Mullally 0 4 0 0 0.00
J N Gillespie c Atherton b Gough 5 17 1 0 29.41
G D McGrath not out 8 6 2 0 133.33
Extras (b 5, lb 15, w 1, nb 9) 30
Total All Out (100.1 overs @ 4.46 rpo) 447


Australia 2nd Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden c †Stewart b Mullally 35 99 6 0 35.35
M J Slater b Gough 16 23 2 0 69.57
R T Ponting lbw b Gough 72 72 10 1 100.00
M E Waugh not out 24 28 3 0 85.71
D R Martyn lbw b Caddick 6 20 1 0 30.00
S M Katich not out 0 6 0 0 0.00
A C Gilchrist*†
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (b 5, lb 7, nb 11) 23
Total 4 wickets declared (39.3 overs @ 4.46 rpo) 176

Fifth Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden c Trescothick b Tufnell 68 125 9 0 54.40
J L Langer retired hurt 102 186 12 1 54.84
R T Ponting c Atherton b Ormond 62 102 8 0 60.78
M E Waugh b Gough 120 176 16 2 68.18
S R Waugh* not out 157 256 21 1 61.33
A C Gilchrist† c Ramprakash b Afzaal 25 32 2 1 78.13
D R Martyn not out 64 54 10 0 118.52
B Lee
S K Warne
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (b 10, lb 13, w 1, nb 19) 43
Total 4 wickets declared (152.0 overs @ 4.22 rpo) 641

England lost by an innings after following on so Langer never had to bat again after copping a bad hit on helmet in first innings.

First Test of next Aussie summer in Brisbane
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
J L Langer c Vettori b McMillan 104 231 13 0 45.02
M L Hayden c Richardson b Cairns 136 195 20 2 69.74
R T Ponting c Vettori b Cairns 5 7 0 0 71.43
M E Waugh lbw b Astle 0 5 0 0 0.00
S R Waugh* c †Parore b McMillan 3 24 0 0 12.50
D R Martyn c Vettori b McMillan 4 10 0 0 40.00
A C Gilchrist† c sub b Cairns 118 158 17 1 74.68
S K Warne c Sinclair b Cairns 22 40 2 0 55.00
B Lee c †Parore b Cairns 61 93 9 1 65.59
J N Gillespie not out 20 31 3 0 64.52
G D McGrath
Extras (lb 4, w 1, nb 8) 13
Total 9 wickets declared (131.0 overs @ 3.71 rpo) 486

Australia 2nd Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
A C Gilchrist† b Cairns 20 16 3 0 125.00
M L Hayden run out 13 15 1 0 86.67
R T Ponting not out 32 29 2 1 110.34
J L Langer not out 18 25 1 0 72.00
S R Waugh*
D R Martyn
M E Waugh
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (nb 1) 1
Total 2 wickets declared (14.0 overs @ 6.00 rpo) 84

As we can see now Ponting was already batting no .3 in England. Langer was not playing in that side until final Test when Slater got dropped and Ponting did not really make any decent innings until the fourth Test. The one before Langer came back into the Test side.

Actually just looked up a year earlier and can see in 1999-2000 summer in Australia Langer was batting number 3 and Ponting number 6.
Here is one where Langer made a double ton at SCG and Ponting a century at no.6 spot.

Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
G S Blewett b B K Venkatesh Prasad 19 54 0 0 35.19
M J Slater c †M S K Prasad b Srinath 1 11 0 0 9.09
J L Langer c B K Venkatesh Prasad b Tendulkar 223 355 30 0 62.82
M E Waugh b Ganguly 32 70 5 1 45.71
S R Waugh* lbw b Srinath 57 124 9 0 45.97
R T Ponting not out 141 183 17 1 77.05
A C Gilchrist† not out 45 56 5 0 80.36
S K Warne
D W Fleming
B Lee
G D McGrath
Extras (b 2, lb 21, nb 11) 34
Total 5 wickets declared (140.2 overs @ 3.93 rpo) 552

That's all well and good but what exactly is the relevance to Shane Watson?

He's nowhere near good enough for no3 (possibly not even the side at all, hopefully M.Marsh sends him packing) and I liked the idea from another poster. Glue factory

 

[footyfan1978]

Not to mention that Ponting had been a number 3 for most of his first class career, had batted at #3 at pretty much every level he played an openly sought to bat at #3 for the test side once Boone retired.

