Roast What has happened to our list?

[Mr Magic]

Cockatoo went before our pick and despite a few highlights has proven **** all so far. Compare that to the two guys we wanted in Duggan and Ellis and they are outperforming him considerably. Although it is too early to make any serious judgements, just merely pointing out that Cockatoo isn't worth the hype at present.

Garlett isn't a difference maker and whilst a significant upgrade on our current ready made options, he is not a long term option and we should be targeting players in the draft with Micheal Walters potential.

For what's its worth I think Jayden Short has a very good chance of being our option long term.

At the moment Duggan>Cockatoo> Ellis.


I wouldn't worry for Ellis as hasn't really started yet but that is where they are at atm IMO

 

[Lsta062]

Aboriginal small forwards is EXACTLY what we lack. So many heavily-scoring teams have them - like Hawthorn, North Melbourne and Adelaide. They are fast and are able to pick the ball right off the floor quickly and just snap it in. Not saying other players cannot do this, but I noticed this particularly among the aboriginal small forwards.

Should have picked one up in the off-season this year

 

[TigerImposter]

Cockatoo went before our pick and despite a few highlights has proven **** all so far. Compare that to the two guys we wanted in Duggan and Ellis and they are outperforming him considerably. Although it is too early to make any serious judgements, just merely pointing out that Cockatoo isn't worth the hype at present.

Garlett isn't a difference maker and whilst a significant upgrade on our current ready made options, he is not a long term option and we should be targeting players in the draft with Micheal Walters potential.

For what's its worth I think Jayden Short has a very good chance of being our option long term.

Sorry about Cocky yeah I forgot cats had the earlier pick, but he's looking like a gun
Still we haven't chased that type for years

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

Aboriginal small forwards is EXACTLY what we lack. So many heavily-scoring teams have them - like Hawthorn, North Melbourne and Adelaide. They are fast and are able to pick the ball right off the floor quickly and just snap it in. Not saying other players cannot do this, but I noticed this particularly among the aboriginal small forwards.

Should have picked one up in the off-season this year

While I agree that aboriginals are very good at doing that, what you've just said also describes Short and to a lesser extent Butler.

 

[Mr Magic]

While I agree that aboriginals are very good at doing that, what you've just said describes also Short and to a lesser extent Butler.

Also have to remember Cotchin and Edwards have to rest somewhere not to mention Dusty at some point as well as others.

A small forward is the last position we need IMO.

Our back line, inside mids particularly bigger body type, then rucks and KPP are far more critical IMO.

Once we get a proper inside mid set-up functioning it will be easier to see where we lack in supporting areas

 

[no orange peeler]

Club knows our list isnt good enough hence the reason they went to draft and not the trade table

 

[wegetpumped]

Club knows our list isnt good enough hence the reason they went to draft and not the trade table

They did go to the trade table just no one wanted to come apart from the cripple. So we were forced to draft.

 

[Lsta062]

While I agree that aboriginals are very good at doing that, what you've just said also describes Short and to a lesser extent Butler.

I honestly feel as though they nailed this year's draft. Those boys just do not go missing in the 2s. They fight it out until the end

 

[Bruce Monteath]

Looking at the way the Dogs, GWS, the Saints and even Melbourne have improved their list it's clear we are in for another rebuild, preferably stocked with some top five talent. We need a rebuild in the box too.

 

[wegetpumped]

Looking at the way the Dogs, GWS, the Saints and even Melbourne have improved their list it's clear we are in for another rebuild, preferably stocked with some top five talent. We need a rebuild in the box too.

No way of that happening to many of this dudes at the club

 

[TheProwler]

Poor ecuiting of same types of players. No X factor just meh factor.

Lids & maybe Jack are the only ones with any X factor on our entire list.

Bunker down for next decade folks

 

[austyn08]

Club knows our list isnt good enough hence the reason they went to draft and not the trade table

Just need the club to realise FJ isnt good enough now.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

RFC List , doesn't include those yet to debut:
Defenders :
Talls : Elton, Chaplin, Rance
Mid Sized : Grimes, Batchellor, Dea
Small : Morris , Houli, newman
Back up at best , Hunt

Outside mids half forwards :\
Grigg, MCDonough , Lennon, McIntosh, Gordan , BEllis, CEllis, Lloyd, Newman ( can play this role )

Inside mids, defensive forwards when resting :
Arnott, Miles, Foley, Vlaustin, Conca, Thomas

3rd Tall Forwards, not necessarily lead up
Jack, Bean,

KPF
Astbury , Griffiths

Ruckman
Maric, Vickery, Hampson

Offensive weapons who play every week and wherever needed.
Martin, Cotchin , Edwards, Lids

IMO The side structure should be picked based on the form of the above players in their positions and obviously opposition dependent.

