What voting Labour does!!!!

[Tim56]

What my farming, private school, conservative background - considering I now lean to the left.

Being coerced into signing an individual workplace agreement is actually illegal, but summing up the situation I felt that it was the actions of an over zealous individual rather than a push from the higher levels of the organisation. So I just refused to sign but didn't take any action.

Would you have gotten more or less on the individual contract?

You wouldn't find an education bureaucrat trying to pressure you into one here - the department is dominated by the union.

 

[hoss]

I believe that good Unions have their place. Ultimately, a union should just be the group of workers or employers. Unfortunately, a few people can get control and corrupt them. I'm happy with the unions that I belong to - and I'll tell them when I'm not.

I've seen what the old BLF did to my brother up in Broome when he was a labourer and didn't want to join up. No wonder he became a farmer. It was a very stressful time for him.

I would have been on slightly more pay had I signed an individual workplace agreement, but also would have had to give up certain rights I wasn't happy to. It was around the time of industrial relations reform / third wave in WA with Graham Kiereth. The govt ultimately hung themselves by going too far, too soon, and Kiereth lost his relatively safe seat. The govt went through a number of Education Ministers and CEO's at that time.

 

[1jasonoz]

Would you have gotten more or less on the individual contract?

.

Can't find the exact article, but the ABS i think released a finding that on average, employees on union EBA'S, get 10% more than employees on non-union AWA's.

In my industry, i get 30-40% more pay than those on an AWA, get 40% more superannuation, plus my other benefits that i get that they don't. Ive actually seen the company inform the employees on AWA's, that it would be seen in a good light by the company(come AWA renewal time) if they all took an 8% immediate pay cut. No pressure of course. But whilst they where being asked to tax the pay cut, i was getting a 3% pay rise, and the company was recording a record profit.

 

[1jasonoz]

I also briefly had a job on the docks where it was extremely clear, no ticket no start.

.

Just a question, where you one of the scabs who helped Patricks in breaking the law ,during Patricks illegal lockout of their employees?

 

[Tim56]

Just a question, where you one of the scabs who helped Patricks in breaking the law ,during Patricks illegal lockout of their employees?

Were you one of the people who wished to obtain employment and wages on your merits?

 

[bunsen burner]

Just a question, where you one of the scabs who helped Patricks in breaking the law ,during Patricks illegal lockout of their employees?

I'd never be a scab under any circumstances but the MUA needed to be taken down a notch.

 

[medusala]

Just a question, where you one of the scabs who helped Patricks in breaking the law ,during Patricks illegal lockout of their employees?

no it was in northern Tas and nothing to do with any strikes, it was just something over summer hols as a casual labourer. As much as I have no issue with "scabs" as you call them there is no way I would get involved in something like that given the physical violence that certain unions are capable of.

 

[1jasonoz]

Were you one of the people who wished to obtain employment and wages on your merits?

You mean supporting a company in breaking the law? Then once Patrciks had been found guilty of breaking the law, you where given the flick along with your fellow scabs?

 

[medusala]

You mean supporting a company in breaking the law? Then once Patrciks had been found guilty of breaking the law, you where given the flick along with your fellow scabs?

Unions regularly break the law and get nothing more than a slap over the wrist from the pathetic joke that is the IRC.

 

[1jasonoz]

Unions regularly break the law and get nothing more than a slap over the wrist from the pathetic joke that is the IRC.

Maybe because the Liberal government actually removed the right of the AIRC to actually enforce anything at all. Its the Howard government who has removed the power of the AIRC to make parties abide by their rulings, blame the Liberal government, not the AIRC, they can only work with the rules set down.

Also provide some proof of 'unions regulary break the law' tks.

 

[medusala]

Maybe because the Liberal government actually removed the right of the AIRC to actually enforce anything at all. Its the Howard government who has removed the power of the AIRC to make parties abide by their rulings, blame the Liberal government, not the AIRC, they can only work with the rules set down.

Also provide some proof of 'unions regulary break the law' tks.

There is no need for the IRC, the courts can sort it out. RE unions breaking the law, the most common examples in Melb are on construction sites, the CFMEU being the worst, even the union friendly Grollo had to take court action in the end. The employers always threaten to sue the union and officials but always back down. They are serial offenders. Not to mention Craig Johnston and his assorted AMWU thugs donning balaclavas and trashing the offices of skilled engineering and Johnson Tiles whilst threatening to beat the living crap out of its employees. Another serial offender and formerly holding a senior position in the union.

 

[Bombers 2003]

Always have been. Left wing whingers sh it me. The amount of crap they come out with on this board is astounding. Just have a look at the recent rantings of Lasher and the continuous crap spouted by Bombers 2003.

What do you hope to achieve by this comment?

There's a poll been done. The poll slants heavily in favour of a raving looney left wing orgy. There's more right wing nutcases than the poll suggests, but they don't seem to be as vocal (read whinge) as the left.

Well if we didnt have to put up with your moronic admiration for that pile of crap,John Winston Howard.

 

[bunsen burner]

Well if we didnt have to put up with your moronic admiration for that pile of crap,John Winston Howard.

Still having trouble accepting the election result are we?

 

[1jasonoz]

There is no need for the IRC, the courts can sort it out. RE unions breaking the law, the most common examples in Melb are on construction sites, the CFMEU being the worst, even the union friendly Grollo had to take court action in the end. The employers always threaten to sue the union and officials but always back down. They are serial offenders. Not to mention Craig Johnston and his assorted AMWU thugs donning balaclavas and trashing the offices of skilled engineering and Johnson Tiles whilst threatening to beat the living crap out of its employees. Another serial offender and formerly holding a senior position in the union.

So you believe the IRC has no role in the Australian IR system? So you beleive that the courts are the appropriate place for industrial matters to be sorted out? So you beleve that every individual should/can take an employer to court of the breach of their employment contract? How is an individual meant to afford the court costs, if they are complaining about their pay and conditions? Are they meant to find a magic pile of money to pay the lawyers etc, over the months or years they may have to wait to get an answer?

You complained that the IRC lets unions away with a slap on the hand for breaking the law, yet you didn't even know that its your Howard government that removed the power of the IRC to actually enforce anything .

So how many unions have been found 'regulary breaking the law', you provide 2 examples, one with no court finding to support your weak case, and the second where the person in question was thrown out of his position, because of his actions. If you want i can provide alot of cases of employers breaching their employee employment contracts, of employers who break the law and get away with it.

 

[Scorpio]

May I point out that Craig Johnston is currently serving 2 years in prison?

Apart from criminal conduct (as was the case there) the common law courts are very poor places for industrial disputes. The common law does not recognise collective agreements and they are therefore unenforceable in that forum. Also, normal commercial disputes are moving to be resolved more and more by mediation - I fail to see how this differs from what the State and Federal industrial tribunals have been doing for 100 years.

The other problem with common law courts is remedies - the only thing the Courts can do is to award damages - not a good remedy if your employer is locking you out.

They can award an injunction can't they?

 

[Contra Mundum]

interlocutory injunctions are an equitable remedy and they generally they do not award "specific performance" of employment contracts - in those circumstances injunctive relief is unlikely in employment disputes.

The injunctions in Patricks were statutory injunctions under s298K of the Workplace Relations Act. If the MUA had to rely on the common law they would have been cactus!

 

[Bombers 2003]

Still having trouble accepting the election result are we?

No.just that Howard is PM of Australia.