He did his time at #6, like most players should and then moved.

If Smith wants to bat 3, he will bat there. He hasn't stated his position either way at this point, but given he was Captain for the last 3 tests - he certainly had the choice to bat 3 and didn't.

If Smith came out publicly and stated he wants to bat 3, there isn't a person in Australian cricket who would deny him. I imagine Watto would be pretty pleased about it too!

Do not see Smith a number 3 batsmen at all.
A hot streak of great form is great but still need to have a sense of overall nature of batsmen and he is not your typical number 3. Steve Waugh had great stats too but never was a top order player. Some thought just because he had good form he should move to number 3 but players themselves know best what stage of batting order generally suits them. Guys like Mark Waugh were happy to bat at 4 and Steve Waugh 5 or even 6 at times. Not every good batsmen is a top order player. Smith looks a typical number 4 to 6 bat to me. If you try to make him into a number 3 if it is not his thing, it is not well thought out.
He looks comfortable where he is and never read him or anyone sensible asking Smith to move to 3.

 

[footyfan1978]

That's all well and good but what exactly is the relevance to Shane Watson?

That particular post never was anything directly about Watson from me. I made my point about Watson clear way earlier in thread for those that read and comprehend. The recent post was more just showing about the context of Langer and Ponting in regard to Ponting's timing of moving from 6 to 3 was all wrong by the poster. Langer did not move from 3 to open so Ponting can slot into 3, but that is what was tried to be made out as someone else's side point.

I'm not a fan of people making things up that are simply not true and using things out of context. I was just putting some context in there. Scoreboards just made sure if the person checked they may realize their error just a memory thing.

 

[QAFL_Fan]

Do not see Smith a number 3 batsmen at all.
A hot streak of great form is great but still need to have a sense of overall nature of batsmen and he is not your typical number 3. Steve Waugh had great stats too but never was a top order player. Some thought just because he had good form he should move to number 3 but players themselves know best what stage of batting order generally suits them. Guys like Mark Waugh were happy to bat at 4 and Steve Waugh 5 or even 6 at times. Not every good batsmen is a top order player. Smith looks a typical number 4 to 6 bat to me. If you try to make him into a number 3 if it is not his thing, it is not well thought out.
He looks comfortable where he is and never read him or anyone sensible asking Smith to move to 3.

When Smith became captain of NSW, the first thing he did was promote himself to #3 in the batting order. He was excellent in that role, which culminated in his return to the Test side and the 12 months that have followed.

I wouldn't personally move him from where he is, but there is merit to him batting at 3.

My view is that the best players should pick their spots, and the other guys fill the holes around them. If that means Watson is at 3, I'm fine with that.

 

[Beutbrute]

Think you may have your sense of what exactly happened a bit out of whack there. Langer from what I recall was not in side at the time. He was on tour and Slater from memory was having personal issues and form issues and was deemed best to leave him out of side. It might have been last Test of the tour. Langer and Ponting had both had stints at 3 and were still finding their way at that level. In fact if I remember they were both on the winning series to West Indies in 1995 as youngsters. Ponting was very young and think Blewett was still in Test side. Langer was on tour and probably 12th man a lot in West Indies.
Ponting was always destined to be a number 3. He was a natural counter attacker and ideal for it. Langer himself had not really defined a specific role but was used at number 3 at times before and after Ponting got tried their too. The thing was Ponting was still very young and not mature as a person or cricketer but he had the talent as we all know. From memory Langer had a bit of bad luck at times getting given out with quite a few dodgy decisions in Pakistan and such places so never could cement his place in side. That time he opened in England I think was very first time and simply because Slater got dropped. I think Langer made a century and unfortunately for Slater you do not give a sucker an even break as Langer got given another go next series and was playing too well to move. I think the timing of Ponting and Langer both securing the spots they would end up making their mark was fortunate for whole team as fitted nicely with where Mark Waugh and Steve Waugh liked to bat. Ponting was already batting at no.3 in that series, not Langer as you seemed to think. I do not think Langer was even planned to open. They probably thought he would bat somewhere 3 to 6 for a number of years and find a role but for some reason opening just ended up suiting him. I always thought when Mark Taylor was finishing up that Matthew Elliott and Michael Slater would be the openers. Never did I imagine Hayden and Langer would somehow find their way opening together and Elliott knee would get screwed my Mark Waugh and never really make it back. Slater too never made it back and probably ended a year or more earlier than expected.

First Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater b Gough 77 82 13 0 93.90
M L Hayden c White b Giles 35 41 6 1 85.37
R T Ponting lbw b Gough 11 13 2 0 84.62
M E Waugh c †Stewart b Caddick 49 143 7 0 34.27
S R Waugh* lbw b Gough 105 181 13 0 58.01
D R Martyn c Trescothick b Butcher 105 165 15 0 63.64
A C Gilchrist† c Caddick b White 152 143 20 5 106.29
S K Warne c Atherton b Butcher 8 10 2 0 80.00
B Lee c Atherton b Butcher 0 1 0 0 0.00
J N Gillespie lbw b Butcher 0 3 0 0 0.00
G D McGrath not out 1 19 0 0 5.26
Extras (b 3, lb 7, nb 23) 33
Total All Out (131.0 overs @ 4.40 rpo) 576


Second Test

Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater c †Stewart b Caddick 25 62 2 0 40.32
M L Hayden c Butcher b Caddick 0 5 0 0 0.00
R T Ponting c Thorpe b Gough 14 12 3 0 116.67
M E Waugh run out 108 170 14 0 63.53
S R Waugh* c †Stewart b Cork 45 97 7 0 46.39
D R Martyn c †Stewart b Caddick 52 99 6 0 52.53
A C Gilchrist† c †Stewart b Gough 90 121 12 0 74.38
S K Warne c †Stewart b Caddick 5 4 1 0 125.00
B Lee b Caddick 20 45 3 0 44.44
J N Gillespie b Gough 9 14 2 0 64.29
G D McGrath not out 0 1 0 0 0.00
Extras (lb 9, w 1, nb 23) 33
Total All Out (101.1 overs @ 3.96 rpo) 401


Australia 2nd Innings (target 14) R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden not out 6 8 0 0 75.00
M J Slater c Butcher b Caddick 4 5 1 0 80.00
R T Ponting lbw b Gough 4 3 0 0 133.33
M E Waugh not out 0 3 0 0 0.00
S R Waugh*
D R Martyn
A C Gilchrist†
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras 0
Total 2 wickets (3.1 overs @ 4.42 rpo) 14


Third Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater b Gough 15 49 1 0 30.61
M L Hayden lbw b Tudor 33 42 7 0 78.57
R T Ponting c †Stewart b Gough 14 20 3 0 70.00
M E Waugh c Atherton b Tudor 15 44 3 0 34.09
S R Waugh* c Atherton b Caddick 13 30 2 0 43.33
D R Martyn c †Stewart b Caddick 4 8 1 0 50.00
A C Gilchrist† c Atherton b Tudor 54 59 10 0 91.53
S K Warne lbw b Caddick 0 2 0 0 0.00
B Lee c Butcher b Tudor 4 14 0 0 28.57
J N Gillespie not out 27 62 4 0 43.55
G D McGrath c Butcher b Tudor 2 4 0 0 50.00
Extras (lb 3, w 1, nb 5) 9
Total All Out (54.5 overs @ 3.47 rpo) 190

Australia 2nd Innings (target 158) R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden lbw b Tudor 42 51 7 0 82.35
M J Slater c Trescothick b Caddick 12 17 2 0 70.59
R T Ponting c †Stewart b Croft 17 31 3 0 54.84
M E Waugh not out 42 45 7 0 93.33
S R Waugh* retired hurt 1 1 0 0 100.00
D R Martyn not out 33 37 6 0 89.19
A C Gilchrist†
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (lb 4, nb 7) 11
Total 3 wickets (29.2 overs @ 5.39 rpo) 158