FB : Tall Defender, Tall Defender, Medium Sized
HBF : small Defender, Tall defender, Small Defender
C:Outside mid, Offensive weapon , outside mid
HFF : Offensive weapon , tall forward, outside mid
FF: 3rd tall, tall forward, inside mid

Ruck, inside mid, offensive weapon
Int : Ruck, inside mid, offensive weapon
Sub : outside mid

ATM, time to simplify it, you have a role and you fight for it and perform for it or VFL.:
Chaplin Elton Batchelor
Morris Rance Houli
Bellis Cotchin McIntosh
Lids Griff Newman
Jack Astvbury Vlaustin

Ivan , Sedwards, Miles
Int : Hampson , Arnot, Dustin
Sub : Grigg

 

[Mr Magic]

RFC List , doesn't include those yet to debut:
Defenders :
Talls : Elton, Chaplin, Rance
Mid Sized : Grimes, Batchellor, Dea
Small : Morris , Houli, newman
Back up at best , Hunt

Outside mids half forwards :\
Grigg, MCDonough , Lennon, McIntosh, Gordan , BEllis, CEllis, Lloyd, Newman ( can play this role )

Inside mids, defensive forwards when resting :
Arnott, Miles, Foley, Vlaustin, Conca, Thomas

3rd Tall Forwards, not necessarily lead up
Jack, Bean,

KPF
Astbury , Griffiths

Ruckman
Maric, Vickery, Hampson

Offensive weapons who play every week and wherever needed.
Martin, Cotchin , Edwards, Lids

IMO The side structure should be picked based on the form of the above players in their positions and obviously opposition dependent.

FB : Tall Defender, Tall Defender, Medium Sized
HBF : small Defender, Tall defender, Small Defender
C:Outside mid, Offensive weapon , outside mid
HFF : Offensive weapon , tall forward, outside mid
FF: 3rd tall, tall forward, inside mid

Ruck, inside mid, offensive weapon
Int : Ruck, inside mid, offensive weapon
Sub : outside mid

ATM, time to simplify it, you have a role and you fight for it and perform for it or VFL.:
Chaplin Elton Batchelor
Morris Rance Houli
Bellis Cotchin McIntosh
Lids Griff Newman
Jack Astvbury Vlaustin

Ivan , Sedwards, Miles
Int : Hampson , Arnot, Dustin
Sub : Grigg

Lloyd is not a outside mid/half forward


BTW your side structure is BS IMO.

You structure your side based on the players you have and their abilities/form etc not some outside/inside ideology mantra!

I can't agree with your list of defensive forwards either. In fact I do not even believe in the position. If a forward cannot defend he gets sacked!

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Lloyd is not a outside mid/half forward


BTW your side structure is BS IMO.

You structure your side based on the players you have and their abilities/form etc not some outside/inside ideology mantra!

I can't agree with your list of defensive forwards either. In fact I do not even believe in the position. If a forward cannot defend he gets sacked!

We disagree on Llyod , your veiws on playing players despite their deeficiencies is why we have a over abundance of players playing outside of their comfort zone and soft ***** playing as inside mids , so we disagree with that as well .
Actually knowing you don't share my view certain doesn't have me questioning my knowledge .

 

[Mr Magic]

We disagree on Llyod , your veiws on playing players despite their deeficiencies is why we have a over abundance of players playing outside of their comfort zone and soft ***** playing as inside mids , so we disagree with that as well .
Actually not agreeing with you magic sits alright with me .

First of all Lloyd is not a good enough mark to play half forward. To suggest Lloyd is anything other than a small forward that can drift up the ground is mind boggling!

He simply cannot be effective long term in the half forward position and has never been an effective half forward at the elite level for good reason. Like 1 + 1 = 2.

I never mentioned playing players despite their deficiencies so I do not know what the f... you are on about .

Tell me who are soft c....? and who are outside their comfort zones?

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

First of all Lloyd is not a good enough mark to play half forward.

He simply cannot be effective long term in the position. Like 1 + 1 = 2.

I never mentioned playing players despite their deficiencies so I do not know what the f... you are on about .

Tell me who are soft c....? and who are outside their comfort zones?

Crap on Lloyd he has shown plenty if good form as a high half forward .
Grigg , bellis , gordan playing inside is not good .

 

[Mr Magic]

Crap on Lloyd he has shown plenty if good form as a high half forward .
Grigg , bellis , gordan playing inside is not good .

Who said I said anything about Gordon playing inside?? Like WTF??

