Strategy What is the Club building towards? 2015 onwards...

[mike123]

We've recruited Goodyear, Maynard, Abbott, Manteit who all give strong indications of playing HB yet you think Broomy will be the best option for the role. And that doesn't even give any consideration of improvement from Sinclair or Ramsay in the role.

Braydon Maynard is in the team.

Goodyear, terrible kick.

Sinclair and Ramsay, see above.

Mantieit and Abbott are both on the rookie list, odds are against them making it. That's not saying I'm completely ruling them out but I don't think they'll make it.

Broomy has that nice mix speed of speed ability to take the game on and his footskills and poise.

 

[MickGoPies]

I think Bucks has been working to regenerate the list through his entire tenure, just look at the turnover in the last 3 trade periods.

2012 - The club believed we were contenders and rightfully so! It was a great season with our nemesis Hawthorn and Sydney just too good.
2013 - The club again argued we were contenders and the elimination final loss to Port was a massive shock and internally translated to underachievement.
2014 - Midway through the season the club at 8-3 were talking up contention for at least top 4. As injuries cruelled us and the playing lists of Hawthorn, Sydney, Port Adelaide were on show it became all to apparent that the club needed to fast track the rebuild.

Clearly it is during 2014 where the club has changed its course from incremental rebuild on the run to focusing all out on this strategy. Finally, believing we don't have the list to contend with and that's ok with me. I'm very excited and buoyed by the future prospects the club has been assembling. I have no concerns about the timing coinciding with the inevitable rise of GWS and GCS as history shows if you can get in the top 4 with talent and decent game plan you are in with a good shot.

Back with a vengeance in 2016, patience in the meantime.
Go Pies!

 

[jackcass]

2012 - The club believed we were contenders and rightfully so! It was a great season with our nemesis Hawthorn and Sydney just too good.
2013 - The club again argued we were contenders and the elimination final loss to Port was a massive shock and internally translated to underachievement.
2014 - Midway through the season the club at 8-3 were talking up contention for at least top 4. As injuries cruelled us and the playing lists of Hawthorn, Sydney, Port Adelaide were on show it became all to apparent that the club needed to fast track the rebuild.

Clearly it is during 2014 where the club has changed its course from incremental rebuild on the run to focusing all out on this strategy. Finally, believing we don't have the list to contend with and that's ok with me. I'm very excited and buoyed by the future prospects the club has been assembling. I have no concerns about the timing coinciding with the inevitable rise of GWS and GCS as history shows if you can get in the top 4 with talent and decent game plan you are in with a good shot.

Back with a vengeance in 2016, patience in the meantime.
Go Pies!

You've missed my point, trade / draft turnover under Buckley has been consistent throughout his entire tenure as per below. Discrepancies reflect cat B rookies and changing list numbers due to expansion teams.

2011
Off: L Brown, McCarthy, Dick, Davis, Hunter, Reed, Gordon, Reilly, Perham, Bolton - 10
On: Paine, Gault, Witts, Clarke, Elliott, Yagmoor, Smith, Williams, Stubbs, Mooney, Hartley - 11

2012
Off: Buckley, Ceglar, Dawes, Rounds, Tarrant, Ugle, Wellingham, Wood, T Young, Cribbin, McNamara - 11
On: Broomhead, Grundy, Kennedy, Lynch, Ramsay, Russell, C Young, Martin, Dwyer, Oxley, Frost, Hudson, Richmond - 12

2013
Off: Johnson, Paine, Jolly, Shaw, Didak, Krakouer, Thomas, Russell, Hartley, Richmond - 10
On: White, Adams, Armstrong, Freeman, Karnezis, Langdon, Marsh, Scharenberg - 8

2014
Off: Lumumba, Beams, Clarke, Mooney, Yagmoor, Maxwell, Ball, Lynch, Martin, Hudson - 10
On: Crisp, Greenwood, Varcoe, DeGoey, Maynard, Goodyear, Moore, Cox, Manteit, Abbott - 10

 

[76woodenspooners]

Great job jackcass ... I've blatantly plagiarised your list below, bolding the players in the "off" list who are still playing AFL footy.