Fourth Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M J Slater lbw b Caddick 21 40 2 0 52.50
M L Hayden lbw b Caddick 15 37 1 0 40.54
R T Ponting c †Stewart b Tudor 144 154 20 3 93.51
M E Waugh c Ramprakash b Caddick 72 147 9 0 48.98
D R Martyn c †Stewart b Gough 118 135 17 0 87.41
S M Katich b Gough 15 42 3 0 35.71
A C Gilchrist*† c Trescothick b Gough 19 20 4 0 95.00
S K Warne c †Stewart b Gough 0 8 0 0 0.00
B Lee c Ramprakash b Mullally 0 4 0 0 0.00
J N Gillespie c Atherton b Gough 5 17 1 0 29.41
G D McGrath not out 8 6 2 0 133.33
Extras (b 5, lb 15, w 1, nb 9) 30
Total All Out (100.1 overs @ 4.46 rpo) 447


Australia 2nd Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden c †Stewart b Mullally 35 99 6 0 35.35
M J Slater b Gough 16 23 2 0 69.57
R T Ponting lbw b Gough 72 72 10 1 100.00
M E Waugh not out 24 28 3 0 85.71
D R Martyn lbw b Caddick 6 20 1 0 30.00
S M Katich not out 0 6 0 0 0.00
A C Gilchrist*†
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (b 5, lb 7, nb 11) 23
Total 4 wickets declared (39.3 overs @ 4.46 rpo) 176

Fifth Test
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
M L Hayden c Trescothick b Tufnell 68 125 9 0 54.40
J L Langer retired hurt 102 186 12 1 54.84
R T Ponting c Atherton b Ormond 62 102 8 0 60.78
M E Waugh b Gough 120 176 16 2 68.18
S R Waugh* not out 157 256 21 1 61.33
A C Gilchrist† c Ramprakash b Afzaal 25 32 2 1 78.13
D R Martyn not out 64 54 10 0 118.52
B Lee
S K Warne
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (b 10, lb 13, w 1, nb 19) 43
Total 4 wickets declared (152.0 overs @ 4.22 rpo) 641

England lost by an innings after following on so Langer never had to bat again after copping a bad hit on helmet in first innings.

First Test of next Aussie summer in Brisbane
Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
J L Langer c Vettori b McMillan 104 231 13 0 45.02
M L Hayden c Richardson b Cairns 136 195 20 2 69.74
R T Ponting c Vettori b Cairns 5 7 0 0 71.43
M E Waugh lbw b Astle 0 5 0 0 0.00
S R Waugh* c †Parore b McMillan 3 24 0 0 12.50
D R Martyn c Vettori b McMillan 4 10 0 0 40.00
A C Gilchrist† c sub b Cairns 118 158 17 1 74.68
S K Warne c Sinclair b Cairns 22 40 2 0 55.00
B Lee c †Parore b Cairns 61 93 9 1 65.59
J N Gillespie not out 20 31 3 0 64.52
G D McGrath
Extras (lb 4, w 1, nb 8) 13
Total 9 wickets declared (131.0 overs @ 3.71 rpo) 486

Australia 2nd Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
A C Gilchrist† b Cairns 20 16 3 0 125.00
M L Hayden run out 13 15 1 0 86.67
R T Ponting not out 32 29 2 1 110.34
J L Langer not out 18 25 1 0 72.00
S R Waugh*
D R Martyn
M E Waugh
S K Warne
B Lee
J N Gillespie
G D McGrath
Extras (nb 1) 1
Total 2 wickets declared (14.0 overs @ 6.00 rpo) 84

As we can see now Ponting was already batting no .3 in England. Langer was not playing in that side until final Test when Slater got dropped and Ponting did not really make any decent innings until the fourth Test. The one before Langer came back into the Test side.

Actually just looked up a year earlier and can see in 1999-2000 summer in Australia Langer was batting number 3 and Ponting number 6.
Here is one where Langer made a double ton at SCG and Ponting a century at no.6 spot.

Australia 1st Innings R BF 4s 6s SR
G S Blewett b B K Venkatesh Prasad 19 54 0 0 35.19
M J Slater c †M S K Prasad b Srinath 1 11 0 0 9.09
J L Langer c B K Venkatesh Prasad b Tendulkar 223 355 30 0 62.82
M E Waugh b Ganguly 32 70 5 1 45.71
S R Waugh* lbw b Srinath 57 124 9 0 45.97
R T Ponting not out 141 183 17 1 77.05
A C Gilchrist† not out 45 56 5 0 80.36
S K Warne
D W Fleming
B Lee
G D McGrath
Extras (b 2, lb 21, nb 11) 34
Total 5 wickets declared (140.2 overs @ 3.93 rpo) 552

Just on a sidenote - how good was it having Gilchrist coming in at number 7

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Think you may have your sense of what exactly happened a bit out of whack there. Langer from what I recall was not in side at the time. He was on tour and Slater from memory was having personal issues and form issues and was deemed best to leave him out of side.

