What happens to the State Leagues with the return of the Reserves?

[madmug]

I agree, have reserves pulls too many players from local leagues with very little benefit. I think making it U19s is the best outcome because it means the kids jump from 19s to senior football should be fairly smooth for any 19-20yo, where players can still be very raw and lean and not ready for senior football when they finish u18s. Additionally under the model i propose with with the TAC cup teams merging with VFL there would be nothing stopping a player who is ready stepping straight into senior footy which would fast track the development and have them more ready to play AFL if they are drafted.

I just wonder if many on here understand how footy clubs, not smothered in cash by the AFL, live & survive. It must be great sitting at the 'G' & knowing how the other half live. NOT!

The system was always tribal. Kids come through juniors into U18/19s, then ressies & seniors. Others come from lower leagues to try to improve. The odd recruit from other clubs or leagues was always exciting. Those players also have friends & families which often become part of the club & volunteer their help. Them & supporters become a social entity. The clubs needs all those people to generate players, support & money from social activities. This still applies to State league clubs. Whether they have pokies or not.

As an example, the dumb AFL Tasmania decided to make ressies into an extended youth program. Older players not in seniors were forced out.

The result was a lot of good club people were lost to the clubs. The kids had less experience to learn from. It affected the viability of clubs. Part of the problem with the 2 clubs recently lost to the TSL. Just DUMB. Having to bring in some kids not ready for senior footy because of injuries did no one any good. Clubs lose kids that way & indeed whole families.

Sure, you don't want the ressies full of 30 YO guys. They weren't at that stage anyway.

A health senior club needs adult players to survive & have a purpose. Not just churn out more kids who will never play in the AFL.. Not just aspiring kids with no experience & few adults to learn off & nowhere to go when the turn 18 or 19.

They call it community football for a reason.

That was always a strength of Australian football.

Some people have lost site of the game itself. Its health, its purpose, its community value.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

IF we got to an AFL reserves league, can Box Hill, Sandringham, Springvale and Preston survive without their AFL affiliations? Anything is possible if Coburg and Frankston are still alive. With Williamstown, Port Melbourne and Werribee thats a 9 team comp there.

There is probably too many VFL teams based in the west of Melbourne so either Willy or Werribee would need to be sacrificed but merging the TAC with VFL in a stand alone comp would see an 11 team 2nd tier competition, which would create a real pathway for kids and mature aged players to prove there worth to AFL clubs or just enjoy playing in an elite level competition.

Western Tigers (merger of Western Jets & Werribee) given the growth corridor and population of the west is mostly based out Werribee way i think it is best to keep them alive.
Calder Tigers (merger of Calder & Coburg)
Northern Bullants (merger of Preston & Northern Knights)
Oakleigh merge with Port Melbourne - Probably the hardest alignment geographically but enough will would make it work.
Box Hill & Eastern Rangers merge.
Ballarat Rebels
I also see with the reduce costs of the competition the Bendigo Pioneers, Gipsland Power, Bushrangers, Dandenong Stingrays, Geelong Falcons would all be able field senior sides.

The important thing with this is that the AFL currently fund 100% of the TAC Cup competition this funding would still be in place and the senior teams would be able to piggy back off this funding whilst sharing and utilising facilities & Coaching etc which would give the clubs a far more sustainable future than is currently in place.

 

[StCicatriz]

Big loser here will be the WAFC, east Perth and Peel

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I just wonder if many on here understand how footy clubs, not smothered in cash by the AFL, live & survive. It must be great sitting at the 'G' & knowing how the other half live. NOT!

The system was always tribal. Kids come through juniors into U18/19s, then ressies & seniors. Others come from lower leagues to try to improve. The odd recruit from other clubs or leagues was always exciting. Those players also have friends & families which often become part of the club & volunteer their help. Them & supporters become a social entity. The clubs needs all those people to generate players, support & money from social activities. This still applies to State league clubs. Whether they have pokies or not.