2011
Off: L Brown, McCarthy, Dick, Davis, Hunter, Reed, Gordon, Reilly, Perham, Bolton - 10
On: Paine, Gault, Witts, Clarke, Elliott, Yagmoor, Smith, Williams, Stubbs, Mooney, Hartley - 11

2012
Off: Buckley, Ceglar, Dawes, Rounds, Tarrant, Ugle, Wellingham, Wood, T Young, Cribbin, McNamara - 11
On: Broomhead, Grundy, Kennedy, Lynch, Ramsay, Russell, C Young, Martin, Dwyer, Oxley, Frost, Hudson, Richmond - 12

2013
Off: Johnson, Paine, Jolly, Shaw, Didak, Krakouer, Thomas, Russell, Hartley, Richmond - 10
On: White, Adams, Armstrong, Freeman, Karnezis, Langdon, Marsh, Scharenberg - 8

2014
Off: Lumumba, Beams, Clarke, Mooney, Yagmoor, Maxwell, Ball, Lynch, Martin, Hudson - 10
On: Crisp, Greenwood, Varcoe, DeGoey, Maynard, Goodyear, Moore, Cox, Manteit, Abbott - 10

 

[Laurie Holden]

Shaw, Lumumba and Beams would be start ups, but in all honesty would any of the rest improve our list?

 

[mike123]

Shaw, Lumumba and Beams would be start ups, but in all honesty would any of the rest improve our list?

Ceglar and Wellingham would.

 

[jackcass]

Great job jackcass ... I've blatantly plagiarised your list below, bolding the players in the "off" list who are still playing AFL footy.

2011
Off: L Brown, McCarthy, Dick, Davis, Hunter, Reed, Gordon, Reilly, Perham, Bolton - 10
On: Paine, Gault, Witts, Clarke, Elliott, Yagmoor, Smith, Williams, Stubbs, Mooney, Hartley - 11

2012
Off: Buckley, Ceglar, Dawes, Rounds, Tarrant, Ugle, Wellingham, Wood, T Young, Cribbin, McNamara - 11
On: Broomhead, Grundy, Kennedy, Lynch, Ramsay, Russell, C Young, Martin, Dwyer, Oxley, Frost, Hudson, Richmond - 12

2013
Off: Johnson, Paine, Jolly, Shaw, Didak, Krakouer, Thomas, Russell, Hartley, Richmond - 10
On: White, Adams, Armstrong, Freeman, Karnezis, Langdon, Marsh, Scharenberg - 8

2014
Off: Lumumba, Beams, Clarke, Mooney, Yagmoor, Maxwell, Ball, Lynch, Martin, Hudson - 10
On: Crisp, Greenwood, Varcoe, DeGoey, Maynard, Goodyear, Moore, Cox, Manteit, Abbott - 10

Beams and Shaw aside, I doubt those still playing elsewhere won't be surpassed by some of the guys we've added. You could make a case for some of the others but overall think we're better off.

In respect to MGPs post, there has been a slight shift in trading but that's due to high draft picks we've gained for Dawes, Wellingham, Thomas and Beams. And we didn't trade any high picks for players like we did with Krakouer, Elliott, And Jolly.

 

[Gambit78]

You've missed my point, trade / draft turnover under Buckley has been consistent throughout his entire tenure as per below. Discrepancies reflect cat B rookies and changing list numbers due to expansion teams.

2011
Off: L Brown, McCarthy, Dick, Davis, Hunter, Reed, Gordon, Reilly, Perham, Bolton - 10
On: Paine, Gault, Witts, Clarke, Elliott, Yagmoor, Smith, Williams, Stubbs, Mooney, Hartley - 11

2012
Off: Buckley, Ceglar, Dawes, Rounds, Tarrant, Ugle, Wellingham, Wood, T Young, Cribbin, McNamara - 11
On: Broomhead, Grundy, Kennedy, Lynch, Ramsay, Russell, C Young, Martin, Dwyer, Oxley, Frost, Hudson, Richmond - 12

2013
Off: Johnson, Paine, Jolly, Shaw, Didak, Krakouer, Thomas, Russell, Hartley, Richmond - 10
On: White, Adams, Armstrong, Freeman, Karnezis, Langdon, Marsh, Scharenberg - 8

2014
Off: Lumumba, Beams, Clarke, Mooney, Yagmoor, Maxwell, Ball, Lynch, Martin, Hudson - 10
On: Crisp, Greenwood, Varcoe, DeGoey, Maynard, Goodyear, Moore, Cox, Manteit, Abbott - 10

That changeover of players at the end of 2013 should be marked as the year our next premiership team was assembled. Every player - except maybe Armstrong - brought in will be key to our success.