B Ellis might be able to be developed there as part of a rotation. Grigg was not useless shutting down Selwood but he has been a winger for some time.

I never said we should play these guys inside now!

So I do not know what you are on about!!!

As far as Lloyd goes, he can kick a long goal but he is not an effective half forward in a competitive match.

Ideally you play Lloyd deeper at the start unless you are clueless to utilise him more as a crumber in play relative to other player options.

Some one like Lids or Dusty are daylight ahead of Lloyd for a half forward position!

If we got Shiel we would not rest him at half forward for the same reason. Shiel would be rested in a pocket as well!

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Who said I said anything about Gordon playing inside?? Like WTF??

B Ellis might be able to be developed there as part of a rotation. Grigg was not useless shutting down Selwood but he has been a winger for some time.

I never said we should play these guys inside now!

So I do not know what you are on about!!!

As far as Lloyd goes, he can kick a long goal but he is not an effective half forward in a competitive match.

Ideally you play Lloyd deeper at the start unless you are clueless to utilise him more as a crumber in play relative to other player options.

Some one like Lids or Dusty are daylight ahead of Lloyd for a half forward position!

If we got Shiel we would not rest him at half forward for the same reason. Shiel would be rested in a pocket as well!

Grigg is useless and you will see I suggested distin lids SEdwards Cotchin rotating through the half forward line , inside the square and bench ? It's not the. 70's on ballers aren't out of the game when playing forward pocket .

 

[mopsy]

My problem isn't that we are looking at "VFL players" and mature recruits. But rather aren't delisting enough players or getting too many mature players, and as such aren't getting the youngsters coming through.

The guys that have been genuine finds for us the past few years we've developed largely ourselves. McIntosh...well that's about it really. I guess you could say Miles and maybe he's a mature recruit but really he was only 2 years in. Of course Vlaustin, Ellis etc have been good but anyone can nail a top 20 pick

The top clubs add 2-3 future best 22 youngsters a year. We add 1 and only 1 every year. Go back to Dusty or Conca, Ellis, Vlaustin Miles. Every year it's just one but we have more than one retire or drop in quality.

We can't succeed if we keep this up. We can still look at mature recruits, but need to get less, or call the experiment over and delist them quicker instead of keeping list cloggers on board

Pretty much agree with this.

 

[_RT_]

The biggest thing that happened to our list was having the attacking nature coached out of them. Have a look at the following stats regarding our progress both in attack and in defence:

2010 - For 246.238.1714 Against 339.314.2348
2011 - For 300.269.2069 Against 347.314.2396
2012 - For 311.303.2169 Against 284.239.1943
2013 - For 311.288.2154 Against 252.242.1754

As you can see there was a steady increase in our attacking prowess while our defensive unit progressively got better and better at restricting teams from scoring. 2013 we played an exciting attacking brand of footy that was good enough to beat both Grand Final sides rather comfortably, it was also good enough that when we played against sides that were strugglers we were able to put them to the sword and dismantle them with ease. Sure there were games where we were opened up and beaten heavily, but in the main we were able to dominate and our average winning margin of 42 points per game highlights that.

Move on to 2014 and Hardwicks desire to spread the load came into greater effect in our attacking game and we went from scoring over 310 goals for the season to 274 goals for the season. Defensively we were still fairly even only conceding an extra 30 points for the season. If you take out the 113 point win over the Giants in 2014 our average winning margin fell to only 22 points per game, even adding that game in and we still only averaged 29 points a game. So we went from being able to easily account for teams to more often than not getting involved in tight contests and IMO it has contributed to us being unable to step up and attack when the game needs us to take the game on like we were in 2013.

For mine it all comes back to Hardwicks desire to spread the load and be a more even team across the board in terms of goal kicking and also become more defensively accountable to stop the opposition getting a run on against us. Well the spread of goal kicking hasn't happened, Jack is still kicking more than 20% of our goals so the opposition still know that they need to sit on him when the ball comes into our F50. Even last year when we went on the streak to make finals there were no real beltings handed out. We beat the Saints by 44 points in round 15 only to struggle to put them away a couple of months later.

If Hardwick wants to save his coaching career it might be time for him to bite the bullet and admit that he pulled the wrong reign when deciding to spread the load. Perhaps it's time to go back to the 2013 game plan and simply let the players play an all out attacking game and let the results take care of themselves. Our backline has shown over the previous 2 seasons that it's more than capable of holding the best attacking teams to losing scores so if he really does back the players like he said in the presser on Saturday now is the time to show it.

 

[Sassafras]

Late night reading. This thread is eerily similar to the current ones.

 

[living_in_syd]

Blake acres i remember him the draft, i always liked his highlights. Shame we passed.