Langer had been the No.3 for quite some time before that tour. He was No.3 on the previous tour when we lost in India.

Sure, he wasn't in the side at the start of the 2001 Ashes. But, by the end of that series, Langer replaced Slater as opener and Ponting was promoted to No.3. That was my point – that we made a decision about the top order and implemented it to improve the side.

How is that 'rewriting history'?

If you're going to accuse someone of that, you better be able to back it up.

Ponting was always destined to be a number 3. He was a natural counter attacker and ideal for it. Langer himself had not really defined a specific role but was used at number 3 at times before and after Ponting got tried their too.

Now who's rewriting history?

Langer played 61 innings at No.3. That's plenty.

He batted at No.3 throughout the 16-match winning streak in 1999-2001 and was the leading run-scorer.

How can you say that wasn't a 'specific role'?

That time he opened in England I think was very first time and simply because Slater got dropped.

Don't act as though it happened by accident.

It was part of a conscious decision to rejig the top order.

Similar to what should happen with the the current line-up.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Not to mention that Ponting had been a number 3 for most of his first class career, had batted at #3 at pretty much every level he played an openly sought to bat at #3 for the test side once Boone retired.

He did his time at #6, like most players should and then moved.

If Smith wants to bat 3, he will bat there. He hasn't stated his position either way at this point, but given he was Captain for the last 3 tests - he certainly had the choice to bat 3 and didn't.

If Smith came out publicly and stated he wants to bat 3, there isn't a person in Australian cricket who would deny him. I imagine Watto would be pretty pleased about it too!

Why does a player have to 'come out publicly' and say it?

There's no reason Smith couldn't bat at No.3 and if/when we finally bite the bullet and move Watson, he looms as the best alternative.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Nice.
Just highlighting some people's re-writing of history does not fit with actual reality.
A few scoreboards making it clear.
I know people's awareness is not all the same.
Just saying...

Are you still hurting?

 

[bird_man]

Why move Smith when he has been performing very well at 4? Forget the batting lineup, it doesn't matter if we have Watson at 3 or 6, he is still the best option as an All rounder that we have, atleast until after the ashes.

Ricky Ponting was doing very well at 6 before he got promoted to 3, should we have left him there? It wouldn't be a first to promote a player in good form up the batting order. I'd much prefer we do it that when than throwing new players to the wolves.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

Ricky Ponting was doing very well at 6 before he got promoted to 3, should we have left him there? It wouldn't be a first to promote a player in good form up the batting order. I'd much prefer we do it that when than throwing new players to the wolves.

IMO we should have done this with Clarke years ago. However I really like Smith at number 4, I think it suits the way he plays.Also I'm not sure how I would feel about him essentially being an opener after an early wicket loss. Not sure how he would play Anderson, Steyn,Boult or Phillander with a new rock.

 

[PaddyO]

Langer had been the No.3 for quite some time before that tour. He was No.3 on the previous tour when we lost in India.

Sure, he wasn't in the side at the start of the 2001 Ashes. But, by the end of that series, Langer replaced Slater as opener and Ponting was promoted to No.3. That was my point – that we made a decision about the top order and implemented it to improve the side.

How is that 'rewriting history'?

If you're going to accuse someone of that, you better be able to back it up.

Now who's rewriting history?

Langer played 61 innings at No.3. That's plenty.

He batted at No.3 throughout the 16-match winning streak in 1999-2001 and was the leading run-scorer.

How can you say that wasn't a 'specific role'?

Don't act as though it happened by accident.

It was part of a conscious decision to rejig the top order.

Similar to what should happen with the the current line-up.

Give it a rest FFS

 

[The Passenger]

Watson gets dropped for Peter Handscomb and Marsh comes in for Joe Burns, easy.

Handscomb will get his shot if he keeps batting like he is. But half a season is not performing for long enough to do so.