 

[millsy29gopies]

Ceglar and Wellingham would.

Disagree. Ceglar is a good stop gap for the Hawks but he will never be a number 1 ruckman, Witts and Grundy are comfortably ahead of him. Wellingham might creep in but I'm more inclined to think we'd play youth as he has gone backwards in spades.

EDIT: Daisy would still get a game to be fair as much as I hate the bloke.


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[mike123]

Disagree. Ceglar is a good stop gap for the Hawks but he will never be a number 1 ruckman, Witts and Grundy are comfortably ahead of him. Wellingham might creep in but I'm more inclined to think we'd play youth as he has gone backwards in spades.

EDIT: Daisy would still get a game to be fair as much as I hate the bloke.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ceglar doesn't have to be a number one ruck, his shown he can be a capable forward to a better standard than Grundy and Witts and athleticaly is better than both as well. Witts and Grundy haven't had the competition Ceglar has had. Weather Ceglar is going to be a stop gap or a number one ruck is yet to be seen its to early for you to rule him out,

Wellingham hasn't gone backwards, the problem is he hasn't gone forward and has had his injury problems. He is only averaging two less possessions then when he was at his best and I'd suspect under our midfield he'd still be the same player he was. His a pretty balanced player, has a good inside/outside game very nice kick and has above average pace. If he was still here he'd be comfortable best 22 and I'd play him over Daisy. And with our crap delivery to our forwards we'd be mad not to play him.

 

[Kappa]

Interesting that 3 of our top 5 of our Best and Fairest in 2014 are either gone or recovering from an ACL

 

[TradeDraft]

Ceglar and Wellingham would.

Don’t think Wellingham would as he is not in the Best 22 of West Coast.

Ceglar be handy alongside Grundy and Witts

 

[mike123]

Don’t think Wellingham would as he is not in the Best 22 of West Coast.

Ceglar be handy alongside Grundy and Witts

He played more games at AFL than he did in the WAFL and has put on some good performances.

 

[Ricky90]

All I can ever think of when someone says "oh but Beams is gone, he was our best scoring midfielder" or "oh but Luke Ball is gone, he was our best in and under player" is that part in the movie Coach Carter where he kicks a couple of guys out of the team because they won't get on board with his plan - the rest of the playing group are pretty annoyed and someone says, "they were our leading point scorers last season!" and Coach Carter said, "well, looks like we'll have new leading point scorers this season."

I'm just as annoyed as anyone that Beams wanted out. Same scenario last year when Daisy left. But if they don't buy into the plan then what good are they anyway? We're good at developing guys to play to a good standard, so that's what we'll do. We got good currency for both Beams and Daisy, that won't be lost on the club. The right decisions are being made, and that couldn't please me any greater.

 

[noideaatall]

...
In respect to MGPs post, there has been a slight shift in trading but that's due to high draft picks we've gained for Dawes, Wellingham, Thomas and Beams. And we didn't trade any high picks for players like we did with Krakouer, Elliott, And Jolly.

Spot on. I like the outcome we are building in a style I've always wanted to see. Too often we have had a 'must win a premiership this year' attitude, at the cost of building a young, high quality list.

 

[jackcass]

That changeover of players at the end of 2013 should be marked as the year our next premiership team was assembled. Every player - except maybe Armstrong - brought in will be key to our success.

The Elliott, Witts, Williams adds in 2011 and the Broomhead, Kennedy, Grundy and Frost adds of 2012 will be handy but I agree 2013 intake will be telling.