As an example, the dumb AFL Tasmania decided to make ressies into an extended youth program. Older players not in seniors were forced out.

The result was a lot of good club people were lost to the clubs. The kids had less experience to learn from. It affected the viability of clubs. Part of the problem with the 2 clubs recently lost to the TSL. Just DUMB. Having to bring in some kids not ready for senior footy because of injuries did no one any good. Clubs lose kids that way & indeed whole families.

Sure, you don't want the ressies full of 30 YO guys. They weren't at that stage anyway.

A health senior club needs adult players to survive & have a purpose. Not just churn out more kids who will never play in the AFL.. Not just aspiring kids with no experience & few adults to learn off & nowhere to go when the turn 18 or 19.

They call it community football for a reason.

That was always a strength of Australian football.

Some people have lost site of the game itself. Its health, its purpose, its community value.

I think that is especially relevant in somewhere like Tasmania where the gap between TFL and the next level of footy would be so great, out of interest how does the standard of the TFL compare to some of the local competitions in Victoria like Golbourn Valley, Essendon District etc.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Big loser here will be the WAFC, east Perth and Peel

How so?

 

[StCicatriz]

How so?

East Perth and peel are now the two richest WAFL clubs posting > 400k p.a. in profit due to the alignment

Reserves kill that arrangement

In regards to the WAFC the next logical conclusion is for the AFL to buy back the licences.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

East Perth and peel are now the two richest WAFL clubs posting > 400k p.a. in profit due to the alignment

Reserves kill that arrangement

In regards to the WAFC the next logical conclusion is for the AFL to buy back the licences.

The profit arises from them not having to pay for coaching staff and to recruit players which all the other clubs have to. So yes they would lose that but who gives a toss. It is fake profit as they will have to return to paying real costs that all footy clubs have to.

In regards to buying the licenses back well that will be a costly exercise for the AFL, maybe near 100 million dollars or more??
What benefit would that be?
As there has been a 10 year funding model just signed with the WAFC that is not happening anytime in the near future.

 

[chazwazza]

I just wonder if many on here understand how footy clubs, not smothered in cash by the AFL, live & survive. It must be great sitting at the 'G' & knowing how the other half live. NOT!

The system was always tribal. Kids come through juniors into U18/19s, then ressies & seniors. Others come from lower leagues to try to improve. The odd recruit from other clubs or leagues was always exciting. Those players also have friends & families which often become part of the club & volunteer their help. Them & supporters become a social entity. The clubs needs all those people to generate players, support & money from social activities. This still applies to State league clubs. Whether they have pokies or not.

As an example, the dumb AFL Tasmania decided to make ressies into an extended youth program. Older players not in seniors were forced out.

The result was a lot of good club people were lost to the clubs. The kids had less experience to learn from. It affected the viability of clubs. Part of the problem with the 2 clubs recently lost to the TSL. Just DUMB. Having to bring in some kids not ready for senior footy because of injuries did no one any good. Clubs lose kids that way & indeed whole families.

Sure, you don't want the ressies full of 30 YO guys. They weren't at that stage anyway.

A health senior club needs adult players to survive & have a purpose. Not just churn out more kids who will never play in the AFL.. Not just aspiring kids with no experience & few adults to learn off & nowhere to go when the turn 18 or 19.

They call it community football for a reason.

That was always a strength of Australian football.

Some people have lost site of the game itself. Its health, its purpose, its community value.

Well said. 100% spot on.

 

[StCicatriz]

The profit arises from them not having to pay for coaching staff and to recruit players which all the other clubs have to. So yes they would lose that but who gives a toss. It is fake profit as they will have to return to paying real costs that all footy clubs have to.

In regards to buying the licenses back well that will be a costly exercise for the AFL, maybe near 100 million dollars or more??
What benefit would that be?
As there has been a 10 year funding model just signed with the WAFC that is not happening anytime in the near future.

They still lose 400k a year. How's that not a loss?