I'm not an Armstrong fan and didn't think we should have recruited him but he's exceeded my expectations and even he will play a role in developing a squad for our next premiership tilt. Remember in 2010 Lockyer, Medhurst, O'Bree, Anthony, Davis, Presti, Fraser, and Rusling among others didn't play a role in GF2 but all had strong contributions throughout the season.

 

[jackcass]

Interesting that 3 of our top 5 of our Best and Fairest in 2014 are either gone or recovering from an ACL

So the top 5 in the 2015 will look a lot different.

 

[jmac70]

Interesting that 3 of our top 5 of our Best and Fairest in 2014 are either gone or recovering from an ACL

How is it interesting? Caff will be back, Beams will be missed and Herier won't be. Swan is ready to return to his best and we have a host of young guns itching to step up.

 

[ksardog]

Wellingham would be in our side, he has 2 things we lack in spades, pace and winning clear clearances ( not just scrubbing a kick forward, i mean running out of a contested pack )
Injuries have cost him at west coast ever since trampoline accident. A fit wellingham easily makes our side.

 

[jackcass]

Ceglar doesn't have to be a number one ruck, his shown he can be a capable forward to a better standard than Grundy and Witts and athleticaly is better than both as well. Witts and Grundy haven't had the competition Ceglar has had. Weather Ceglar is going to be a stop gap or a number one ruck is yet to be seen its to early for you to rule him out,

Wellingham hasn't gone backwards, the problem is he hasn't gone forward and has had his injury problems. He is only averaging two less possessions then when he was at his best and I'd suspect under our midfield he'd still be the same player he was. His a pretty balanced player, has a good inside/outside game very nice kick and has above average pace. If he was still here he'd be comfortable best 22 and I'd play him over Daisy. And with our crap delivery to our forwards we'd be mad not to play him.

You seriously need to start building some bridges...

Wellingham hasn't produced anything at WC to match his best games at the Pies. Yes, he's had injuries and he still may get there and potentially even find the consistency we all craved but time and history are against him. Happy that we've replaced him with Broomy given time. Yes I know we actually got Broomy and Ramsay for Dawes and Grundy for Wellingham but with 3 consecutive picks that's semantics.

Ceglar had his chances at the Pies, didn't take them. Happy that Grundy will be a better ruck given time. Witts to. Therefore he's competing for a 3rd tall forward so he's actually competing against White, Gault, Karnezis, Marsh and potentially Moore. Happy we've covered his loss among that group.

Overall, we're better placed longer term without Ceglar and Wellingham and it's hard to argue against that.

 

[mike123]

Wellingham hasn't produced anything at WC to match his best games at the Pies.

Should have seen him against Gold Coast going head to head with Ablett.

 

[Mkcaptain]

Wellingham seems to have gone backwards quite a bit. Maybe if he was still at the Pies his output would be higher.

 

[Kappa]

How is it interesting? Caff will be back, Beams will be missed and Herier won't be. Swan is ready to return to his best and we have a host of young guns itching to step up.

A guy top 5 in our BnF won't be missed?

That seems like an oxymoron to me, the whole point of the BnF is to show how valuable players are to the team

 

[jackcass]

Should have seen him against Gold Coast going head to head with Ablett.

I did, also saw him at the Pies going head to head with Ablett (when still at Geelong) when we absolutely flogged them, your point?

 

[frizzle]

You seriously need to start building some bridges...

Wellingham hasn't produced anything at WC to match his best games at the Pies. Yes, he's had injuries and he still may get there and potentially even find the consistency we all craved but time and history are against him. Happy that we've replaced him with Broomy given time. Yes I know we actually got Broomy and Ramsay for Dawes and Grundy for Wellingham but with 3 consecutive picks that's semantics.

Ceglar had his chances at the Pies, didn't take them. Happy that Grundy will be a better ruck given time. Witts to. Therefore he's competing for a 3rd tall forward so he's actually competing against White, Gault, Karnezis, Marsh and potentially Moore. Happy we've covered his lose among that group.

Overall, we're better placed longer term without Ceglar and Wellingham and it's hard to argue against that.

Great post. Couldn't agree more.