The licence purchase could be done over a period of time.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

There is probably too many VFL teams based in the west of Melbourne so either Willy or Werribee would need to be sacrificed but merging the TAC with VFL in a stand alone comp would see an 11 team 2nd tier competition, which would create a real pathway for kids and mature aged players to prove there worth to AFL clubs or just enjoy playing in an elite level competition.

Western Tigers (merger of Western Jets & Werribee) given the growth corridor and population of the west is mostly based out Werribee way i think it is best to keep them alive.
Calder Tigers (merger of Calder & Coburg)
Northern Bullants (merger of Preston & Northern Knights)
Oakleigh merge with Port Melbourne - Probably the hardest alignment geographically but enough will would make it work.
Box Hill & Eastern Rangers merge.
Ballarat Rebels
I also see with the reduce costs of the competition the Bendigo Pioneers, Gipsland Power, Bushrangers, Dandenong Stingrays, Geelong Falcons would all be able field senior sides.

The important thing with this is that the AFL currently fund 100% of the TAC Cup competition this funding would still be in place and the senior teams would be able to piggy back off this funding whilst sharing and utilising facilities & Coaching etc which would give the clubs a far more sustainable future than is currently in place.

AFL Vic have long wanted an U23 league and I suspect they'll form it with some sort of expansion of the TAC Cup to achieve this.

Imagine VFL clubs will be given the option to become U23 clubs. Otherwise they'll fold or go into local footy.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

They still lose 400k a year. How's that not a loss?

The licence purchase could be done over a period of time.

I couldn't give a rats how much money East Perth and Peel lose. They broke ranks and aligned so not much sympathy for them if thats what happens. For now they should enjoy their profits.

Maybe the WAFC could ask the licence sale to be paid in 14 days as the original licence was!!! lol

 

[StCicatriz]

I couldn't give a rats how much money East Perth and Peel lose. They broke ranks and aligned so not much sympathy for them if thats what happens. For now they should enjoy their profits.

Maybe the WAFC could ask the licence sale to be paid in 14 days as the original licence was!!! lol

Couldn't agree more on that point

 

[chiwigi]

I just wonder if many on here understand how footy clubs, not smothered in cash by the AFL, live & survive. It must be great sitting at the 'G' & knowing how the other half live. NOT!

The system was always tribal. Kids come through juniors into U18/19s, then ressies & seniors. Others come from lower leagues to try to improve. The odd recruit from other clubs or leagues was always exciting. Those players also have friends & families which often become part of the club & volunteer their help. Them & supporters become a social entity. The clubs needs all those people to generate players, support & money from social activities. This still applies to State league clubs. Whether they have pokies or not.

As an example, the dumb AFL Tasmania decided to make ressies into an extended youth program. Older players not in seniors were forced out.

The result was a lot of good club people were lost to the clubs. The kids had less experience to learn from. It affected the viability of clubs. Part of the problem with the 2 clubs recently lost to the TSL. Just DUMB. Having to bring in some kids not ready for senior footy because of injuries did no one any good. Clubs lose kids that way & indeed whole families.

Sure, you don't want the ressies full of 30 YO guys. They weren't at that stage anyway.

A health senior club needs adult players to survive & have a purpose. Not just churn out more kids who will never play in the AFL.. Not just aspiring kids with no experience & few adults to learn off & nowhere to go when the turn 18 or 19.

They call it community football for a reason.

That was always a strength of Australian football.

Some people have lost site of the game itself. Its health, its purpose, its community value.

WRT SA

The most successful state level team this millennium has been Central Districts who managed their success by having a shitload of pokie machines in the poorest area of Adelaide and using the money gained on ex-AFL Victorian imports.

The other two successful clubs (Norwood and Sturt) are two silvertail clubs who need to do very little in terms of local development. Sturts based on getting players back from Port after the team entered as a reserves team and the harsh restrictions.

In fact clubs that would be more successful if given a chance at the higher level are stymied by the closed shop!

This has resulted in the best players playing country football etc. for a shit load more money.

In fact, aboriginal and community programs for the local and less fortunate are coming from the AFL clubs.

 

[madmug]

I think that is especially relevant in somewhere like Tasmania where the gap between TFL and the next level of footy would be so great, out of interest how does the standard of the TFL compare to some of the local competitions in Victoria like Golbourn Valley, Essendon District etc.

We'll find out today how the TSL will be or not be as Gil & his 'minders' visit the deep south land today.

Last years North Launceston coach Tom Crouch (son of ex Geelong champion Paul Couch) said the TSL was a better standard than the Geelong League.

So you can get a better idea from that than I could speculate.

Thing is the Melbourne Metro & regional/country leagues get easier access to ex Tac cup/VFL/AFL players & coaches than the TSL does now. That wasn't always so.

That access is part of what could revive the TSL. Yes it needs some better equity with finances, but it needs to be part of the player, coach & umpire pathway we've had shoed down out throat. It it exists, then its up to the AFL to support it, like every other state. Local footy structures need a shake up to.

In the end its an AFL competition. They can make it or break it.

So after a gutful of crayfish, Atlantic salmon & a gallon or two of Pinot Noir, McLachlin & Hodgman can duke it out. The meeting with local footy people will just be for them to say hi, sit down, shut up & listen to the talking head with the suit & tie.

 

[chazwazza]

WRT SA

The most successful state level team this millennium has been Central Districts who managed their success by having a shitload of pokie machines in the poorest area of Adelaide and using the money gained on ex-AFL Victorian imports.

The other two successful clubs (Norwood and Sturt) are two silvertail clubs who need to do very little in terms of local development. Sturts based on getting players back from Port after the team entered as a reserves team and the harsh restrictions.

In fact clubs that would be more successful if given a chance at the higher level are stymied by the closed shop!

This has resulted in the best players playing country football etc. for a shit load more money.

In fact, aboriginal and community programs for the local and less fortunate are coming from the AFL clubs.

So you have a pot shot at CD for having pokies, yet PAFC take over Port Magpies on the promise that they won’t be turned into an AFL Reserves team yet 3 years later that promise is discarded, all so the PAFC can get its hands on the Port Magpies pub and POKIES at the Prince of Wales, all the while Port are the only AFL club in SA that has pokies. Do you know what hypocrite means? Do you also deny Hawthorn their strong reliance on pokies just because they’ve been very successful? My god, the stupidity of that accusation is baffling.

Onto Sturt and Norwood.
“Silver tail” clubs? They both run off a sniff of an oily rag and almost totally dependent on volunteers, Sturt would struggle to have 5 people employed in full time roles, maybe the same amount part time and the extreme bulk are volunteers.
Both clubs in recent years have done very well in developing their zones, recruiting outside of their zones and developing young players for the draft. Sturt had 7 players drafted last year, a few years ago Norwood had a similar number drafted in a single year.
Sturt have had 2 regular players recruited from Port Magpies when they became a Power Reserves.
2.
Kirkwood who has developed into a gun and Beard who has retired.
AGAIN.......2. In that time (end of 2013 season), we’ve had a lot more players leave in the draft, few to return.
Again, your point lacks little validity and is baffling in its stupidity. Do you really want to swap Lienert, Hombsch and Wingard for the blokes we got from Port Magpies?
I’ll ring Sturt now and we’ll get the deal done.

I’m assuming this comment-

“In fact clubs that would be more successful if given a chance at the higher level are stymied by the closed shop!”

is somehow referring to PAFC. Are you suggesting that not being bound to a SANFL salary cap, not being forced to post a minimum $50k profit each year for threat of salary cap sanctions, having full access to a national draft that SANFL clubs don’t have and having a team mostly made up of full time professional footballers is not enough of a leg up for your Power Reserves team and somehow it’s holding you back from being better and is somehow a “closed shop”? Is this what you’re trying to insinuate?

Is it the SANFL’s fault that mature players are offered more money to play in country leagues and commit less time to playing football and hence out of recruiters sphere of vision? It’s one of the problems with Australian Football at the moment, not that I’m going to begrudge a footballer good money for playing the game he loves while juggling full time work and family.
I’m sure you wouldn’t begrudge a Port player that opportunity.

Apologies to other supporters from other states to have to hear this SA bitching but it’s indicative of the problems in this State regarding football and of the same problem on a national scale in football as a whole.
There’s no way known I’m going to let so many ill founded paranoid thought farts that are simply untrue to go unchallenged.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

AFL Vic have long wanted an U23 league and I suspect they'll form it with some sort of expansion of the TAC Cup to achieve this.

Imagine VFL clubs will be given the option to become U23 clubs. Otherwise they'll fold or go into local footy.

Isnt that effectively what the VFL reserves was, and that just got shelved. I just dont see the AFL having any desire to add a junior competition, especially u23 because if you consider Josh Kelly, Patrick Cripps, Zach Merrett etc etc are all u23 it really serves no purpose to them.

 

[Papa G]

Ken Farmer medalist in premiership year and r/u KF medalist in other premiership year, plus 2 time Magarey Medalist/Captain aren't just a couple so so players. They were your best players. A direct Benefit from the One Club situation you whinge about so much about. You got 2 flags because of it. They never wanted to leave Port but were forced to. Fair enough, they are the rules.

The Hombsch/Wingard/Lienart example is pretty disingenuous. Sturt, as a feeder club in a feeder league was always just a stepping stone to bigger and better things.

 

[chazwazza]

Ken Farmer medalist in premiership year and r/u KF medalist in other premiership year, plus 2 time Magarey Medalist/Captain aren't just a couple so so players. They were your best players. A direct Benefit from the One Club situation you whinge about so much about. You got 2 flags because of it. They never wanted to leave Port but were forced to. Fair enough, they are the rules.

The Hombsch/Wingard/Lienart example is pretty disingenuous. Sturt, as a feeder club in a feeder league was always just a stepping stone to bigger and better things.

I don’t whinge about it, I only point it out when Port supporters like you don’t want to face the facts as I did with Prison Bars’ claim about pokies. To be honest I find the whole One Club thing funny.
And hey Papa McNuggets, if you think two players make a premiership team then you’re free to think that.
So when are we finalising the trade deal?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

 

[fumbler]

They just haven't told anyone it is happening.

 

[Still Crowing]

They just haven't told anyone it is happening.

They’re probably happy to have it bubble away under the surface as a ‘go to’ they can use on slow news days to keep the AFL in the conversation. Nothing much happening ( footy wise) during Spring Racing Carnival? Quick make some noise about reviving the National Reserves Comp.. that’ll give em something to talk about!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Heardy_101]

Funny how since the news broke, it's gone quiet

Oh I know why - Because that flog Damien Barrett opened his mouth again and people fell for it

"IF....I open my mouth.. "

"THEN people will be dumb enough to believe me"

Guys a flog, and he trolled us all. Again.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

They just haven't told anyone it is happening.

Given it’s hugely unlikely by any logical measure, I’m inclined to believe AFL Victoria here.

 

[Damon_3388]

Won’t be curtain raisers in Melbourne as the G and Docklands can’t handle the traffic, they already have 40-50 games each.

Could play at Punt Rd for the G if Richmond are open to it. Docklands, who knows.

Punt Rd, Holden Centre, Ikon Park, Western Oval, Junction Oval, Arden St and (when upgraded) Moorabbin are all fairly near-city venues that can easily be used for a state-league competition for early afteroon/early evening curtain raisers (pretty sure this happens a fair bit already with some of the VFL affiliates), then a short trip into the city to watch the AFL side play.

 

[Damon_3388]

Is there any credible talk of a return to the reserves? Or just bigfooty threads?

Logistically it would take a few years to organise and implement effectively you'd think.

Then again, AFLW seemed to pop up from seemingly nowhere pretty quickly, so who knows.